Community Goal?

[Alaskan]

I believe members investing their time to produce easier ways to get the stuff built we want is a good path towards increasing participation, but that we should look at a several prong approach if you want to increase activity, each of them will bring in a percent more and when added together a synergy which might increase the total interest a magnitude higher than any one of them alone could do. Just need to figure out which ones to go after.

I would like to suggest we make another main forum name which all of the groups can fall under, or perhaps just link within them to one another, I don't know. Ideas? The name of the group as Laser Pointer Forums restricts its appeal, some won't join who are interested in photonic technology because they see it as a forum for laser toys.

 

[H2Oxide]

I believe members investing their time to produce easier ways to get the stuff built we want is a good path towards increasing participation, but that we should look at a several prong approach if you want to increase activity, each of them will bring in a percent more and when added together a synergy which might increase the total interest a magnitude higher than any one of them alone could do. Just need to figure out which ones to go after.

Of course, but in our current state, I don't think that taking on multiple projects at one time is a good idea. Everybody will be working on their own thing, and before you know it we're back to square one.

Interest fluctuates anyway. A few months ago there was a huge surge of interest in 589's but that seems to have died down for the most part. If we start a community goal now based on what the community wants right now, chances are that by the time the deadline rolls around people will be eager to start on something fresh. After a while, I think that most people's niche interests will be developed, at least to some degree, enough that they can use our findings to do what they want.

Gaining interest in the hobby certainly wouldn't be a bad thing, but I think that trying to preserve what we have should come first. If there is an increase in interest, I'm all for multiple goals, but right now I just don't think there's enough people. Like Encap pointed out, there might not even be enough people for one.

I would like to suggest we make another main forum name which all of the groups can fall under, or perhaps just link within them to one another, I don't know. Ideas? The name of the group as Laser Pointer Forums restricts its appeal, some won't join who are interested in photonic technology because they see it as a forum for laser toys.

Photonexus?

 

[Alaskan]

That might work, but I think something with more play in it, yet techno appeal.

 

[H2Oxide]

That might work, but I think something with more play in it, yet techno appeal.

appeal, you say?

 

[Alaskan]

That's better, not sure though. Seems to infer a commercial site, but short which is good. LaserPointerForums is a name which has both strength and weakness, a good draw for the general public, but not so good for more serious laser interests. Although, as you well know, we have some advanced laser technology members here too, so I can't strictly say that.... but there isn't anywhere else to go, unless you go to the projector forum and those folk aren't very active. Don't know if there is a good solution, but I do like the idea of creating a forum with a broader name, don't know it would end up being good for this forum, might take too much activity way from here, then again, it might be so dead no one goes there. We have time to toss around ideas, your first thoughts would be a good direction.

Instead of avoiding commercial appearances, maybe that is exactly the direction we should go, we would probably have far more people coming here looking for goodies. That dove tails with your first suggestion, a place to come to find support for projects. Everyone at every level of interest needs parts... so maybe Laser Hub is the way to go, with a commercial section and forum support. I wouldn't want to take anything away from the founders of this community, so I think they would need to create the group. Someone could run with this idea and create it on their own and in time it could be very successful, but gives a bad vibe to suck members away from here through a split. Founding a group by taking members from another, when you are a member in that group, can cause a rift which can last years and kill the idea. I know, that is not your intent, yours is pure, but I just wanted to say something about that.

So a group which is both educational and commercial in one to draw in more activity is my vote. If it provides someone with a living, it should then be self supporting. The commercial side should have laser diodes, optics, hardware and supporting electronics from low to high end to keep it broad enough to draw more members. A start might simply be by getting affiliations with different computer part/laser suppliers with discounts to members, later break off with your own. Problematic right now as we already have a commercial forum advertiser, we could loose their support if they loose customers by the initial dilution. If we have several members who want to join in on the effort, I would require all transactions to be done through either credit card or paypal, otherwise we could suffer from someone getting scammed, or the appearance of someone trying to scam them when their house of cards fall, as we have seen here before.

Another way of getting more forum activity without all of that work and complexity might be by setting something up with a large company such as Edmund Optics who might agree to put a link to the forum on their web site to promote it, but we would have to tighten up on the registration requirements so as not to embarrass them with a bunch of trolls. To be attractive to them, the forum might need some changes, a name change too so it is broader. For all I know, they might be OK with it as is. If not them someone else, we could just try promoting the forum on Facebook if members are willing to help fund that.

 

[Accutronitis]

As for the causes, I can't say. If I had to guess, I'd say the recent influx of trolls has certainly made us more hostile towards newcomers, so that may be a contributing factor. But it can't be the root cause, this has been happening much longer than that.

Well I as a new member I certainly experienced some hostility and was accused of being a former member and being called a troll without so much as a single question in the beginning, It was like a trial by fire for a bit but I stuck it out and now I like it here very much ! I stuck it out because I had a new found interest in hand held lasers after I learned how far they had advanced and how much the cost had dropped over the years and after I dug into my first hand held laser ($50 dollar Ebay burner) I knew this was something I could do with the skills I have.

Anyways I was committed to learning more and building my own custom laser BUT I have no doubt that a less committed person than myself wouldn't have stuck it out, Don't get me wrong I completely understand where that hostility comes from after having a nutcase stalker following me everywhere I go for two years and his off topic trolling of me, Trolling like that can make even the most patient and level headed person a little gun shy and a bit hostile to unknown people, I get it, but I think long time members should give the new guys more of a chance by nicely asking some questions of the new member before labeling someone an outright troll. Oh and try to be a little less nitpicky to the new guys until they get the swing of things because every community is different and have their own way of doing things that may not be readily apparent to someone just joining, Plus some old habits can be hard to break.

This is a great place with a unbelievable amount of knowledge and once you get over the hump there's some great humor here as well so try to be a little less suspicious of the new guy because he might be just that, A new Guy ! :friend:

 

[Alaskan]

I agree with all of your sentiments, I was also treated like i was a troll when i first came here, but that changed, in time. Now I'm probably something worse, paranoid about trolls. That is the aim of an individual who seeks to both get attention while destroying relationships at the same time, so it certainly had an amount of success.

 

[Accutronitis]

appeal, you say?

Please members don't get mad but I must admit this place could stand a bit of a name change "Laser Pointer Forum" ? This place is so much more than that ! I like that name and it gets my vote ! :sold:

I That is the aim of an individual who seeks to both get attention while destroying relationships at the same time.

Absolutely ! The biggest thing they do is try to make people suspicious and untrusting of one another !




"Community Goals?" One more choice needs to be added "undecided" or "Don't know" or maybe "could be good"......

 

[Razako]

It's definitely unusual how inactive this forum has become over the past year or two. Technology wise, the hobby is in a great place right now. Cheap and readily available laser diodes in red, green and blue provide us with a powerful laser in almost any wavelength we want. The only areas we haven't seen much progress are in yellow and 488nm lasers.

Prices have also gotten much better compared to the early days of the laser hobby. DPSS prices have fallen by >75% in some cases. Prices on ebay are stunningly cheap now. You can get a true burning 450nm laser for only $50-$70. You can get a relatively decent 532nm (303/301lasers) for $7-8 shipped. 3 packs of overspec 405/532/650 for $7 etc. Never before have lasers been so readily available and affordable.

I remember this forum back in the 2008-2010 days when there was a huge amount of activity despite less available products and higher prices. You would naturally think things would be equally if not more busy around here today with all of the progress right?

Here are what I consider to be the contributing factors to the decline of the laser hobby and this forum.
-As one member suggested, I believe the decline of Wicked plays a part. While wicked were far from the best products or deals, they were GREAT at generating hype for the laser hobby. Their adds in magazines and other social media drew tons of people into lasers. Now that they no longer ship to the US and no longer advertise we've lost an important recruitment tool.
-Laserglow was another company which would advertise in scientific magazines and they've also stopped shipping >5mw to the US. The companies which still do ship >5mw lasers to the US tend not to advertise a whole lot.
-As Alaskan suggested, the novelty factor has somewhat worn off. Having a quality burning laser in the early years used to get you some real bragging rights (A burning 532nm capable of lighting matches would cost you a few hundred dollars), and now you can get burning 532nm's for like $20 from Sanwu. With the cheap prices and ready availability of lasers these days the 'exclusivity' of the hobby has somewhat worn off. Nobody gets all that exited anymore by a youtube vid showing a green laser popping balloons, lighting matches or burning through a newspaper. It's like what would happen in the auto world if everybody could get a high end sports car for <$20,000. Suddenly the special factor would decline by quite a lot.
-We have seen a slight stagnation over the past year or two when it comes to new developments. Still waiting on progress in the yellow and 488nm areas. Nothing groundbreaking has come out in years now, and hobbies thrive off new developments.
-The whole sci-fi lasers issue may have hurt this forum more than people realize. I mean the main official site sponsor decided to start blatantly scamming EVERYBODY, and it went on for several months before totally blowing up. Eitan likely ripped off HUNDREDS of forum users and possibly caused them to lose interest in the hobby and this forum in particular. Especially bad was how long it took to pull the banner adds after the extent of his scamming was revealed.
-Lurkers: It seems like this forum has a massive amount of lurkers sometimes. I'll see like 1500+ people browsing the general section alone, and none of them post anything. Somehow we need to encourage people to actually get involved and post stuff.
-As another guy suggested, the forum name could use a little rework perhaps. It's just not 'exciting sounding' to people who come across it.

Things I don't believe are directly responsible for the decline:
-The negative press regarding laser attacks. Generally negative press and threats of bans are great at encouraging more interesting in a hobby as many people will try to stock up and learn about the hobby while they can. See what happens with gun sales in the US after events such as Sandy Hook for an easy example of this. Suddenly people want to buy up everything in sight before big govt can ban it. The negative press has only indirectly decreased interest in the hobby by causing wicked and LG to stop selling here.
-Financial issues. We're past the trouble of the 2008 financial collapse and the stock market is in great shape. Seems like people should have plenty of disposable income for hobbies such as this. The products have also gotten much cheaper as stated above.
-Safety concerns: See negative press. Hearing about how dangerous something is generally drives more interest.
-The trolling: The level of trolling here is honestly nothing compared to the level seen on more popular forums. The only way it would hurt this forum is if it causes members to react more harshly to new guys asking dumb questions. Everybody asked dumb "Is this laser any good" types of questions when they were starting out. Yeah, they could search the forum and see the "what company to buy from" thread, but let's be real here, people usually don't do that.

So how do we fix the situation?
-There are no easy answers that I know off.
-Forum giveaway style threads might encourage more lurkers to sign up and post here, if only to have a shot at getting a free item.
-New tech developments like yellow laser diodes or affordable 488nm would probably bring some interest back, but those aren't guaranteed to come out soon/ever.
-Community goals as suggested by the OP might be one way, but those would appeal mostly to the people who are into lasers for the science. Wouldn't do much to attract the people who just want cool tech gadgets.
-Make sure you put out awesome youtube videos sometimes. Those are great recruitment tools for this hobby.
-It would be great if we could somehow make this into more of a laser AND flashlight forum. I realize we have a flashlight subsection, but it's pretty dead. The flashlight crowd seems to be substantially bigger than the laser crowd, and if we could attract some of them here they might cross over and get into lasers also.
-Maybe add in a political and current events forum? People love posting in those.

 

[Alaskan]

Only concern I have about give aways is whether it went to a minor, or someone who might sue me if they hurt themselves or someone else with it. Otherwise I agree.

 

[Razako]

Only concern I have about give aways is whether it went to a minor, or someone who might sue me if they hurt themselves or someone else with it. Otherwise I agree.

True, but there are ways around that. A tactical gear youtube channel I watch will have periodic giveaways of knives and such. They just require the winner to send a picture of their photo ID to prove their age.

 

[H2Oxide]

appeal, you say?

I feel like this flew over everyone's head.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS NAME SERIOUSLY.

EDIT: Okay, we have 9 positive votes and no negative votes. If you guys want to start suggesting ideas go ahead.

 

[CurtisOliver]

I like your idea to get more attention for the forum H2Oxide. We do need some more interest, but it needs to stay positive. I agree with many of Razako's reasons for the decline. But the name change I don't like too much. Call me stubborn, but I don't like change much. I signed up to LPF, not any other site. I'm proud to be part of this site as it is. Also people become part of the hobby on their own accord due to their own personal interests. We don't want to encourage people into the hobby for the wrong reasons. Arguably lasers is a cool hobby to have, but where there is coolness, there is stupidity. We don't want people joining just because they saw a cool burning laser and now they want one. Or we offer free lasers from time to time. We want serious hobbyists who appreciate the minor things like wavelength, beam specs, the actual science behind their lasers etc. Not those you just want POWER and MORE ...

 

[Accutronitis]

It's definitely unusual how inactive this forum has become over the past year or two. Technology wise, the hobby is in a great place right now. Cheap and readily available laser diodes in red, green and blue provide us with a powerful laser in almost any wavelength we want. The only areas we haven't seen much progress are in yellow and 488nm lasers.

Prices have also gotten much better compared to the early days of the laser hobby. DPSS prices have fallen by >75% in some cases. Prices on ebay are stunningly cheap now. You can get a true burning 450nm laser for only $50-$70. You can get a relatively decent 532nm (303/301lasers) for $7-8 shipped. 3 packs of overspec 405/532/650 for $7 etc. Never before have lasers been so readily available and affordable.

I remember this forum back in the 2008-2010 days when there was a huge amount of activity despite less available products and higher prices. You would naturally think things would be equally if not more busy around here today with all of the progress right?

Here are what I consider to be the contributing factors to the decline of the laser hobby and this forum.
-As one member suggested, I believe the decline of Wicked plays a part. While wicked were far from the best products or deals, they were GREAT at generating hype for the laser hobby. Their adds in magazines and other social media drew tons of people into lasers. Now that they no longer ship to the US and no longer advertise we've lost an important recruitment tool.
-Laserglow was another company which would advertise in scientific magazines and they've also stopped shipping >5mw to the US. The companies which still do ship >5mw lasers to the US tend not to advertise a whole lot.
-As Alaskan suggested, the novelty factor has somewhat worn off. Having a quality burning laser in the early years used to get you some real bragging rights (A burning 532nm capable of lighting matches would cost you a few hundred dollars), and now you can get burning 532nm's for like $20 from Sanwu. With the cheap prices and ready availability of lasers these days the 'exclusivity' of the hobby has somewhat worn off. Nobody gets all that exited anymore by a youtube vid showing a green laser popping balloons, lighting matches or burning through a newspaper. It's like what would happen in the auto world if everybody could get a high end sports car for <$20,000. Suddenly the special factor would decline by quite a lot.
-We have seen a slight stagnation over the past year or two when it comes to new developments. Still waiting on progress in the yellow and 488nm areas. Nothing groundbreaking has come out in years now, and hobbies thrive off new developments.
-The whole sci-fi lasers issue may have hurt this forum more than people realize. I mean the main official site sponsor decided to start blatantly scamming EVERYBODY, and it went on for several months before totally blowing up. Eitan likely ripped off HUNDREDS of forum users and possibly caused them to lose interest in the hobby and this forum in particular. Especially bad was how long it took to pull the banner adds after the extent of his scamming was revealed.
-Lurkers: It seems like this forum has a massive amount of lurkers sometimes. I'll see like 1500+ people browsing the general section alone, and none of them post anything. Somehow we need to encourage people to actually get involved and post stuff.
-As another guy suggested, the forum name could use a little rework perhaps. It's just not 'exciting sounding' to people who come across it.

Things I don't believe are directly responsible for the decline:
-The negative press regarding laser attacks. Generally negative press and threats of bans are great at encouraging more interesting in a hobby as many people will try to stock up and learn about the hobby while they can. See what happens with gun sales in the US after events such as Sandy Hook for an easy example of this. Suddenly people want to buy up everything in sight before big govt can ban it. The negative press has only indirectly decreased interest in the hobby by causing wicked and LG to stop selling here.
-Financial issues. We're past the trouble of the 2008 financial collapse and the stock market is in great shape. Seems like people should have plenty of disposable income for hobbies such as this. The products have also gotten much cheaper as stated above.
-Safety concerns: See negative press. Hearing about how dangerous something is generally drives more interest.
-The trolling: The level of trolling here is honestly nothing compared to the level seen on more popular forums. The only way it would hurt this forum is if it causes members to react more harshly to new guys asking dumb questions. Everybody asked dumb "Is this laser any good" types of questions when they were starting out. Yeah, they could search the forum and see the "what company to buy from" thread, but let's be real here, people usually don't do that.

So how do we fix the situation?
-There are no easy answers that I know off.
-Forum giveaway style threads might encourage more lurkers to sign up and post here, if only to have a shot at getting a free item.
-New tech developments like yellow laser diodes or affordable 488nm would probably bring some interest back, but those aren't guaranteed to come out soon/ever.
-Community goals as suggested by the OP might be one way, but those would appeal mostly to the people who are into lasers for the science. Wouldn't do much to attract the people who just want cool tech gadgets.
-Make sure you put out awesome youtube videos sometimes. Those are great recruitment tools for this hobby.
-It would be great if we could somehow make this into more of a laser AND flashlight forum. I realize we have a flashlight subsection, but it's pretty dead. The flashlight crowd seems to be substantially bigger than the laser crowd, and if we could attract some of them here they might cross over and get into lasers also.
-Maybe add in a political and current events forum? People love posting in those.

1000+ A+1 and everything else that shows agreement or approval !

I feel like this flew over everyone's head.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS NAME SERIOUSLY.

EDIT: Okay, we have 9 positive votes and no negative votes. If you guys want to start suggesting ideas go ahead.

I was serious about the name, "laser pointer forum" ? Are you kidding me ??? This place is so much more that that someone pointing at a white board with a laser !

I was reading about a member here building a green laser that took up a entire table and he was shooting for a output of over 20 watts and I didn't understand one word they were talking about BUT it was fascinating, All of it !!!

Many member including myself have built or are building high power handheld laser that could never be used to point at anything other that stars in the night sky or risk setting the house on fire !!!

All that and much more is going on at the "laser POINTER forum" ? Really ? 5mW pointing lasers are about the last thing this place is about !

But I'm just thinking out loud and I'm new here sooo........ :gh:

Just one more thing, See those two very cool lasers in my sig below ? Those would have never been possible without this place and the member here and I thank all the members who help me make that happen (and I hold you all responsible for the damage to the furnishings in my build room ! JK lol). I have both of them sitting right next to me as I'm typing this, Really !

 

[Encap]

I keep thinking this or some of this at least should be in the Veterans section behind closed doors amongst people with over 1000 posts, 1 year membership, and positive reputation and/or in Help, Suggestions, & Administrative Announcements.

Coldshadow who started, owns, administrates the financial end, takes care of all security and maintainance needs/issues, and has to deal with and cover the legal and liability issues of this forum needs to be in the loop and consulted on all of this, if he isn't already.
It is his effort/forum and nothing other than what is already, is going to happen without his agreement.
We are discussing broad changes, creation of a new subforum or catagory, teaming with other companies, give aways, changing the nature and quality of LPF, and even changing the name of LPF-- none of which members have any ability to do.
Coldshadow has the responsibility of the finances, legal, and liability issues and his vision of what the forum is, where this forum is going/can go is key/essential.
All of this is interesting but LPF is for general members courtesy of/and created by Coldshadow.

Just a thought.

 

[CurtisOliver]

You're right Encap. We have no right to agree on anything without Coldshadow. Although any ideas have always been welcome, maybe we should move this to the vet section. There is no harm in coming up with ideas. But personally I think everything is ok how it is. The more attention we get, the more negativity that comes our way as well. Our hobby is already in danger due to ignorance and stupidity.