Does laser safety goggles filter out the blue light wavelengths of LEDs?

[Cyparagon]

Can anyone please explain why I'm able to see the blue colors of images at my computer monitor when the Eagle Pair goggles shall block light of 190-540 nm at OD 5 and the blue light is within the 450-495 nm?

I've answered you in the first reply to this post. Please re-read it.

There are more blue light in the "white" LEDs than in the "white" light of the sun.

Bill Nye is disappointed in you, as are the rest of us.

No. You are categorically wrong here. LEDs can be designed to have virtually any color temperature. In fact, most of them solt as retrofits in department stores are "warm white", which is LESS blue than the sun. Prove it to yourself. Turn on a typical LED retrofit in full sun and you will see it appears yellowish because of the decrease in relative blue emission.

This is even more ridiculous of a claim when you yourself admit you have some degree of control over the color temperature of your display.

This is even more ridiculous of a claim when you consider the sheer magnitude differences between the two. We're talking like 100 lux versus 200,000 lux for a monitor and sun respectively. Even if the sun had 10 times less blue proportionally, it would still have 200 times the blue intensity, simply because the sun is SO much brighter.

A cursory googling would disprove this nonsense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

If you're claiming you're only sensitive to blue light if there is a reduction in other colors, you should immediately discard all blue objects from your house, since they reduce other colors while preserving the naturally occurring blue light. Wait, that sounds stupid. All your guests are going to think you're crazy. Better come up with another ad-hoc rationalization of how your blue drapes are lovely, while your blue desktop icons are deadly.

The LEDs do also flicker though is is said that the flickering of modern LEDs isn't detectable by the human eye.

No. again you are categorically wrong here. The amount of flicker is ENTIRELY dependent on the drive method and has nothing to do with the light emitter itself. Half wave rectification (in the dirt-cheap chinese christmas lights for instance) flickers. Capacitive droppers flicker. The constant-current driver used in any modern monitor does not flicker. The current is constant, ergo the light output is constant.

As to your bigger problem here, Yes, there is a nugget of truth to bright lights (especially bright bluish lights) having the ability of affecting sleep patterns in some sensitive individuals. But there is no scientific reason that reducing it wouldn't be sufficient to overcome this. If taking the basic steps the doctor suggested aren't working for you, there's something else that is the dominating factor.

Wanna know what I think? Too bad because I'm telling you anyway. You are experiencing the nocebo effect. Now, this doesn't mean you're faking it. It just means the problem is psychological - but the problem is very real from your perspective. "Your brain makes it real," as Morpheus would say. You're convinced (for tenuous reasons) that blue light is harmful, so you see any blue light and immediately feel harmed, whether you actually are or not.

Cyp., stop feeding the trolls

Troll or not, there ARE people out there that believe this stuff. And when they come to LPF at least, I want them to see at least ONE person pointing out how foolish their ideas are.

 

[Hassel]

We're talking like 100 lux versus 200,000 lux for a monitor and sun respectively. Even if the sun had 10 times less blue proportionally, it would still have 200 times the blue intensity, simply because the sun is SO much brighter.

I don't stare at the sun as I stare at the computer monitor. I do look into the monitor several hours a day but I don't look directly at the sun for even a minute. One must compare the lux of the sun that hits the eyes to the lux that hits the eyes when I'm working by my computer monitor for several hours. And the sun isn't shining all day like the LEDs in the society do. The time during the day and the amount of time of the exposure is probably involved to. I do believe that I'm more sensitive to blue light in the evening than in the morning so reducing the artificial light at times when light is unnaturally is probably a way to reduce my burden. Maybe my sleep is affected by a very small amount of artificial light in the evening in the same way as ordinary people is affected by strong light during their sleeping.

No. again you are categorically wrong here. The amount of flicker is ENTIRELY dependent on the drive method and has nothing to do with the light emitter itself. Half wave rectification (in the dirt-cheap chinese christmas lights for instance) flickers. Capacitive droppers flicker. The constant-current driver used in any modern monitor does not flicker. The current is constant, ergo the light output is constant.

You may be right about modern LEDs. Maybe modern LEDs don't flicker. I'm not really shure if modern LEDs is involved in my sleeping problems. I don't even know that blue light and/or flickering causes my sleeping problems. I only know that especially LCD monitors are disturbing my sleep. The LCD do use PWD to dim the lights. Maybe I'm sensitive to the flickering following the PWD display method of dimming computer displays.

As to your bigger problem here, Yes, there is a nugget of truth to bright lights (especially bright bluish lights) having the ability of affecting sleep patterns in some sensitive individuals. But there is no scientific reason that reducing it wouldn't be sufficient to overcome this. If taking the basic steps the doctor suggested aren't working for you, there's something else that is the dominating factor.

I may be extremely sensetive to bright light especially blue light. I'm diagnosed with both ME and Asperger's syndrome and both diagnosis may cause extreme sensitiveness to bright light. I do understand that then lowering the amount of bright light should help.

Wanna know what I think? Too bad because I'm telling you anyway. You are experiencing the nocebo effect. Now, this doesn't mean you're faking it. It just means the problem is psychological - but the problem is very real from your perspective. "Your brain makes it real," as Morpheus would say. You're convinced (for tenuous reasons) that blue light is harmful, so you see any blue light and immediately feel harmed, whether you actually are or not.

You may be right but there is also something that is called the placebo effect. I really don't bother whatever method that does solve my severe sleeping problems. Maybe the proposed nocebo in this case could be solved by applying a placebo effect, in especial avoiding blue light when sun isn't shining.

Troll or not, there ARE people out there that believe this stuff. And when they come to LPF at least, I want them to see at least ONE person pointing out how foolish their ideas are.

Electricity is a rather new phenomena in the human society and the LEDs are in a historical perspective extremely new phenomena to us. There have been a lot of human problems that have been ignored by the professionals but that later have been proven to exist. The professionals have believed that the human mind was in her heart, that migraine was woman fabrication, that withdrawal of blood from a patient prevent or cured illness and disease, that continuous bath treatment that lasted from several hours to several days would cure mental illness, that the universe is not expanding e.t.c. The prodessionals have changed their mind about all those examples. Only the future can tell whether the lights of LEDs are dangerous or not to a small portion of the population.

One more thing. My partner and I did a test. My partner used to say the same things that you are saying to me in this forum. The test was as follows: I have several blue light blocking goggles of different quality. I have told my partner which ones that is making me sleep a little better than the others. My partner tested the blue light blocking of the goggles by using red, green and blue light diodes. This simple test showed that it was exactly the goggles that helps me the most that also blocks the blue light the most. It may of course be a coincidence but I don't think it is. I do think that the blue light is disturbing my sleep and therefore the goggles that helps me the most is also the goggles that my partner has proven blocks the blue light the most. Unfortunately the Eagle Pair EP-1-10 doesn't help as much though they do block the blue light the most, I think.

 

[Alaskan]

LOL....let the show continue Cyp.

 

[paul1598419]

People with Asperger's, while being very variable from person to person, are often unable to to communicate well with others as this falls under the autism spectrum of disorders. Not knowing you it is impossible to know where your disorder falls along the severity of this interpersonal ability. That said, you seem to be able to communicate very well. Have you spoken to your physician about your perceived concerns? I am dubious of their merits.

 

[Hassel]

People with Asperger's, while being very variable from person to person, are often unable to to communicate well with others as this falls under the autism spectrum of disorders. Not knowing you it is impossible to know where your disorder falls along the severity of this interpersonal ability. That said, you seem to be able to communicate very well. Have you spoken to your physician about your perceived concerns? I am dubious of their merits.

What do you mean by being dubious of their merits?

 

[paul1598419]

I mean that "blue" light is all around you and is not different in its character, at all, from these other light sources. If blue light is keeping you from sleep to the exclusion of any other possible causes you would need to stay away from all white light for an unknown time period prior to going to bed.

 

[Hassel]

I mean that "blue" light is all around you and is not different in its character, at all, from these other light sources. If blue light is keeping you from sleep to the exclusion of any other possible causes you would need to stay away from all white light for an unknown time period prior to going to bed.

I do understand that blue light is all around me and that it isn't different in character whatever it is the blue light of the Sun or the blue light of LEDs or the blue light of computer monitors. The thing is that the white light of LEDs and computer monitors is tilted against the blue light compared to the white light of old light bulbs and the Sun. I may solve this blueish tilt by lowering the color temperature of my monitor so that it gets more yellowish. The problem is that I cannot lower the color temperature of the LEDs and computer monitors that is everywhere in the society nowadays. Therefore I'm trying to lower the blue light of the LEDs and the computer monitors in society by wearing the laser safety goggles Eagle Pair EP-1-10. I think the problem is that I do expose my eyes to high levels of blue light using my computer monitor and by spending time in the light of LEDs when I'm away from home, especially if I do expose myself to the light of LEDs after the Sun has set. This is because high levels of blue light is even more weird for the human brain in the evening than it is in daylight.

I know that I'm able to sleep well if I stay at home using my Dasung e-ink computer monitor instead of my ordinary computer monitor. I've changed the LEDs in my home to old light bulbs to get less blueish light at home. This works but I'm not able to apply the methods outside my home therefore I either have to find a solution so that I can avoid blue light in the evening outside my home or I do have to stay home after the Sun has set. I thought laser safety goggles would solve this problem but I'm not sure they are. I do also believe that my severe sleeping problems is caused by flickering, especially computer monitor flickering. I've red about PWM technology which I suppose most computer monitors do use to dim the LED display. PWM technology is know to create flickering when the light of the LEDs is lowered below a certain value which is different from one monitor to another.

I may even be hypersensitive to both (blue) light and flickering light. The only thing I really do know is that I'm sleeping normally if I stay at home and only use my Dasung monitor and if I lit up my house by old light bulbs. I'm dubious that this is a nocebo effect.

I've been to a doctor specialized to treat sleeping problems and the doctor said that he had never met a person that has tried so many things to solve the sleeping problems that I have done. The doctor prescribed me with sleeping pills but I don't want to use them because I do believe that sleeping problems is caused by an unnaturally liftestyle and that medication only hides the symptoms. Sleeping problems do increase in the society and I don't think it's because of a nocebo effect. I think there is something wrong with our modern way of living that causes the sleeping problems to increase. The pharmaceutical industry and the doctors will of course medicate the population but I think one should hesitate and ask oneself why the sleeping problems is increasing in the society. By the way talking about neurodevelopmental disorders like Asperger's syndrom and ADHD. In US there are probably more people taking ADHD medicine than there are people having ADHD among the American population. I think that's more weird than suggesting that blue light can cause severe sleeping problems but the professionals obvious don't agree with me on this matter either. The experts first said the Earth was flat, then that it was in the center of our solar system and last but not least they said universe was static. Now the experts say artificial light cannot cause severe sleeping problems.

 

[steve001]

I do understand that blue light is all around me and that it isn't different in character whatever it is the blue light of the Sun or the blue light of LEDs or the blue light of computer monitors. The thing is that the white light of LEDs and computer monitors is tilted against the blue light compared to the white light of old light bulbs and the Sun. I may solve this blueish tilt by lowering the color temperature of my monitor so that it gets more yellowish. The problem is that I cannot lower the color temperature of the LEDs and computer monitors that is everywhere in the society nowadays. Therefore I'm trying to lower the blue light of the LEDs and the computer monitors in society by wearing the laser safety goggles Eagle Pair EP-1-10. I think the problem is that I do expose my eyes to high levels of blue light using my computer monitor and by spending time in the light of LEDs when I'm away from home, especially if I do expose myself to the light of LEDs after the Sun has set. This is because high levels of blue light is even more weird for the human brain in the evening than it is in daylight.

I know that I'm able to sleep well if I stay at home using my Dasung e-ink computer monitor instead of my ordinary computer monitor. I've changed the LEDs in my home to old light bulbs to get less blueish light at home. This works but I'm not able to apply the methods outside my home therefore I either have to find a solution so that I can avoid blue light in the evening outside my home or I do have to stay home after the Sun has set. I thought laser safety goggles would solve this problem but I'm not sure they are. I do also believe that my severe sleeping problems is caused by flickering, especially computer monitor flickering. I've red about PWM technology which I suppose most computer monitors do use to dim the LED display. PWM technology is know to create flickering when the light of the LEDs is lowered below a certain value which is different from one monitor to another.

I may even be hypersensitive to both (blue) light and flickering light. The only thing I really do know is that I'm sleeping normally if I stay at home and only use my Dasung monitor and if I lit up my house by old light bulbs. I'm dubious that this is a nocebo effect.

I've been to a doctor specialized to treat sleeping problems and the doctor said that he had never met a person that has tried so many things to solve the sleeping problems that I have done. The doctor prescribed me with sleeping pills but I don't want to use them because I do believe that sleeping problems is caused by an unnaturally liftestyle and that medication only hides the symptoms. Sleeping problems do increase in the society and I don't think it's because of a nocebo effect. I think there is something wrong with our modern way of living that causes the sleeping problems to increase. The pharmaceutical industry and the doctors will of course medicate the population but I think one should hesitate and ask oneself why the sleeping problems is increasing in the society. By the way talking about neurodevelopmental disorders like Asperger's syndrom and ADHD. In US there are probably more people taking ADHD medicine than there are people having ADHD among the American population. I think that's more weird than suggesting that blue light can cause severe sleeping problems but the professionals obvious don't agree with me on this matter either. The experts first said the Earth was flat, then that it was in the center of our solar system and last but not least they said universe was static. Now the experts say artificial light cannot cause severe sleeping problems.

Unfortunately there's likely not anything you can do out in the world. Switch to warm white leds: filament bulbs are energy wasteful as you know.

 

[paul1598419]

You don't need to look into a light source to get the "blue" light you are claiming keeps you awake because it is reflected off of all surfaces in any room you are in before bed. It is coming off the walls, floor, and furniture in varying amounts dependent on how well they reflect this light. White walls are likely reflecting much of the diffuse "blue" light you are claiming is your only problem.

 

[Hassel]

You don't need to look into a light source to get the "blue" light you are claiming keeps you awake because it is reflected off of all surfaces in any room you are in before bed. It is coming off the walls, floor, and furniture in varying amounts dependent on how well they reflect this light. White walls are likely reflecting much of the diffuse "blue" light you are claiming is your only problem.

Yest but the reflecting light won't be as strong as looking into the Sun. I wonder whether the Sun reflections from the walls, floor and furniture or the light from an ordinary computer monitor has the highest figure of light and especially blue light.

Maybe I suffer from the condition Photophobia which is overrated in people with autism. Photophobia is not a phobia. Photophobia is a hypersensitiveness to light and especially artificial light.

 

[paul1598419]

That is a good question to ask your physician.

 

[Cyparagon]

There have been a lot of human problems that have been ignored by the professionals but that later have been proven to exist.

The time to believe in a danger is AFTER it has been proven, not before.

LEDs are in a historical perspective extremely new phenomena to us.

LEDs are new, but visible light is not. The light output from LEDs is visible light, plain and simple. It's a new way of producing something that humanity is quite accustomed to.

"Anything new (in any way) should be treated as dangerous until proven otherwise" would be a shitty way to live your life.

This simple test showed that it was exactly the goggles that helps me the most that also blocks the blue light the most.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

useless sample size aside, nocebo would also explain this. You see blue light, and immediately perceive a hazard whether there is one or not.

Besides, you say later on:

the goggles that helps me the most is also the goggles that my partner has proven blocks the blue light the most. Unfortunately the Eagle Pair EP-1-10 doesn't help as much though they do block the blue light the most, I think.

You've... just refuted your own experiment and contradicted your own findings.

high levels of blue light is even more weird for the human brain in the evening than it is in daylight.

So are automobiles, eyeglasses, air-conditioning, and modern medical facilities. You gonna give all those up too because they're new or not natural?

I may even be hypersensitive to both (blue) light and flickering light. The only thing I really do know is that I'm sleeping normally if I stay at home and only use my Dasung monitor and if I lit up my house by old light bulbs.

HAH! Well, guess what. I'm about to ruin your day with another fact here

Are you ready? ... Incandescent lights flicker at 120Hz! Search youtube for high-speed incandescent footage if you don't believe me.

You're running out of places to hide, my man!

And the sun isn't shining all day

You wanna think about your words carefully and run that by me again? I'm beginning to lose hope in you.

 

[diachi]

And the sun isn't shining all day like the LEDs in the society do.

It does where I live, at least for part of the year, doesn't stop me from sleeping though, even if it does cause some confusion when I wake up at 2AM to take a leak.

I agree with Paul on this one, work with your physician to figure out the issue. Blue light is not the issue, "old bulbs" still emit blue light, if they didn't then they wouldn't produce white light and you wouldn't be able to see the colour blue under them. I say this as someone that works in IT, sits in front of a screen for at the very least 8 hours a day (for the last 10 years) and has spent the extra $20 to get the blue light filtering lenses on my glasses. It does not make a difference big enough to impact my sleep in any meaningful way. At best these lenses reduce eye strain, and even that is questionable.

The things that impact my sleep most are generally habitual or related to attention/possibly undiagnosed ADD. Not blue lights, or monitors or LEDs. I sleep next to the closet where I grow cannabis using LED lighting, there's a shit load of blue light coming out of there and it hasn't once affected my sleep, nor have the LED lights that light my apartment.

 

[Coonie]

You're doctor gave you sleeping pills then you better take them and stop being ridiculous about it

 

[paul1598419]

Actually it is fluorescent lights that flicker at 120 Hz, not incandescent ones. They give off light by heating the filament to white hot in the absence of air. You can actually use fluorescent lights as a strobe for things that spin at high rates of speed. While incandescent lights may vary slightly with the AC they never really turn off.

 

[Hassel]

The time to believe in a danger is AFTER it has been proven, not before.

One has to be suspicious against new phenomena. Not being sure that they are safe or dangerous.

LEDs are new, but visible light is not. The light output from LEDs is visible light, plain and simple. It's a new way of producing something that humanity is quite accustomed to.

Yes but they do expose us for light more hours a day than other light sources did before. There is no doubt that our society is getting more and more light polluted. I'm not able to post links in the forum yet but National Geographic published an article "Our nights are getting brighter, and Earth is paying the price" were you can read about the light pollution in the modern cities.

"Anything new (in any way) should be treated as dangerous until proven otherwise" would be a shitty way to live your life.

It's dangerous to take too low risk but it's also dangerous to take too high risk. There need to be a balance.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

You're completely right and the test may not has been done in a scientific way. We shall not trust my test but it was an intereseting fact that the goggles that my partner found out blocked the most of blue light also was those goggles that I got best sleep wearing during the day.

useless sample size aside, nocebo would also explain this. You see blue light, and immediately perceive a hazard whether there is one or not.

The problem with nocebo is that one never knows if the person how is believed to suffer from nocebo really does suffer from it or is suffering from an unusual disorder.

You've... just refuted your own experiment and contradicted your own findings.

Yes and I'm aware of that it did. I admit that there is something that is wrong in my hypothesis by that doesn't prove that I do suffer from a nocebo effect. I'm beginning to think that I do suffer from Photophobia. Photophobia is extreme sensitivity to light.

So are automobiles, eyeglasses, air-conditioning, and modern medical facilities. You gonna give all those up too because they're new or not natural?

No we shall not give up new technology but we shall be suspicious against how they may affect the human health which be don't know beforehand. We have to be suspicious the way new technology affect our health because they change our way of living and we do find out more about ourselves as human beings by using new technology. I think it's intolerant to say that people do suffer from a nocebo effect because the humanity doesn't know all the possible negative effects new technology may cause the health. We would probably not have found that some people do have Dyslexia if the humanity had not invented the printing press during the late medieval society. And we would probably not have found out that overweight is unhealthy if we were still struggling to still our hunger everyday. We would not have found out that some people have problems changing eye focus in short notice if people weren't seeking doctors because they suffer illness surfing web pages, either. Without the air-conditioning we may not know that noise pollution causes brain fatigue and without automobile traffic we may not know that noise pollution causes heart diseases. I may be the first generation suffering severely from light pollution. I think it's impossible to say if I suffer from a nocebo effect or if it is the ligt pollution of the modern society that is causing my severe sleeping problems. I don't have any other choice than believing in my own experiences. I don't think that there is a way to prove that my light sensitivity is a nocebo effect.

Are you ready? ... Incandescent lights flicker at 120Hz! Search youtube for high-speed incandescent footage if you don't believe me.

Thanks for the information. I'll check that up. Maybe I have underestimated the flickering of old light bulbs.

You wanna think about your words carefully and run that by me again? I'm beginning to lose hope in you.

I did of course mean that the sun is not shining of the part of the earth where I do live all day. The Sun is of course shining 24 hours a day. My point is that light pollution is a rather new phenomena that is getting more worse every year and that it may affect the human health especieally of people that are more sensitive to light than others.