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HUGE CNI Frustrations...

sopark4000

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I'm really sorry to hear that CNI is fucking you around this way (sorry for the language but that is exactly what they're doing). IMO at this point the best thing for you to do is to request a refund. You have given them more than ample time to make things right and at this point if you give them another inch they WILL take a mile. I also try to work with people as long as I can before getting nasty but at this point it needs to stop. Heres what it comes down to
-You paid them $1,000 for a product they said they could deliver
-They have had 6 months to deliver the product but have not as of now made ANY progress
-They have lied on several occasions about the status of said product.
-They have requested another $500 6 months after the original payment was made (usually a huge indicator of a scam)
-After a request for another $500 you have received no response.

IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO REQUEST A REFUND
 
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LtKernelPanic

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That sucks man. I hope you (preferably) get your laser or your money back. I have to admit I'm somewhat disappointed in my CNI 589. The driver button is misaligned from the rubber plunger button in the host meaning you have to hit it in a certain way to make it power up. It's something that should have been caught in the final QA check but wasn't especially on a $200+ laser. I should have sent it back but I didn't feel like waiting another 6+ weeks to get it back. Maybe I'll find someone here who's opened one of these before and send it to them to realign things.
 

aryntha

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I'm beginning to think that this is just "the way most Chinese companies do business". I really actually would like to get some insight from Gray on this, because I could be dead wrong, and I don't want to be making suppositions. It could just be that CNI is understaffed or... disorganized... or who knows. China is a big place (understatement) so I don't want to think that I'm casting aspersions on Gray or JetLasers with a broad brush. But it just seems to be common. There are of course exceptions, and it looks like JetLasers and Lazerer may be those exceptions.

But as ElectroFreak said, the "saving face" thing really rings true. They did a 180 on it, and the tone changed after the money was in hand. Maybe they really did think they could produce it, and instead of admitting they couldn't (or admitting they couldn't with enough of a profit margin), things got "shifty".

Either way, I hope we can find another source of exotic DPSS someday. Or maybe I can work out a good arrangement with Laserglow.

At this point i'm worried if i'll even see my GLP-589 from Glenn's shipment... presuming CNI actually ever ships GB#12. (that'd be a double kick in the gut...) Maybe next week they'll tell him -those- lasers are "under production" still. I'm not the only one having these problems, that's for sure.
 
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aryntha

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Well, well, well. It looks like POSSIBLY now, after some folks from LPF have contacted CNI about this, Ava may be at least offering a refund or to pay for "double shipping" (covering some of the wire transfer, too?) if I do decide to do the $500 additional. Not sure what i'm going to do yet, but this is "news to me" since she was NOT even talking refunds or making things easier until Phi/DJNY wrote about his displeasure. (And who knows, Gray might have, too.)

(Don't pile on right now ,don't email Ava on this any further just yet -- let me respond ot her and see what she's willing to have happen.)

Still not the solution I'd like, but -- see? This is what community does. This is what this forum does. It gets balls rolling and through GBs and united numbers, allows us to have 'sway' that an individual alone would never have.

I'll update you guys as this goes on, but I'm going to inquire with Ava now about this, as she is now "Suddenly" responding to my emails again, and also responded to Phi/DJNY with some of this information.

Maybe they can ship GB#12 while they're at it. :rolleyes:

CNI: If you guys are reading, really, (since I know Phi forwarded you the link) there's a chance to do the right thing here and really shine in everyone's opinions again. I asked about the shipping issues last night and got ZERO reply. Tonight it looks like maybe this changed, I'll see what communication I can get from Ava.

Updates as I get 'em.
 
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Encap

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If I were in your shoes , I would ask for a refund ASAP now.
Another $500 is absurd after $1000 and 6 months and the emails they sent to you.
They should never have represented they had a product to sell taken the $1000 from you if they didn't know they could deliver.
Is not business, is crazy.
Anyway good luck.
 

sopark4000

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Well, well, well. It looks like POSSIBLY now, after some folks from LPF have contacted CNI about this, Ava may be at least offering a refund or to pay for "double shipping" (covering some of the wire transfer, too?) if I do decide to do the $500 additional. Not sure what i'm going to do yet, but this is "news to me" since she was NOT even talking refunds or making things easier until Phi/DJNY wrote about his displeasure. (And who knows, Gray might have, too.)

(Don't pile on right now ,don't email Ava on this any further just yet -- let me respond ot her and see what she's willing to have happen.)

Still not the solution I'd like, but -- see? This is what community does. This is what this forum does. It gets balls rolling and through GBs and united numbers, allows us to have 'sway' that an individual alone would never have.

I'll update you guys as this goes on, but I'm going to inquire with Ava now about this, as she is now "Suddenly" responding to my emails again, and also responded to Phi/DJNY with some of this information.

Maybe they can ship GB#12 while they're at it. :rolleyes:

CNI: If you guys are reading, really, (since I know Phi forwarded you the link) there's a chance to do the right thing here and really shine in everyone's opinions again. I asked about the shipping issues last night and got ZERO reply. Tonight it looks like maybe this changed, I'll see what communication I can get from Ava.

Updates as I get 'em.
IMO the only way you should continue is if there is give and take. Only continue with them if they can show you tangible proof of progress on this project. If it were me I would request a refund but I can see that you would rather try to go forward rather than backward which is understandable after 6 months. So as I said you should try to get some kind of proof of progress, proof that there has been an actual attempt to build the laser.
At this point we don't know wether they have physically tried to build this but couldn't or if there engineers simply said "yes we can build it" without actually knowing if they could or not.
 
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My take now would be :
1. Get a FULL refund. They misrepresented their position from the start and have done nothing but try to hide it from you since.
If they have been working on it enough to be "close" to producing what they say then they will continue to perfect it on their own, at their own cost, and on their own timeframe.
2. Put in an order with JetLasers (if they can supply the item per spec) as they actually have some form of "service" ethic.
Ethics go a long way for customer satisfaction. Even if you have to politely say "No' sometimes. A customer respects the honesty and the self-awareness of a business entity that knows when to refuse or deny to do something.
3. Keep communicating with CNI about the progress they are making. (If you can)
You can use the information they might provide as a barometer of their service levels and to help with anything you can be told from JetLasers. A sort of bigger picture kind of thing. AND without any money tied up no pressure about the situation. You might be able to develop a more relaxed/casual line of communication with them that could turn into a positive company "connection" in the future.

OR put simply, take the money somewhere else but don't burn the bridges behind you.
 

aryntha

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Yeah. I'm trying to resolve this now while letting them know my displeasure, and at the same time not burning my bridges as a future customer. A tough balance to strike.

I wrote to Gray/JetLasers, and I tell you I would LOVE it if he could produce such a thing. I haven't heard back from him yet though. I think if Gray got into the 'exotic DPSS' business he could do some sales here on LPF, as getting CNI to do it takes an international summit.
 
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Encap

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One thing is for sure --you should not have to loan them $1000.
If they don't have anything to deliver within 30 days they should have offered you the choice of a refund or wait longer with an anticipated delivery time frame.

To ask for another $500 after they sold you something for $1000 is crazy/not business, unless you entered into an agreement to support the R & D of a new product and gave them $1000 down on it.

To have to beg for what you bought and they accepted money and an order for is not right or business by any standard.

Hopeful wishing aside--I wouldn't worry to much about bridges---cash is the bridge---they are a business offering a finished product for money---either they have the ptoduct or they do not have it. Resonable production time is not 6 months unless that was quoted at the outset.
 

Kalahari

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If you do get this laser you by paying the extra 500$ you should tell them to give you a extended warranty of some sort.

Just so you don't worry about having your laser break after all the problems CNI is currently giving you.

I hope you get this issue resolved!!

Best Regards :)
 

aryntha

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Whoa.

Okay guys, I actually have to call off the dogs here... Thanks to people writing/calling/etc -- Ava IS now talking to me - a lot, and a bit "urgently": It seems that people talking to CNI on this DID make a big impact. They also know about this thread now.

"Please believe that we will try our best to provide you best service, we dont want to cheat your money just for a portable laser and we also dont want to have the affection of our repulation just for one portable laser."

... Maybe this will change things going forward.

I'm talking to her now, and she's talking to me a LOT, and making sure that "everything is clear"... She has offered me the option of a full refund. She still says she needs the $500 additional for the correct laser, but is offering to pay all shipping; I'm trying to get her to agree on the wire transfer fees too.

She also has upped the power of the replacement laser.

So, things are moving -- so, back off for now, we don't want to over-attack, especially when CNI is trying to finally make it right.

To say the least: the forum is making a difference...


CNI wants me to remove this thread as Ava says it is damaging their reputation. I might, *AFTER* everything is resolved. Or re-write the first post as a summary saying that this problem was ultimately resolved.

I think I'd rather, if possible, have it moved to Veterans or something so it was still on file but not publically searchable, if they "make good" on this. And then post another thread saying that it was ultimately resolved. (Again, this all hinges on all of this working out.) Not sure. Conflicted about it. If CNI comes around and makes good, I don't want this to continue to hurt their reputation after they've made good on it. That would not be fair.

"Sometimes good companies make big mistakes"? What do you guys think....
 
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InfinitusEquitas

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IMO take the full refund, and once you receive it, edit the OP to say that resolution was reached, and you received a full refund.

I do not agree with removing the thread or moving it. It should stay publicly available.

After all it never would have been here in the first place if they acted properly and professionally.

This is a positive outcome though, and once it is finalized that should be reflected in the OP.
 
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aryntha

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I'm certainly not doing anything until this is resolved... as in, either I have the refund, or the correct laser. I understand they're upset about how this is reputation damaging but, when dealing across countries -- really what other recourse do we have?

Once the positive outcome is complete, I will, at least, edit the OP and make everyone aware that CNI made good on it. I'm telling Ava right now, I wish it had never come to this. I *want* to be a CNI "supporter", you know? I want this stuff to work out. I have a LOT of CNI lasers! There's nothing in it for me to badmouth them for no reason. I waited 5 months before even saying anything here!

Anyways, I will keep everyone updated but, to make it clear:

Right now, it appears CNI is trying to do the right thing, make this right, and resolve it.

So that's where it stands right now.
Thanks to Phi, Gray, and everyone else who helped out. And the forum for supporting. It's not "done yet", but I'll keep everyone updated as it progresses.
 

qumefox

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I agree that this thread should remain. After all, it was their behavior that started all this in the first place. It remaining here might just be a reminder to them to not try to wander down that particular path again.

When things are resolved.. That should be clearly stated as well.. once it's resolved. But I think the evidence of their treatment of you should be available to anyone who's interested.. After all, that is the point of this forum. To discuss all laser companies, etc.. both good and bad, without bias.
 
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aryntha

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Yeah, I just want to make it clear that CNI IS working with me on this now though...
So the forum is doing its job.

They are very worried about this thread, and I think it's fair to let everyone know that they *are* working with me now.

Laser companies in general hopefully know:

- We do buy lots of lasers.
- We do have LPMs and spectrometers.
- We do have an affect on public perception of companies.

That said it still makes me feel kinda sick that this entire thing had to happen in the first place. I hate being the one who has to go and make a big stink. But apathy doesn't get us anywhere, either. I really just wanted to be treated like a real customer. Looks like that is starting to happen.
 
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sopark4000

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I agree with infintas and qumefox as far as keeping this thread here and updating the OP to reflect the outcome. Honestly If I were in your shoes I would request the refund because if they can't make the laser for $1,000 I doubt they can really do it for $1,500 not to mention how much longer it will take to actually get it in your hans. It just seems unlikely. But it is your money and as I said earlier I can definitely understand why you would rather try to go forward than backward after 6 months.

EDIT- This really just goes to show how incredible this forum can be. If not for this forum and the people here who knows what would have happened in this situation. I'm very happy to hear they are working with you.
 
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