Radioactive Rock colecting.

[Seoul_lasers]

Love this thread. I've always been interested in minerals, as well as pure elements. I did not realize radioactive minerals had such a variety. Definitely have to look more into this. Thanks guys for the wonderful info!

Not only do Radioactive minerals come in various compositions and colors, they can also be extremely Radioactive in even small sized specimens.
If you're into Gamma spectroscopy, this stuff could be very interesting to look at from inside a lead castle with a CsI or NaI/Tl scintillation detector.

I believe the record holder is a piece of Uraninite with Barite that is from somewhere in the eastern US I had heard that from a 1m distance with a Beta Shield closed
it is over 500mR/hr (Gamma dose). This is from only a ~3Kg sample. Spectral analysis shows a significant amount of Radium in the Barite that is responsible for the excessively high counts. I believe in total exposure in a,B, and Y) is in order of several mSv/hr. (more 2.5x than your yearly dose of Radiation for the average person)
This the same ore that was mined during the 1930s and 40's for producing Radium paint for aircraft dials and markers.
:eg:

 

[T_Warne]

Some of those specimens are truly beautiful! I love that green fuzzy one.

Sorry if this is a little off topic and in the wrong area, but... would one of you guys be interested in an Onyx detector? I'm guessing you can appreciate it and put it to good use.
I participated in the Safecast Kickstarter campaign and bought it more as curiosity than anything. Ive played with it a little and now it just sits.


Here is the thread where it was discussed:
http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/safecast-kickstarter-open-source-geiger-counter-75069.html

Specifications
Detector: LND7317 Halogen-quenched Geiger-Mueller tube. Effective diameter 1.75″ (45 mm). Mica window density 1.5-2.0 mg/cm²; Detects Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and X-radiation
Display: 128×128 color OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode)
Operating Range: µSv/hr: .000 to 1,000, µR/hr: .000 to 10,000, CPM: 0 to 350,000
Accuracy: ± 10% typical; ±15% maximum
Alert Range: 0 to 99,999 CPM; Beeper sounds the alert when warning level feature is activated
Anti-Saturation: Readout holds at full scale in fields up to 100 times the maximum reading
Audio: Beeper chirps with each count when Geiger Beep function is activated
Averaging: Accumulate/Average feature builds average over time when activated
Certifications: CE Certified: Emissions: EN 55011:2009 + A1:2010 (Class B emissions limits); EN 61000-4-2:1995 (ESD); EN61000-4-3:1997. RoHS Compliant, Meets WEEE standards
Count Light: Red LED flashes with each count
Calibration: Cesium-137 (gamma from daughter metastable Barium)
Gamma Sensitivity: 334 CPM per µSv/hr (3340 CPM per mR/hr) referenced to Cs-137
Efficiency: For 2 pi Geometry (typical Efficiencies, primary emissions noted)
Manual: ONYX Operation Manual
Options: USB cable, charger and carrying case available
Ports: Output: Stereo 3.5 mm jack sends pulses to Safecast iPhone application
Power: One 3.7 V Lithium Ion battery
Size: 130 x 660 x 230 mm (5.1 x 2.6 x 0.9 inches)
Temperature Range: -20º to +50º C , -4º to +122º F
Timer: Can set sampling periods of 1 minute to 40 hours.
Weight: 200 grams (7 oz) including battery

The ONYX retails for $750. I got it through kickstarter for $400 and I'm asking $375. Shot me a PM if you are interested.

 

[joeyss]

Not only do Radioactive minerals come in various compositions and colors, they can also be extremely Radioactive in even small sized specimens.
If you're into Gamma spectroscopy, this stuff could be very interesting to look at from inside a lead castle with a CsI or NaI/Tl scintillation detector.

I believe the record holder is a piece of Uraninite with Barite that is from somewhere in the eastern US I had heard that from a 1m distance with a Beta Shield closed
it is over 500mR/hr (Gamma dose). This is from only a ~3Kg sample. Spectral analysis shows a significant amount of Radium in the Barite that is responsible for the excessively high counts. I believe in total exposure in a,B, and Y) is in order of several mSv/hr. (more 2.5x than your yearly dose of Radiation for the average person)
This the same ore that was mined during the 1930s and 40's for producing Radium paint for aircraft dials and markers.
:eg:

did you ever try and see if it makes glow in the dark phosphor glow?

 

[Seoul_lasers]

did you ever try and see if it makes glow in the dark phosphor glow?

Not my sample. :wave:

At the Radiation levels present around this mineral specimen, you would probably see a very bright blue glow or intense flashes from ZnS/Ag coated paper from the Alpha alone.

 

[weirdmeister]

But only very weak because the radioactive particle and the glowing particle must be together as near as possible...thats why the vintage radium paint was milled very very fine ...nowadays in all vintage clocks the paint is burned out from the alpha emission ..even when you hold strong uraninite in front of it

 

[Seoul_lasers]

But only very weak because the radioactive particle and the glowing particle must be together as near as possible...thats why the vintage radium paint was milled very very fine ...nowadays in all vintage clocks the paint is burned out from the alpha emission ..even when you hold strong uraninite in front of it

:thinking: The sample I am referring to is +1mSv on contact, the ZnS/Ag scintillation screen would glow very brightly in this kind of field regardless of a, B or y Radiation. You can excite ZnS/Ag even with weak X-rays.

clarification : Radium paint was a fine powder because it was extracted from Barite located in and around Uranium deposits. BaSO4 (Barite) --- Barium is above Radium in the periodic table and when it is formed around Uranium ore/or close to, Radium often replaces the Barium in small amounts producing BaRaSO4, making it strongly Radioactive. Of course there are samples like the one I mentioned that contain a great deal of Radium making it exceedingly dangerous to be close to.
It would take 1000's of tonnes of RadianBarite to produce even a tiny amount of usable Radium.
Extraction methods often used HCl / and or H2SO4 to process Uraninite rich in barite.

Read below.

Radium, a highly radioactive, brilliant-white metallic element that is produced by the natural disintegration of another element, uranium. The discovery of radium in 1898 was a landmark in the history of physics, for it stimulated further research into the nature of the atom.

Radium has been used in medicine as a source of radiation to treat certain types of malignant growths such as cancer. In industry, the radiation given off by radium can be used in examining materials for flaws by obtaining images like those obtained with X rays. Mixed with zinc sulfide, radium forms a luminous paint once used on the dials of watches, clocks, and other instruments. However, other radioisotopes have largely replaced radium for most purposes because they are cheaper to produce, easier to work with, and safer to use.

Radiation given off by radium either destroys living cells or injures them severely. This property makes radium extremely dangerous to handle, but it also accounts for radium's usefulness in the treatment of cancer. If ingested, radium will become deposited in the bones and, in time, will cause damage to body tissues.

Radium emits alpha particles, beta particles, and gamma rays. An alpha particle is the nucleus, or core, of a helium atom. A beta particle is an electron emitted from the nucleus of an atom. Gamma rays are similar to highly penetrating X rays. Radiation emitted by radium makes certain substances, such as diamonds and zinc sulfide, fluoresce (glow). The heat produced by the radiation makes radium a little warmer than its surroundings.

Radium has a half-life of 1,620 years (meaning that one ounce of radium is reduced by radioactive decay to one-half an ounce in 1,620 years). Radium decays to form radon, a radioactive gas. Radon decays to form another radioactive substance, which produces still another radioactive substance, and so on until finally lead is produced.

Sources and Extraction of Radium
Radium is present in tiny amounts in seawater and in most of the earth's rocks. Its chief sources are pitchblende and other ores of its mother element, uranium. The principal sources have been mines in the Czech Republic, Canada, and Zaire.

The first steps in extracting radium from uranium ore are to crush the ore and dissolve it with sulfuric acid. This process yields a precipitate (solid residue) containing radium salts, barium salts, and other compounds. The precipitate is treated with carbonates, hydrochloric acid, and other chemicals to produce a solution of radium bromide and barium bromide. The radium bromide is concentrated by a process involving crystallization and filtration.

There has been little or no production of radium since the early 1960's. Although the total output of radium since its discovery has been only a few pounds, much of this is still in existence and is expected to fulfill all future demands.

History of Radium Research
Radium was discovered by Marie and Pierre Curie in Paris in 1898. Earlier that year they had discovered a new element, polonium, in pitchblende. Working with an assistant, G. Bmont, they then found that there was another, more radioactive, element in pitchblende—radium. They isolated a radium salt in December, 1898.

After years of arduous and dangerous labor, during which they processed tons of pitchblende, the Curies isolated 1/10 of a gram of radium chloride. Pure radium was not isolated until 1910, when Marie Curie obtained it from molten radium chloride.

The danger of radium radiation was not understood at first. In 1901, however, Henri Becquerel suffered a burn from carrying a piece of radium salt in his watch pocket. Pierre Curie then deliberately burned himself to learn the effects of radium on the body. His report immediately suggested to doctors that radium, by destroying cells, might be useful in the treatment of cancer.

Symbol: Ra. Atomic number: 88. Atomic weight: 226.0254. Melting point: 1,292. (700C). Specific gravity: 5. Valence: +2. Half-life: 1,620 years. Radium belongs to Group IIA of the Periodic Table.

 

[weirdmeister]

i must test this to believe

you know a source for this paper?

i only found this:

2? Round ZNS AG Over Thin Film Mylar for Alpha Radiation Detection | eBay

 

[Seoul_lasers]

i must test this to believe

you know a source for this paper?

i only found this:

2? Round ZNS AG Over Thin Film Mylar for Alpha Radiation Detection | eBay

Yes that'll do, thought this is meant for Scintillation detectors ( for coupling to PMTs for Alpha detection)

or you could go with

New Spinthariscope Experimenter's Kit Ore Geigerscope 3 Day Sale | eBay


George Dowell owns the last eBay store and carries all sorts of interesting items. It is also not as expensive as the first item.

You're going to need a very active source to be able to see much in the way of light output from this screen.

Demo of the material here using a USB webcam and a 120uCi Am241 test source.
What is being seen is pure Gamma on the screen. Surface activity is about ~ 47.8mR/hr on a Gamma/beta only 6993 GM tube. 3rd black picture is the webcam exposure.

http://laserpointerforums.com/f60/putting-together-gamma-spectrometer-using-soft-mca-93015.html

 

[Sigurthr]

Regarding spinthariscopes and radioluminescence; I've heard that the phosphor used in Tritium (H3) lamps can be coupled to a high activity alpha source such as Ra or Am and will yield a long life radioluminescent lamp which won't suffer phosphor burnout like the old radium paints. Not willing to sacrifice my lamp to test it though, nor would I want to break the hermetic seal on my radium sample.

Still others report that pure white phosphorus can be mixed with Ra ore to yield luminescence. Haven't seen any proof of such though.

 

[Seoul_lasers]

Regarding spinthariscopes and radioluminescence; I've heard that the phosphor used in Tritium (H3) lamps can be coupled to a high activity alpha source such as Ra or Am and will yield a long life radioluminescent lamp which won't suffer phosphor burnout like the old radium paints. Not willing to sacrifice my lamp to test it though, nor would I want to break the hermetic seal on my radium sample.

Still others report that pure white phosphorus can be mixed with Ra ore to yield luminescence. Haven't seen any proof of such though.

T3 nightlights/beta lights are (green colored ones) are coated with ZnS/Cu and because they are being bombarded with Beta (electrons) they don't suffer from damage like they would from Alpha excitement.
Other colors ( red/pink) Rely on Europium salts and newer ones relying heavily on Lanthanum Barium Silicate Nitride -- (LaBaSiO3N).

I'd really hate to be in a room where someone mixed white Phosphorus and Radium together. :beer:

Actually I've heard old "stories" of Radium rich Barite ore that emitted a it's own fuzzy blue glow and gave of a strong smell of ozone found in Uraninite rich mineralization inside mines. There are documented reports explaining that high grade R.Barite could contain up to 0.85g per kg of barite. This kind of content would be strong enough to discolor the boxes used to transport the ore in.

In similar fashion to the below picture of a Alpha burn of a static master brush box

 

[joeyss]

T3 nightlights/beta lights are (green colored ones) are coated with ZnS/Cu and because they are being bombarded with Beta (electrons) they don't suffer from damage like they would from Alpha excitement.
Other colors ( red/pink) Rely on Europium salts and newer ones relying heavily on Lanthanum Barium Silicate Nitride -- (LaBaSiO3N).

I'd really hate to be in a room where someone mixed white Phosphorus and Radium together. :beer:

Actually I've heard old "stories" of Radium rich Barite ore that emitted a it's own fuzzy blue glow and gave of a strong smell of ozone found in Uraninite rich mineralization inside mines. There are documented reports explaining that high grade R.Barite could contain up to 0.85g per kg of barite. This kind of content would be strong enough to discolor the boxes used to transport the ore in.

In similar fashion to the below picture of a Alpha burn of a static master brush box

That alpha burn looks alot what my UVC lamp does to paper and Styrofoam.

Don't ever let light leak out of a UVC enclosure.