Juice CR123A batteries max voltage

[xStatiCa]

Has anyone bought the supposed 3.6v CR123A Juice batteries from the link below? I have heard nothing but good things about them but their advertised specs seem misleading according to what they have told me by email.

Juice Brand Rechargeable Photo Lithium CR123A Batteries - eBay (item 120235182065 end time Mar-08-10 06:39:11 PST)

What is their max charge voltage? I contacted Juice and they claim their advertised 3.6v CR123A on the ebay link above has a max charge voltage of 3.8v. If that were true wouldn't they be called 3.0v batteries?

Interestingly they also sell CR2 batteries on ebay that claim the same 3.6v specs but they told me that they can be charged to 4.1/4.2v. I bought 4 of them and they came about 4.1v from them so I am sure they are 4.1/4.2v batteries.

Does anyone know for sure if the CR123A is 4.1/4.2v max or 3.8v? I expected 4.1/4.2v based on the advertsised 3.6v. They also claim it is not a 3.0v battery at the bottom of the page.

From their ebay page:
"PLEASE NOTE, THESE ARE 3.6 VOLT PHOTO LITHIUM BATTERIES AND ARE INTENDED FOR CAMERAS AND NOT INTENDED FOR OTHER APPLICATIONS INCLUDING FLASHLIGHTS. THE 3.6 VOLT IS THE CORRECT RECHARGEABLE FOR CAMERAS AS THE 3.0 VOLT RECHARGEABLE BATTERY WILL NOT POWER CAMERAS."

Very confusing and conflicting information.

Update1: discharge curve of juice and ultrafire CR123A batteries added to campare to. The UltraFire batteries hold the voltage much better under load pulling 320ma. Batteries were charged to 3.1v but they both came down to around 4v shortly after the charge stopped. They both seem to have similar capacity with the ultrafire having slightly more.

NOTE: Ignore the gauges a long the bottom and the mah capacity number at the top. They are only relevant for the previous charge that I did. I plan to crop these images in the future so that there is no confusion.

Juice 3.6v

UltraFire 3.6v

 

[Xtrm2Rick]

i would like to get some off the and the 3,6 cr2's in near future but...
Ships to:United States, Canada

lame

 

[lasersbee]

3.0Volt batteries charge to 3.6V with the proper charger... and their base
voltage over time under use is close to 3.0V... then the voltage drops off
rapidly and they are considered discharged...


3.6Volt batteries charge to 4.2V with the proper charger... and their base
voltage over time under use is close to 3.6V... then the voltage drops off
rapidly and they are considered discharged...


Jerry

 

[xStatiCa]

lasersbee, that is precisely what I have come to expect from all the reading I have done.

What is confusing is that they claim they are 3.6v but they only charge to 3.8v max. So either they are 3.6 volts and they can be charged to 4.1(they just don't realize it) or they are really 3.0v batteries being sold incorrectly as 3.6v. Going by the information below it sounds like they know the difference between 4.1/4.2v max and 3.8v max.

This is one of the responses I got from Juice:
"Well I have 2 different cr123a’s. one that chargers to 3.8 (which is a 3.6 or 3.7 depending on who you talk to. Same battery). I do also have one that that charges to 4.1. I don’t list the 4.1"

And yet another response:
"It is not me being misleading. Sorry you feel this way but blame the industry not me. I don’t make up the names or specs. They were all called 3.0 originally then people started to get confused and upset because they came in over voltage. So the industry changed the names to 3.6. some called them 3.6 others 3.7 because they thought they would one up 3.6. I do remember the guy that bought a ton of them from laserpoint forums. He still buys them. They are the same ones you purchased. The truth is, it does not matter what the voltage is 3.8 or 4.2. Under load, they are closer to 3.0. the 4.2 stays at 4.2 for a millisecond before it drops. The 3.8 drops slower. Send them back and we will process the refund."

Their CR2 batteries seem to be very good and 4.1/4.2v max so I am perplexed how they could think it is ok to advertise a 3.8v max charge battery as a 3.6v battery.

The last part of that response really irritates me though. It seems totally incorrect. 4.1/4.2v max batteries hold the voltage higher than 3.8v max batteries. And it is VERY important to specify what the max charge voltage is because there are different chargers. Users need to know the correct charge voltage to use. I use a Hyperion 0720i Net3 charger so I need to know if I should charge to 3.8v or 4.1 volt.

What I plan to do is charge to 3.8v and do a battery cycle on it to see how many mah I get out of the battery... Even though the mah capacity is not stated from what I can tell. I will need to ask them.

 

[xStatiCa]

Well their customer support is top notch anyway. They have been very quick to respond to emails. They told me to keep the 4 CR123A 3.8v fully charged cells. They are sending me four of the 4.1v fully charged cells for free. They mentioned if I need them in the future to just ask for the red CR123A cells. The ones that they already sent me and are still en route look red on their ebay page though .

I plan to do some tests on them when they come in to determine capacity and such. The Hyperion charger can plot the cell charge/discharge mah and voltage and even internal resistance.

The CR2 batteries I got btw a week ago do show 3.6v on the battery and fully charge to 4.1v per cell.

 

[Drivinfast247]

Yes I have these. The charger that came with it will only charge to 3.8v. I have been using a DX Ultrafire charger and charging them to 4.2v without any problems. They charge fine and dont even get warm. i have at least six charges on them with this charger and they operate perfect.

P.S. I modded my charger to accept these larger cells. The charger I have is for 10440 and 14500 size lithium batteries.


Pete

 

[xStatiCa]

Thanks for the info.

So it sounds like these are actually 3.6v cells then (4.2v fully charged). Is there a specification on the cell itself for voltage? The CR2 cell I have states 3.6v on it. I don't have the CR123As yet. If you get some spare time could you post some pics of a cell(labels mainly).

I would expect a cell designed for 3.8v max voltage to explode or at least get damaged if charged to 4.2v.

 

[Drivinfast247]

Thanks for the info.

So it sounds like these are actually 3.6v cells then (4.2v fully charged). Is there a specification on the cell itself for voltage? The CR2 cell I have states 3.6v on it. I don't have the CR123As yet. If you get some spare time could you post some pics of a cell(labels mainly).

I would expect a cell designed for 3.8v max voltage to explode or at least get damaged if charged to 4.2v.

I thought the same thing so I did the first charge in my garage using the lipo charging sack for my rc car. Yes, I will post some pics up tonight.

Pete

 

[Drivinfast247]

Here they are.

 

[xStatiCa]

Thanks for the pics. They have the same rating as the CR2 batteries that I bought from them that came direct from them at 4.1v. I almost think they are confused about the products they have. The support guy I talked to couldn't tell me how many mah the batteries were rated at. If you got more than 1 or 2 charges out of them charged at 4.2v then they must be 4.2v batteries.

 

[Raybo]

"Internal voltage regulators. Initial cell voltage of 3.6V switches to 3-3.2V within 12ms."

Just use them for the right purpose. :beer:

 

[LarryDFW]

xStatiCa;

The photos of the cells Drivinfast247 posted, would indicate 4.2 VDC lithium-ion batteries.

The nominal voltage over the discharge curve is where the 3.6 VDC comes from.

LarryDFW

 

[Raybo]

xStatiCa;

The photos of the cells Drivinfast247 posted, would indicate 4.2 VDC lithium-ion batteries.

The nominal voltage over the discharge curve is where the 3.6 VDC comes from.

LarryDFW

Exactly!

Why would anyone think otherwise?

 

[Drivinfast247]

Exactly!

Why would anyone think otherwise?

Because the charger that came with these batteries will only charge to 3.8v. They work fine when I use my DX charger and @ 4.2v.

This is what I have. But in this pic it shows the 'Red' label batteries. The seller has changed the item pic.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Rechargeable-...emQQptZBatteries_Chargers?hash=item1c10b0ae1a


Pete

 

[xStatiCa]

The photos of the cells Drivinfast247 posted, would indicate 4.2 VDC lithium-ion batteries.

The nominal voltage over the discharge curve is where the 3.6 VDC comes from.

I agree. Juice support, the people who sell these batteries, are the ones that disagree for this specific cell that they sell. They claim the CR2 batteries are 4.2v max cells which are labelled as 3.6v. They claim the CR123A cells are only 3.8v max cells which are also labelled as 3.6v.

I just got my batteries today and I am running one of the CR123A batteries in a discharge/charge/discharge/charge cycle with 4.1v max charge settings just to see how it handles.

I will also test the other batteries when I get them which they claim are 4.2v fully charged CR123A cells. I have a feeling they will be the same batteries .

The CR123A cells came at 3.7v per cell. The CR2 cells came from them at 4.1v per cell.

Interestingly I put the CR123A cell into the 50mw green laser that kenom sold me and it wouldn't even power the laser. Voltage drops a few hundred millivolt very quickly. I made one of the 4.1v CR2 batteries work and they powered the laser just fine. I have other info but I don't want to publish it until I have more testing done.

 

[xStatiCa]

Your Online Source For Rechargeable CR123A 3V Juice Photo Li-Ion Battery

That site claims they are 4.2v cells. They look exactly like what I got and what Drivinfast247 posted. I think the Juice support guy is confused with the only CR123A batteries they advertise on their site which are 3.0v nominal on their site. What they are selling on ebay in my first post is 3.6v nominal 4.2v max.

There is no doubt in my mind at this point that the batteries I have are 4.2v. I just charged one of them and it didn't even get hot just like Drivinfast247 posted.