Military coup in Turkey.

[CurtisOliver]

:wtf: What is going on with the world at the moment. It was messed up before, but is getting worse.
As for North Korea, they have been confirmed to having fission bombs but not to having thermonuclear's.

 

[Benm]

A nuclear bomb could be deliverd by truck or ship indeed, but it would not be extremely effective fired from ground level. Let me be clear that it would still be the most deadly terrorist attack in history, but the deadly blast radius would be a city center, not an entire metropolitan area like a detonation at altitude.

If north korea actually has a well working fission bomb that would be quite worrysome if it was a plutionium device. I presume it's just a uranium gun type that fuses 2 critical masses by blasting one into the other.

The difference is important: with a spherical implosion design like western plutonium bomb building the rest of a thermonuclear weapon (teller-ulam design or such) is NOT the difficult part. The uranium-gun type atomic bomb is too large to fit well in such a design and it's probably not very feasible.

Not that uranium-gun type bombs cannot do great damage when set off at altitude, the first ever 'little boy' nuke was of this type and killed over 50.000 people instantly.

 

[Pi R Squared]

I think you underestimate the power of nuclear weapons, even the low yield ones, and you underestimate the North Koreans.
North Korea nuclear tests: what did they achieve? - BBC News
Maybe you just don't want to believe it's true.

Alan

 

[Dreadnought]

I have worked with my friend who has a Phd in History, and we have determined that this coup is most likely fake. Firstly, let's look at the other coups which occurred in Turkey. These coups are vastly different than the coup which just occurred, more military would have been in the operation and also would have taken over their parliament first instead of a bridge and then their telecommunications, and still leaving one out which conveniently the Dictator used to tell his sheep to go on the streets. I mean, firstly there would be a LOT more men if this was a coup. Judging by the figures, the General who controlled the soldiers for the coup uses around 10,000 or 100,000 soldiers (I think) and yet only 3000 went? That's absurd.

Moving on, this was something which really irked me. The soldiers were arrested by POLICE; something which no soldier would allow in the usual circumstance. After all, the soldiers have a lot more power than the police who puts handcuffs on the soldiers and yet the soldiers have the power to do something more, with all of that training. Secondly, we have the Dictator enter Istanbul JUST after there is a coup; wouldn't you think that it's too risky for him to go to somewhere where there is still fighting, he would have most likely died but CONVENIENTLY nothing even happened. Also, all of the people who were standing in front of the tanks would usually get run over, but did not and you can see how badly they have been brainwashed if they risked their lives for some Islamist Dictator. Also, the most logical thing they would do is to cut the head off the snake (Erdogan the Dictator) and yet they did not.

This was definitely fake, and was most likely used to prop up more power for the Dictator because he is a greedy, egomaniac person who wants more power and to turn Turkey into his pet islam project, which him being the 'Caliph'. Also, for some idiotic reason; he called for Fethullah Gulen to be deported with zero proof and most likely to get rid of his political opponent.

It really does annoy me how some people are so blind about this Dictator, even though he rigs the elections to give him an advantage (Power cuts with votes being stolen and villagers being bribed with coal). They hold him in such high regard, that he pretty much overrules Ataturk which is probably one of the most influential person in the whole of Turkey. These sheep will do anything for Erdogan, and eventually they will come to regret their mistake when it's too late to do anything. They don't even care when he tries to bring back the Death Penalty, which is sick and prevents them from EVER entering the EU.

I see a very dark future ahead for Turkey, and unless something happens to stop Erdogan trying to get more power but I doubt this will happen. He is the modern day Hitler/Stalin and knows how to manipulate his myrmidon followers. Unbelievable how a country which was reasonably democratic and stable has now turned into something like this? I worry for the future for Turkey and what Erdogan might do to it.

It was an undemocratic coup, against a increasingly undemocratic dictator. Pick your side.

(Also, this was my first post from my inactivity, I took a break from LPF.)

-Dreadnought

 

[Pi R Squared]

The caliphate (ISIS) will probably fall, but another will rise in its place, they just need the right leader. I doubt that would be Erdogan, but keep a close watch. When it happens it will rise to a major world power, we are talking about quite a large population. Those of you in Europe especially had better watch your back. If you don't, then this is what you can expect one day.

Alan

 

[CurtisOliver]

The caliphate (ISIS) will probably fall, but another will rise in its place, they just need the right leader. I doubt that would be Erdogan, but keep a close watch. When it happens it will rise to a major world power, we are talking about quite a large population. Those of you in Europe especially had better watch your back. If you don't, then this is what you can expect one day.

You are right, there is always another group to fill the gap. Don't worry I think Europe is watching their back. Most of Europe is on high alert at the moment.

 

[RedCowboy]

Turkey can build their own weapons, Pakistan and Egypt are also quite technically capable, they are all Muslim. They all buy our weapons, and remember we found Bin Laden in Pakistan. Turkey is part of NATO and Sharia Law is about to be reinstated. WHAT???

Here's the problem, Erdogan no longer respects Turkeys separation of church and state, they are not a democracy anymore, Erdogan is a hardline Islamic Dictator and is putting the Islamic church in charge of the military.

The military did not want to hurt the people, but the people answered Erdogan call to the streets, this is the strength of numbers, masses of citizens content with the status quo stood against the coup as did Erdogan police.

This is a major problem, ISIS will move right into Turkey, we need to get our nukes the hell out of Turkey before they get absorbed.

Why the hell are we taking in Syrian refugees?

Why the hell did Barry give Iran 150 Billion and a highway to the bomb?

Trukeys military was supposed to protect democracy, not all stood, about 2000 troops, the Turkish people choked the streets and shut it down.

ISIS just got a lot stronger, we are told they are shrinking and may lash out with some terror attacks, YEA, this is getting worse, these are not just medieval sandboxes, these are modern technological military powers with NATO weapons.

WTF are we doing?

What's next? Sharia Law in America?

 

[Benm]

If another islamic state spawns with major public support we may deal with that differently. So far we have treated ISIS like a terrorist group that is to be eradicated with a minimum number of civilian casualties as these civilians are commonly portrayed as victims of ISIS themselves.

This view may change when there are clear signs the population supports it, opening the option of full-on bombing of cities and such.

The fight against ISIS is so slow because sparing citizens is a major concern now. Without that leveling a city like Raqqa, killing a significant percentage of inhabitants, would be a 24 hour job at most.

It would be very problematic if it spread to Turkish soil though, as the country is a nato member and cannot be attacked by coalition forces like that. It seems there is no formal mechanism to throw a country out of nato either, though that could be revised

 

[Alaskan]

So sad to see this happening in Turkey, I know Istanbul well, having been there a half dozen times for two weeks at a time on vacation. Makes this whole thing far more real to me as well as tragic. With all of the people being arrested, this guy probably doesn't understand how many lives that 20,000 people affect, probably a million, or even millions due to all of the social connections. This may bring him into troubles he wouldn't have had otherwise just from that alone.

 

[Benm]

Well yeah, and that might become a problem.

Having a mock coupe to randomly arrest people that may not agree with you fully can work. I can also seriously backfire and result in an actual coup supported by the remaining military and the public as they see innocent friends and relatives imprisoned without charge (as is now possible in turkey for 30 days). Closing universities, restricting academia and further curtailing press will likely not make things better.

As Turkey has, mostly for silly reasons, blocked access to facebook, twitter etc in recent years it's likely many people know how to circumvent those blockades by now.

Personally I don't think removing Erdogan by force would be such a bad idea, the whole islamisation and power pulling is against the constitution of Turkey, which the army tends to try to maintain.

In a few years Turkey will either be an islamic state under Erdogan rule, or secular once again under military rule and eventually a newly elected president.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

Certainly hope for secular rule. The fact that Turkey is not a member of the trade agreements act is causing me a few headaches today.

Does appear to have been a completely staged coup, with teachers and reporters now getting rounded up too. I hope their military proceeds with an actual coup soon otherwise it will be another islamic state, with edrogan as a for life ruler. That there are nukes and US hardware there could be very problematic and another military engagement for the US.

 

[diachi]

Certainly hope for secular rule. The fact that Turkey is not a member of the trade agreements act is causing me a few headaches today.

Does appear to have been a completely staged coup, with teachers and reporters now getting rounded up too. I hope their military proceeds with an actual coup soon otherwise it will be another islamic state, with edrogan as a for life ruler. That there are nukes and US hardware there could be very problematic and another military engagement for the US.

Then there's this: Turkey investigates those who say coup attempt was hoax - News from Al Jazeera

Just makes it seem even more like a false flag IMO...

Wouldn't worry too much about the Nukes - at the very least, they can't arm them so they can't detonate them. It'd be suicide to even try. Don't imagine the US would be too pleased... Would be good to avoid another conflict in the region though.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I'm not worried about the nukes themselves so much, as I am that it creates the perfect pretext to the US getting involved there, which I categorically do not want.

That article... it seems things are somewhat worse than I expected. Definite across the board crackdown happening.

 

[diachi]

I'm not worried about the nukes themselves so much, as I am that it creates the perfect pretext to the US getting involved there, which I categorically do not want.

That article... it seems things are somewhat worse than I expected. Definite across the board crackdown happening.

Yeah, last thing we need is another conflict... Hopefully no nukes go "missing" - wouldn't be the first time...

Hopefully the situation there doesn't get any worse. My friend is on vacation there at the moment ... don't know why, I'd be avoiding the whole region just now.

 

[InfinitusEquitas]

I considered it as vacation spot actually. It's very cheap, has nice places to visit, but yeah, given recent events I'll steer clear.

 

[diachi]

I considered it as vacation spot actually. It's very cheap, has nice places to visit, but yeah, given recent events I'll steer clear.

Yeah, under normal circumstances it'd make a great vacation spot.