Antharak
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FrozenGate by Avery
Just if you may be one who still thinks it's a joke.
- Thread starter Antharak
- Start date
I'm glad that there were other reasons such as his past criminal record that went into the sentencing. If he got 14 years just for pointing a laser at a helicopter when there were no significant problems caused, that would have been an extreme travesty of justice. That said, it is extremely stupid to point any laser at an aircraft.
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This article displeases me greatly.
His past history should not have factored in, if he did his time for the crimes he committed before, then he should not have to do time for them again, and that's exactly what is happening here. It's worse than double jeopardy, because unlike double jeopardy there is no possibility of challenging it in court. Nice loophole to avoid the Fifth Amendment, and of course it goes right over the general public's heads.
If the lasing incident caused "no significant problems" then fine the idiot 500 bucks and be done with it. Tack on restitution for an eye exam for the pilots and other expenses if need be. If it did cause "significant problems" then sentence based on the true and actual facts, and NOT the sensationalist hype.
"His past history" is a straw man, nothing more, dug up, woven and spun to justify one thing only, which is GIVING HIM THE MAX, no matter what, for no other reason than to convince us that these law enforcement thugs are necessary. It's a straight-up, no-holds-barred violation of both the Fifth and Eighth amendments and the public is too stupid to question (or even notice) it.
Oh, and cue the usual government lies and propaganda, no article on this subject is complete without some of that. "Lasing an aircraft can be fatal for the crew/passengers!" Except, it's never happened. Not once, ever, anywhere. Why is that? Hey, U.S. attorney and trigger-happy LEO goons, please explain to me this discrepancy between the government claims and the objective facts. But of course, they won't, because they know it's nothing but a pack of lies.
And I just love the line "we seek to send these people to prison." Durka-durk, of course they do, it's their JOB to send people to prison. They will send whomever they need to, for whatever reason they need to, in order to continue drawing a paycheck. The Constitution must really chap these goons' and attorneys' asses if they're willing to go through such lengths to get around it. They'd send people to prison for owning a gun or criticizing the government if they could get away with it. How many people they send to prison is the only metric of success they consider. Whatever puts food in their little bastards' mouths I guess, but it's completely dishonest and reprehensible.
Here's another bogus phrase, "the permissible emission power level for handheld laser devices." I'm sorry, but I do believe that if the handheld device is fully FDA compliant there is no upper, "permissible", limit. And of course, mere possession isn't prohibited by any federal statute. But, the idiot public doesn't know that, do they?
This is a meaningless, BS term to put it into the public's mind that ALL laser pointers other than MAYBE keychain and radio shack pointers are ALREADY illegal. Oh, and THIRTEEN TIMES the supposed limit, so scary! But wait, they never said what that limit is, because it doesn't exist! Call that laser pointer exactly what it is: a non-FDA compliant laser product. The level of contempt these goons have for us is astounding and yet again the general public is too stupid to question.
But that's a perfect example of HYPE! Non-FDA compliant laser product, big whoop, who cares. But, THIRTEEN TIMES THE LEGAL LIMIT, OH SWEET JESUS! BLATANT propaganda, hype and outright lies. A flagrant display of UTTER contempt for the people and for the truth.
Almost 4000 laser "attacks" and not one single plane crash. Not one single life lost. Here's an idea for the government goons: Target something else that ACTUALLY DOES KILL people. How about DRUNK DRIVING? What about SMOKING CIGARETTES? Those things kill tens of thousands every year, don't they? Oh, but wait, we need those alcohol and tobacco tax dollars, don't we?
Hey, how about addressing the problem of low-income people living without health insurance, which according to a recent Harvard study is a contributing factor to 40,000+ deaths every year? Oh, wait, if we did that then Rich Dick Exec might not be able to buy a Congressman this year. Besides, low-income people don't pay a lot of taxes anyway, and they consume lots of welfare and other social services besides. They make the government no money, and as such they're expendable.
Nah, just "get tough" on the lasers and anyone who happens to be dumb enough to point one at a plane. It's a really convenient paycheck cash cow for government employees who know that they are useless and destructive. It's convenient because a) they have no advocates to speak up on their behalf; and b) they don't make the government and/or or business executives any money, and c) the idiot public doesn't really understand lasers very well, so they will believe whatever lies they're told.
Once the goons get lasers banned and celebrate their victory and have their obligatory media-spotlight circle jerk, they will just persecute and scapegoat something else. It's how these vultures operate. They'll choose something that makes the government no money, and which has little to no advocacy in its defense. Bonus points if it's something esoteric or "extreme". Meanwhile, drunk drivers, tobacco companies, and lack of insurance for the poor will still be killing people left and right. But because there's PROFIT to be had in the alcohol and tobacco businesses, and the insurance racket, nothing will be done to stop them.
That went on way longer than I planned but follow the tax revenue. Look at the numbers. If it makes the government money, then it will be defended, and the dead be damned. If it doesn't, then it's fair game for the vultures to pick at until there's nothing left.
His past history should not have factored in, if he did his time for the crimes he committed before, then he should not have to do time for them again, and that's exactly what is happening here. It's worse than double jeopardy, because unlike double jeopardy there is no possibility of challenging it in court. Nice loophole to avoid the Fifth Amendment, and of course it goes right over the general public's heads.
If the lasing incident caused "no significant problems" then fine the idiot 500 bucks and be done with it. Tack on restitution for an eye exam for the pilots and other expenses if need be. If it did cause "significant problems" then sentence based on the true and actual facts, and NOT the sensationalist hype.
"His past history" is a straw man, nothing more, dug up, woven and spun to justify one thing only, which is GIVING HIM THE MAX, no matter what, for no other reason than to convince us that these law enforcement thugs are necessary. It's a straight-up, no-holds-barred violation of both the Fifth and Eighth amendments and the public is too stupid to question (or even notice) it.
Oh, and cue the usual government lies and propaganda, no article on this subject is complete without some of that. "Lasing an aircraft can be fatal for the crew/passengers!" Except, it's never happened. Not once, ever, anywhere. Why is that? Hey, U.S. attorney and trigger-happy LEO goons, please explain to me this discrepancy between the government claims and the objective facts. But of course, they won't, because they know it's nothing but a pack of lies.
And I just love the line "we seek to send these people to prison." Durka-durk, of course they do, it's their JOB to send people to prison. They will send whomever they need to, for whatever reason they need to, in order to continue drawing a paycheck. The Constitution must really chap these goons' and attorneys' asses if they're willing to go through such lengths to get around it. They'd send people to prison for owning a gun or criticizing the government if they could get away with it. How many people they send to prison is the only metric of success they consider. Whatever puts food in their little bastards' mouths I guess, but it's completely dishonest and reprehensible.
Here's another bogus phrase, "the permissible emission power level for handheld laser devices." I'm sorry, but I do believe that if the handheld device is fully FDA compliant there is no upper, "permissible", limit. And of course, mere possession isn't prohibited by any federal statute. But, the idiot public doesn't know that, do they?
This is a meaningless, BS term to put it into the public's mind that ALL laser pointers other than MAYBE keychain and radio shack pointers are ALREADY illegal. Oh, and THIRTEEN TIMES the supposed limit, so scary! But wait, they never said what that limit is, because it doesn't exist! Call that laser pointer exactly what it is: a non-FDA compliant laser product. The level of contempt these goons have for us is astounding and yet again the general public is too stupid to question.But that's a perfect example of HYPE! Non-FDA compliant laser product, big whoop, who cares. But, THIRTEEN TIMES THE LEGAL LIMIT, OH SWEET JESUS! BLATANT propaganda, hype and outright lies. A flagrant display of UTTER contempt for the people and for the truth.
Almost 4000 laser "attacks" and not one single plane crash. Not one single life lost. Here's an idea for the government goons: Target something else that ACTUALLY DOES KILL people. How about DRUNK DRIVING? What about SMOKING CIGARETTES? Those things kill tens of thousands every year, don't they? Oh, but wait, we need those alcohol and tobacco tax dollars, don't we?
Hey, how about addressing the problem of low-income people living without health insurance, which according to a recent Harvard study is a contributing factor to 40,000+ deaths every year? Oh, wait, if we did that then Rich Dick Exec might not be able to buy a Congressman this year. Besides, low-income people don't pay a lot of taxes anyway, and they consume lots of welfare and other social services besides. They make the government no money, and as such they're expendable.
Nah, just "get tough" on the lasers and anyone who happens to be dumb enough to point one at a plane. It's a really convenient paycheck cash cow for government employees who know that they are useless and destructive. It's convenient because a) they have no advocates to speak up on their behalf; and b) they don't make the government and/or or business executives any money, and c) the idiot public doesn't really understand lasers very well, so they will believe whatever lies they're told.
Once the goons get lasers banned and celebrate their victory and have their obligatory media-spotlight circle jerk, they will just persecute and scapegoat something else. It's how these vultures operate. They'll choose something that makes the government no money, and which has little to no advocacy in its defense. Bonus points if it's something esoteric or "extreme". Meanwhile, drunk drivers, tobacco companies, and lack of insurance for the poor will still be killing people left and right. But because there's PROFIT to be had in the alcohol and tobacco businesses, and the insurance racket, nothing will be done to stop them.
That went on way longer than I planned but follow the tax revenue. Look at the numbers. If it makes the government money, then it will be defended, and the dead be damned. If it doesn't, then it's fair game for the vultures to pick at until there's nothing left.
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I assume when they say 13 times the permissible limit, they mean 65mW. all but one of my units are stronger than that. one was over 600 times. so what? I pretty much agree with marco polo, again. this is just them making example of someone to make it look like they are doing something to crack down on this over-hyped danger which has killed far less people than even other over-hyped dangers, like west nile virus, which despite being far less dangerous than the medi would have us believe, did actually manage to kill at least a few people
I'd already decided not to use my units around populated areas long ago, but this cash incentive to turn people in gives me one more reason not to. I'm sure that in every case the person making the call will make 100% sure that the person with the laser actually did target an aircraft. surely no one would make something like that up just for $10,000, right?
I'd already decided not to use my units around populated areas long ago, but this cash incentive to turn people in gives me one more reason not to. I'm sure that in every case the person making the call will make 100% sure that the person with the laser actually did target an aircraft. surely no one would make something like that up just for $10,000, right?
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NKO29
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I cannot agree with past actions not mattering. People fuck up sometimes, but when people fuck up too many times, enough is enough. While no plane has crashed from being shone with a laser, the risk of killing hundreds of people is still there. This individual obviously has no respect for other people, so IMO keep him away from people who want to live happily.
Antharak
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This was the part that got me, " for aiming a laser pointer at Fresno police helicopter Air 1, and attempting to interfere with its operation". This alone is enough to warrant a harsh sentence, but not 14 years. As for this reward for tips, that really makes me angry as now the incentive is there for any one to report you for just pointing a laser into the night sky. I also don't bring my lasers outside any more as I live in an urban area.
Overall this just plain sucks.
Ed
Overall this just plain sucks.
Ed
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Thing is, the general public doesn't know enough to figure out even that much. Most of them would take one look at 21 CFR 1040.10 and .11 and decide that it's way over their heads, totally incomprehensible, and then go do something else.
The problem is in how the government goon worded it. "Permissible limit." This wording implies that there exists a maximum output power beyond which owning or operating a laser is no longer permitted. Most people will equate "not permitted" with "criminal offense." The general public will just take that at face value, and with that in mind, will assume that any "bright laser beam" they see is illegal, that the person using it is committing a crime, and that they therefore must have malicious intent. Throw in a $10,000 bribe for the reporter and of course they will happily embellish their story.
And then the goon squad will come and "investigate" the report. They'll look up whatever records they need to (commercial airline flight schedules, locally filed flight plans, anything) to show that there was some aircraft in the general vicinity, which they will spin until they have "proven" the allegations. If they can get in contact with one of the pilots and coerce him to testify (via bogus threats of "obstruction of justice" or similar) then so much the better.
Another person goes to jail, another propaganda-ridden news article gets published, and the goons get to slap each other on the ass for another job well done. And then they'll go pick up another paycheck.
Oh, but no, you have to be CONVICTED by a jury of your peers? Right? Hate to break it to you, but your peers are fscking imbeciles who know nothing about lasers, and even less about the relevant laws. You're in court, you had a laser in your possession, and there happened to be an aircraft operating in the area. Guilty as charged. "Innocent until proven guilty" ? The jury of your peers will not know enough to question the evidence they've seen, even though it's a near total fabrication. Guilty as charged.
There is no "permissible limit", it doesn't exist. The term is completely bogus. There is no law forbidding the possession of lasers of any power, it simply doesn't exist. But the idiot general public doesn't know that, and they aren't smart enough, or interested enough, to actually read up on the law and educate themselves on the truth.
Honestly, you're probably better off firing a loaded gun into the air in random directions. Gunshots are so commonplace in cities that a lot of people won't bother to report at all, and if somebody does, what are the police going to investigate? "I heard some gunshots" ? Just a bunch of street hoodlums, nothing else to see here. Oh, and reporting gunshots doesn't carry a $10,000 reward.
Antharak said:
He pointed a laser at a helicopter. That is a fact.
"Attempting to interfere with its operation"? Please cite the section in the article where the goons justify this INTERPRETATION of the guy's "intent". You can't do it, because that section doesn't exist. It's just more spin, another bogus statement, by government goons who have been proven to distort the truth and blatantly lie, again and again. Even if the guy did "interfere", I don't think he guy had any "intent" at all, because the guy probably didn't think that far ahead. Idiots like him don't think about what they're doing. While that is a problem, it's not "intent", it is recklessness, and the two are not the same.
Personally I think the days of the laser hobby are numbered, the goons will tear it down piece by piece, milking it for all they can, before nothing is left and then they will find something else. Model rockets? Hell no, that's a DANGEROUS MISSILE that can SHOOT DOWN A PLANE and the people launching them are TERRORISTS. You get the idea.
If anyone would put it past them to spin something like that, well then I'd love to know who your dealer is.
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my point was they make a 65mW laser sound so bad by calling it 13 times the permissibe limit. I agree with you it's a tactic they use, we all know lasers above 5mW are not illegal to own here, just to sell. my point is that if it happened to be me they wanted to make example of, that figure could be over 600 times, very very scary.
sure 13 times the permissible limit will scare people stupid much more than saying 65mW, which to many here is a relatively weak laser, still deserving of respect, but really, just 65mW.
clearly lasers should not be pointed at aircraft, but the reaction is disproportionate to the danger most of the time I think
good point about the gunshot thing. I don't really live in a city but I do hear them from time to time. never called the cops about it once
sure 13 times the permissible limit will scare people stupid much more than saying 65mW, which to many here is a relatively weak laser, still deserving of respect, but really, just 65mW.
clearly lasers should not be pointed at aircraft, but the reaction is disproportionate to the danger most of the time I think
good point about the gunshot thing. I don't really live in a city but I do hear them from time to time. never called the cops about it once
I don't want to start a flame war, but I do want to point out a few news stories:
US: Dallas medic in helicopter suffers eye injury from laser on ground
US: Dallas medic in helicopter suffers eye injury from laser on ground | Aviation incidents, Eye effect or injury, Interrupting mission | LaserPointerSafety.com
US: News reports quote helicopter pilot who suffered two burned corneas from 1995 laser attack
US: News reports quote helicopter pilot who suffered two burned corneas from 1995 laser attack | Aviation incidents, Eye effect or injury | LaserPointerSafety.com
Scotland: UPDATED - Investigators "not ruling out" laser in Glasgow pub helicopter crash
Scotland: UPDATED - Investigators "not ruling out" laser in Glasgow pub helicopter crash | Aviation incidents, Accident/Crash | LaserPointerSafety.com
Ireland: Belfast man's laser could have caused "catastrophic and fatal" helicopter crash at 2011 MTV European Music Awards, judge rules
Ireland: Belfast man's laser could have caused "catastrophic and fatal" helicopter crash at 2011 MTV European Music Awards, judge rules | Aviation incidents, Fines & Jail | LaserPointerSafety.com
The pilot of an Asiana plane that crash landed in San Francisco last week said he saw a bright light 500 feet above the runway, raising questions about whether a laser might have been a factor in the crash, a New York Post story said.
Asiana Pilot Reports Bright Light Above Runway Before Crash
Long list of stories: Laser Pointer Safety - News of aviation-related incidents, arrests, etc.
While I can't find 100% proof that a laser did cause a crash, I can find evidence that suggests it was likely. We also have stories of eye damage that was caused by stupid people shining their lasers.
In the case of the Fresno Guy, past criminal history would never be allowed in a trial. However, once a verdict is reached, past criminal history can be considered in the sentencing.
My biggest fear is that governments are going to step in and make owning a high powered laser illegal. At that point the majority of us are being punished because of the crimes of the minority.
Bob Diaz
US: Dallas medic in helicopter suffers eye injury from laser on ground
US: Dallas medic in helicopter suffers eye injury from laser on ground | Aviation incidents, Eye effect or injury, Interrupting mission | LaserPointerSafety.com
US: News reports quote helicopter pilot who suffered two burned corneas from 1995 laser attack
US: News reports quote helicopter pilot who suffered two burned corneas from 1995 laser attack | Aviation incidents, Eye effect or injury | LaserPointerSafety.com
Scotland: UPDATED - Investigators "not ruling out" laser in Glasgow pub helicopter crash
Scotland: UPDATED - Investigators "not ruling out" laser in Glasgow pub helicopter crash | Aviation incidents, Accident/Crash | LaserPointerSafety.com
Ireland: Belfast man's laser could have caused "catastrophic and fatal" helicopter crash at 2011 MTV European Music Awards, judge rules
Ireland: Belfast man's laser could have caused "catastrophic and fatal" helicopter crash at 2011 MTV European Music Awards, judge rules | Aviation incidents, Fines & Jail | LaserPointerSafety.com
The pilot of an Asiana plane that crash landed in San Francisco last week said he saw a bright light 500 feet above the runway, raising questions about whether a laser might have been a factor in the crash, a New York Post story said.
Asiana Pilot Reports Bright Light Above Runway Before Crash
Long list of stories: Laser Pointer Safety - News of aviation-related incidents, arrests, etc.
While I can't find 100% proof that a laser did cause a crash, I can find evidence that suggests it was likely. We also have stories of eye damage that was caused by stupid people shining their lasers.
In the case of the Fresno Guy, past criminal history would never be allowed in a trial. However, once a verdict is reached, past criminal history can be considered in the sentencing.
My biggest fear is that governments are going to step in and make owning a high powered laser illegal. At that point the majority of us are being punished because of the crimes of the minority.
Bob Diaz
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No need to start a flame war, that stuff can turn unconstructive way too fast.
Reading through the laserpointersafety.com articles, the first thing I note is the apparent lack of propaganda and agenda-serving hype, so good for them in keeping things factual.
The person with burned corneas suffered that injury "15 years ago" according to the 2010 article, meaning 1995. None of the handhelds we have now existed in 1995, certainly not a handheld capable of delivering that kind of power, so it had to have been something else, maybe a lab unit or similar. If it were a lab or show laser, then whoever had it almost certainly knew, or should have known, what they had and what it could do to a person. Even if they stole the laser from somewhere, they had to have fired it up indoors and noticed that it could burn things. I can't argue recklessness there, that appears to be intent, or at best criminal negligence, and that is the kind of situation where jail needs to be considered.
The second report is a situation where an actual injury did appear to have been sustained, in which case the perp should receive a serious consequence for his actions; jail time would be appropriate, plus restituion and fines. The newspaper would report this and include the usual "THIRTEEN TIMES" and usual goon lies, but from reading this report it's clear that a PERSON aimed the laser - so punish THEM and not responsible hobbyists.
The scotland incident flat-out states there was no evidence of a laser involved, and that there WAS evidence of an engine problem. The report also mentions that the paper, once again, included speculation and hype. Why is the paper including that if there was no evidence of a laser? Fear-mongering and propaganda yet again, the news media are clearly not interested in reporting facts. And, check out that update at the end - the Scotsman really put some serious spin on this case, glossing over the possibility of pilot error, and then hammering us with LASER, LASER, LASER.
The sentence in the Belfast case seems more or less appropriate, and the perp admits to being an idiot, so I don't have much to criticize there.
As to the last thing, the pilot said he saw a bright light but doesn't describe it further. I'm surprised they didn't try to spin the facts, but I guess the strong evidence of serious pilot error makes it difficult to scapegoat something unrelated. But if he hadn't crashed, an no one had been hurt, I have no doubt the paper would have tried to spin it and make it about the evil lasers.
* * * * *
That's all I'm complaining about - SPIN and HYPE. Propaganda and lies. That's all we ever get from our government, so damned right I don't trust a word of anything they say. They will tell ANY lie to get a conviction and justify their paycheck.
I also think it's counter-productive for the goons to constantly blather on about MAXIMUM FINES and whatnot. Everyone knows that the maximum almost never happens, and a $250,000 fine is something that most of us can't even comprehend, and we see those threats made so often that it's second nature to just dismiss them as government goon hot air.
Know what most of us DO understand? Especially those of us who grew up before discipline was considered child abuse? GETTING YOUR ASS SPANKED. I seriously believe that the United States should implement caning, Singapore-style, as punishment for what I consider to be "crimes of stupidity." I'd bet money on it that if people knew they would be CANED for pointing a laser at a plane, we'd see a lot less of it. Cane the idiots, and then publicize the fact that they got their ass beat.
I don't know, it makes sense to me. REALLY getting fed up with idiots doing this kind of stuff. But it's not the idiots I'm worried about - with proper consequences (e.g. caning) the idiots could probably be deterred. It's the government liars and thieves I'm worried about, the badge-toting thugs who make a living on prosecuting this type of stuff. It all comes back to the money.
An uncontested lie will become the truth if the lie is never contested. Don't ever forget that. QUESTION everything you read, ESPECIALLY anything coming from any government source, because government sources are PROVEN liars.
Reading through the laserpointersafety.com articles, the first thing I note is the apparent lack of propaganda and agenda-serving hype, so good for them in keeping things factual.
The person with burned corneas suffered that injury "15 years ago" according to the 2010 article, meaning 1995. None of the handhelds we have now existed in 1995, certainly not a handheld capable of delivering that kind of power, so it had to have been something else, maybe a lab unit or similar. If it were a lab or show laser, then whoever had it almost certainly knew, or should have known, what they had and what it could do to a person. Even if they stole the laser from somewhere, they had to have fired it up indoors and noticed that it could burn things. I can't argue recklessness there, that appears to be intent, or at best criminal negligence, and that is the kind of situation where jail needs to be considered.
The second report is a situation where an actual injury did appear to have been sustained, in which case the perp should receive a serious consequence for his actions; jail time would be appropriate, plus restituion and fines. The newspaper would report this and include the usual "THIRTEEN TIMES" and usual goon lies, but from reading this report it's clear that a PERSON aimed the laser - so punish THEM and not responsible hobbyists.
The scotland incident flat-out states there was no evidence of a laser involved, and that there WAS evidence of an engine problem. The report also mentions that the paper, once again, included speculation and hype. Why is the paper including that if there was no evidence of a laser? Fear-mongering and propaganda yet again, the news media are clearly not interested in reporting facts. And, check out that update at the end - the Scotsman really put some serious spin on this case, glossing over the possibility of pilot error, and then hammering us with LASER, LASER, LASER.
The sentence in the Belfast case seems more or less appropriate, and the perp admits to being an idiot, so I don't have much to criticize there.
As to the last thing, the pilot said he saw a bright light but doesn't describe it further. I'm surprised they didn't try to spin the facts, but I guess the strong evidence of serious pilot error makes it difficult to scapegoat something unrelated. But if he hadn't crashed, an no one had been hurt, I have no doubt the paper would have tried to spin it and make it about the evil lasers.
* * * * *
That's all I'm complaining about - SPIN and HYPE. Propaganda and lies. That's all we ever get from our government, so damned right I don't trust a word of anything they say. They will tell ANY lie to get a conviction and justify their paycheck.
I also think it's counter-productive for the goons to constantly blather on about MAXIMUM FINES and whatnot. Everyone knows that the maximum almost never happens, and a $250,000 fine is something that most of us can't even comprehend, and we see those threats made so often that it's second nature to just dismiss them as government goon hot air.
Know what most of us DO understand? Especially those of us who grew up before discipline was considered child abuse? GETTING YOUR ASS SPANKED. I seriously believe that the United States should implement caning, Singapore-style, as punishment for what I consider to be "crimes of stupidity." I'd bet money on it that if people knew they would be CANED for pointing a laser at a plane, we'd see a lot less of it. Cane the idiots, and then publicize the fact that they got their ass beat.
I don't know, it makes sense to me. REALLY getting fed up with idiots doing this kind of stuff. But it's not the idiots I'm worried about - with proper consequences (e.g. caning) the idiots could probably be deterred. It's the government liars and thieves I'm worried about, the badge-toting thugs who make a living on prosecuting this type of stuff. It all comes back to the money.
An uncontested lie will become the truth if the lie is never contested. Don't ever forget that. QUESTION everything you read, ESPECIALLY anything coming from any government source, because government sources are PROVEN liars.
Thanks, As a new member I saw that this could go out of hand quickly so I was being very careful in what I said. I've been on enough Forums to know when I'm walking into a risky topic. :yh:
Like you, I have zero faith in much of what the "News Media" is saying, there's way too much spin and hype added to the news. Sadly, the spin and hype against laser pointers MAY cause politicians jump in and "save us" from our evil doings and ban everything above 1mW. :cryyy:
So It's never a good thing when some Bozo tires to shine one at a car, plane or whatever and increases the odds of getting them banned.
Bob Diaz
hakzaw1
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Is there even such a thing as a 'Federal Offence' ( for intentional lasing aircraft)
that has a sentence of 500$ or probation?? -- Just how many past bad behavours are we supposed to ignore? Is someone arrested for firing a gun at aircraft and missing to be 'rewarded' for his poor aim?? If making an example using this asshat helps- i am for it.
Worst case senerios will always exist-as well as the opposite- GOOD luck finding and getting a jury of (of peers)laser forum members who fully understand lasers.. AND AFAIK most forum members would NOT go easy on this gangster-- and if convicted past bad acts MUST be considered-- serving the time does not make any harm done go away.
The reward deal IIRC is ONLY for 'intentional' lasing of aircraft- and is only paid if and AFTER a conviction results- No reports FROM the involved aircraft means in a sense that it did not happen and w/o a incident report from the pilot nothing else would happen-- as that would for sure be a big waste of money. --
All I know for sure is: When i fly I want NO lasers aimed at the plane- and if on any jury for a laser case I would not be cutting the offender ANY slack. --
hak
that has a sentence of 500$ or probation?? -- Just how many past bad behavours are we supposed to ignore? Is someone arrested for firing a gun at aircraft and missing to be 'rewarded' for his poor aim?? If making an example using this asshat helps- i am for it.
Worst case senerios will always exist-as well as the opposite- GOOD luck finding and getting a jury of (of peers)laser forum members who fully understand lasers.. AND AFAIK most forum members would NOT go easy on this gangster-- and if convicted past bad acts MUST be considered-- serving the time does not make any harm done go away.
The reward deal IIRC is ONLY for 'intentional' lasing of aircraft- and is only paid if and AFTER a conviction results- No reports FROM the involved aircraft means in a sense that it did not happen and w/o a incident report from the pilot nothing else would happen-- as that would for sure be a big waste of money. --
All I know for sure is: When i fly I want NO lasers aimed at the plane- and if on any jury for a laser case I would not be cutting the offender ANY slack. --
hak
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I was thinking the same thing. plus, lasers are a single color, why say bright light, when if it was a laser there is zero reason they would not have added the color to the description. I guess it's POSSIBLE someone made a white RBG laser and pointed it at them but odds of this seem staggeringly astronomical out of favor
I just gave myself an evil little idea. good thing I'm not a bad guy.
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If you're on a jury, your job is not to "cut slack" or not - your job is to consider the true and actual facts, and only the true and actual facts, and whether those facts prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Your job is to question the evidence you have been provided, because history has told us, time and again, that the government can and WILL lie to the people to serve its own ends. With the ever-increasing frequency of lies and propaganda, the responsibility to question is more important than ever.
Yes, I understand that the reward is paid only based on "intentional" lasing... well, what proves intent? Do you honestly mean to tell me that the government goons would actually say something like "oh, yeah, he was just being an idiot, he didn't mean it." They will NOT. With them, everything is always intentional; everything is always an attack of some sort. It's always a "worst case scenario" that was "narrowly avoided". Explain to me why that is.
And btw, no, the answer to that isn't "because they don't want to pay out that much money". 10 grand is pocket change for a federal law enforcement agency, a small price to pay to safeguard their interests - justifying their need to exist and be paid for it. Hell, based on their inherent dishonesty I wouldn't be surprised if those agencies proceeded to scam a bona fide reporter out of the reward even if a conviction did result.
And as for "no report from pilot" incidents, the fact that a reward exists encourages people to report with the intention of collecting the reward. It's an exploitation of the greed of people. It encourages people to report "an attack" without knowing the facts, one of which is whether not it was actually an attack. The thugs then have more people to "investigate", and they can claim "more laser attacks than ever!" and "see, we're protecting you!" It justifies keeping them on the payroll, but at the expense of innocent people (such as us) whose LAST intention is endangering anything.
I know you disagree with me but why would they say "thirteen times the permissible limit" when no such limit exists? Why would they make up a bogus term and use sensational rhetoric if their jobs are to serve justice? How do bogus terms and withholding facts serve the common good?
Why the obsessive focus on something - in the name of saving lives - that has caused zero deaths, when other things (drunk driving, tobacco, etc.) are PROVEN to kill, which have killed, and continue to kill, on a daily basis? Does that sound like a government that has its priorities straight? Really?
Yes, good luck finding a jury whose members understand lasers and the relevent laws when those jurors are being fed lies and gross distortions rather than accurate facts. How many potential jurors now believe that our laser pointers are illegal to possess and use, when in fact they aren't? Is that good for justice?
OK - in view of what I said about avoiding a flame war - I need to step back from this now. We do disagree strongly on a number of points and that's fine. We do, at least, agree that intentionally lasing an unconsenting person is wrong. Maybe we need a national "THINK before you POINT!" campaign
I don't know, but I'm dropping this now, take care and be safe.
IWIRE
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Dang, 14yrs Fed time. 85% of 14 is 11.9 years. While I'm glad they caught him and anyone else that shines a laser at any moving vehicle. I'm not so sure I want to pay his room and board for the next 12 years for shining a laser . In this instance I feel he is probably getting 14yrs because they know he is up to things they can't prove, but they can get him on the laser charge.
Just wait, if the FED's start offering federal funding to states that start a "laser task force",
the witch hunt and Salem Witch trials will be in full force. The people that think they can't stop this, what are they going to do, go house to house looking for lasers and banning DVD burners. They just need to talk to the people in Denver Colorado that USED to own family pets called "Pit Bulls".
The justice system is an enterprise. It's all about the money. If you ever want to know why, just follow the money. If they start offering Federal funding to states that implement laser legislation. We are all sunk. Like it or not. We can thank the idiots that are out shining lasers at aircraft for killing our hobby.
Just wait, if the FED's start offering federal funding to states that start a "laser task force",
the witch hunt and Salem Witch trials will be in full force. The people that think they can't stop this, what are they going to do, go house to house looking for lasers and banning DVD burners. They just need to talk to the people in Denver Colorado that USED to own family pets called "Pit Bulls".
The justice system is an enterprise. It's all about the money. If you ever want to know why, just follow the money. If they start offering Federal funding to states that implement laser legislation. We are all sunk. Like it or not. We can thank the idiots that are out shining lasers at aircraft for killing our hobby.