Space Discussion Thread

[paul1598419]

Just watched an approach to Jupiter and it showed the moons in orbit. Looking forward to much more.

 

[RedCowboy]

Just watched an approach to Jupiter and it showed the moons in orbit. Looking forward to much more.

Any link ?

 

[paul1598419]

Any link ?

It was on my MSN news link and I just went to find the link. Got to it, said " new videos of Jupiter mission" and then it updated and I lost it. :thinking:

 

[Pi R Squared]

He may be referring to this video, it was taken over 17 days as Juno was approaching Jupiter and sped up, these are the moons that Galileo saw and discovered they were orbiting Jupiter.

Alan

 

[NightExplorer96]

Anyone heard of the Kardashev Scale? It's a scale used to easily show how advanced a civilization has become. Found it randomly while searching the web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

*humanity is here, at Type 0.74*

Type I: "Technological level close to the level presently attained on earth, with energy consumption at ≈4×1019 erg/sec (4 × 1012 Watt)."[1] Guillermo A. Lemarchand stated this as "A level near contemporary terrestrial civilization with an energy capability equivalent to the solar insolation on Earth, between 1016 and 1017 watts."[3]

Type II:
"A civilization capable of harnessing the energy radiated by its own star"--for example, the stage of successful construction of a Dyson sphere--"with energy consumption at ≈4×1033 erg/sec."[1] Lemarchand stated this as "A civilization capable of utilizing and channeling the entire radiation output of its star. The energy utilization would then be comparable to the luminosity of our Sun, about 4×1033 erg/sec (4×1026 Watt)."[3]

Type III: "A civilization in possession of energy on the scale of its own galaxy, with energy consumption at ≈4×1044 erg/sec."[1] Lemarchand stated this as "A civilization with access to the power comparable to the luminosity of the entire Milky Way galaxy, about 4×1044 erg/sec (4×1037 Watt)."[3]

It's been estimated that human civilization is now at a level of 0.74, so not quite I. :yh:

-Alex

 

[Pi R Squared]

Anyone heard of the Kardashev Scale? It's a scale used to easily show how advanced a civilization has become. Found it randomly while searching the web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

It's been estimated that human civilization is now at a level of 0.74, so not quite I. :yh:

-Alex

Yes I have heard of it, anyone who is a fan of Star Trek or who listens to professor Mechio Kaku will be familiar with it. The subject also comes up sometimes on several radio shows that talk about science and space or UFOs/aliens.

Here is a small update on Juno from three days ago.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/team-begins-powering-up-science-instruments

Alan

 

[AaronT]

Anyone heard of the Kardashev Scale? It's a scale used to easily show how advanced a civilization has become. Found it randomly while searching the web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

*humanity is here, at Type 0.74*

Type I: "Technological level close to the level presently attained on earth, with energy consumption at ≈4×1019 erg/sec (4 × 1012 Watt)."[1] Guillermo A. Lemarchand stated this as "A level near contemporary terrestrial civilization with an energy capability equivalent to the solar insolation on Earth, between 1016 and 1017 watts."[3]

Type II:
"A civilization capable of harnessing the energy radiated by its own star"--for example, the stage of successful construction of a Dyson sphere--"with energy consumption at ≈4×1033 erg/sec."[1] Lemarchand stated this as "A civilization capable of utilizing and channeling the entire radiation output of its star. The energy utilization would then be comparable to the luminosity of our Sun, about 4×1033 erg/sec (4×1026 Watt)."[3]

Type III: "A civilization in possession of energy on the scale of its own galaxy, with energy consumption at ≈4×1044 erg/sec."[1] Lemarchand stated this as "A civilization with access to the power comparable to the luminosity of the entire Milky Way galaxy, about 4×1044 erg/sec (4×1037 Watt)."[3]

It's been estimated that human civilization is now at a level of 0.74, so not quite I. :yh:

-Alex

IMHO a civilization capable of harvesting a star is likely to have found an even better alternative.

Consider that if we are indeed living in a multiverse, that rather than spend lot's of energy to expand outward in space a civilization learns to move through, and eventually live in, higher dimensions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsgoXvnStY

Advanced civilizations might not be about expanding, they might be about transcending.

It would explain why we haven't seen any.

 

[Skans]

I make no opinion on whether or not we live in a "multiverse", as I have no evidence one way or the other to support such an opinion. Although, I tend to doubt parallel or even not so parallel universes exist. However, if there is/are other universes essentially occupying part of the same space as ours, they will be physically alien to ours. We would have as much chance of visiting or surviving in such a universe as I do of living inside of a 2-dimensional line.

 

[Benm]

They might be alien to us, but if we can interact with them could still be very useful.

Let's say that one is somewhat similar to ours, but exremely hot or cold. If you could somehow stick the end of a heatsink through a bridge between them you could harness a great amount of energy from just the difference in temperature.

This is ofcourse pure science fiction at the moment.

As for what advanced civilizations would want to do, we have no clue. On earth more advanced ones certainly colonized the others, but they were not that far apart at the time. Resources found in the third world were useful to the first and later second world, and still are.

These resources are mostly tangible goods ranging from spices to fossil fuels to valuable elements and are still moving around the globe now. For a civilisation that had, for lack of a better example, a star trek replicator and abundant energy to power that, these areas would not be interesting at all.

Obviously replicators do not exist as far as we know and might not be possible or practical, leaving the option that some civilisation could strip mine earth for it's resources, or the other way around given time and physics breakthroughs.

 

[AaronT]

Will the Large Hadron Collider find a parallel universe? Particle smasher could become a gateway to alternate realities, say scientists

-Scientists predict gravity can sometimes leak into an extra dimension
-If this happens, it will create tiny black holes that can be found by LHC
-LHC has failed to find any, but study claims it has gravity model wrong
-Theory says it should be looking for black holes at higher energy levels
-The LHC is due to be turned back on next week with double the energy

The cutting edge where science fiction becomes science fact.



There is also this guy, even Hawking and Susskind are saying to keep an eye on him.
Gavin Wince - The Perfect Cosmological Principle | Return of the Steady State Universe

 

[Benm]

Science and the media... rarely a lucky combination i'm affraid.

Perhaps the LHC could actually create very small black holes. These will not devour the planet, bring aliens, cause rifts in spacetime or anything else. Black holes of the weight available in the LHC's particles are so light they will instantly evaporate due to hawking radiation, the only 'effect' would be a very brief flash of light. It would be interesting if it happened, but nothing 'new' in terms of science.

 

[Razako]

Seems like some cool movie plots though. The LHC opening a gateway to Hell/Aliens/Another dimensions etc.

 

[H2Oxide]

Seems like some cool movie plots though. The LHC opening a gateway to Hell/Aliens/Another dimensions etc.

Yeah, but then there'd be an even larger public outcry every time the LHC tried anything new.

 

[NightExplorer96]

Just finished watching "The Last Days On Mars"! Awesome movie, which combines infections and space. I absolutely loves movies like that!

I really hope in my lifetime I get the chance of setting foot on another planet. I mean, how cool would that be!

-Alex

 

[AaronT]

Yeah, but then there'd be an even larger public outcry every time the LHC tried anything new.

It's not so much that the LHC could make a gateway or even act like a telephone.

It's more about being able to prove if gravity is weak (relative to other forces) because it is spread over multiple dimensions. Or it is due to another effect such as being spread across multiple time dimensions. (assuming 3 dimensions of time produce the gravity effect)

The Higgs was confirmed, understanding how that particle works may lead to vastly more sensitive ways to detect/measure gravity and/or new ways of detecting particles.

Some of these particles may move independently of time or space. The simplest of those is using two quantum entangled particles to transmit data instantly regardless of distance.

Stanfords Quantum Entanglement Device

There is also the EmDrive and Cannae Drive that we don't really understand quite yet (some are saying it is a quantum effect) but have been tested and validated.

Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center.
They performed three tests:
The device as the inventor designed it.
The device as the inventor designed it without the slotting that the inventor claimed was critical. (Called the "null test".)
A control test that used the same energy, but without the cavity present in the design.
The results of these tests were as follows:
Approximately 25 micronewtons of thrust at 50 Watts.
The same results as test #1, showing that at the very least, the slotting provided no benefit or detriment to the effect happening.
No measurable thrust.
For each of these tests they use a torsion pendulum which could measure thrust down to about 10 micronewtons or so. They also ran the test multiple times. In addition, they ran the test in two directions, making sure that the directional thrust changed with the direction of the device (to attempt to eliminate the possibility of noise or instrumentation error). The Cannae Drive passed these test, and the control test showed it was unlikely (although not impossible) to be a heating or air current effect.

EmDrive Tests

The following independent tests have been performed for the EmDrive.
A test at 2500 W of power during which a thrust of 750 millinewtons was measured by a Chinese team at the Chinese Northwestern Polytechnical University.
A test at 50 W of power during which a thrust of 50 micronewtons was measured by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center at ~760 Torr of pressure. (Summer 2014)
A test at 50 W of power during which a thrust of 50 micronewtons was measured by Eagleworks at the Johnson Space Center at ~5.0×10−6 torr or pressure. (Early 2015)
A test at 50 W of power during which an interferometer (a modified Michelson device) was used to measure the stretching and compressing of spacetime within the device, which produced initial results that were consistent with an Alcubierre drive fluctuation.

I have been following the Alcubierre drive theory since it was proposed in 1994 but it had never been tested. When I seen the NASA results for the EmDrive I was ecstatic.

Questions on EmDrive boil down to.
A. Exactly what is causing the thrust?
B. How efficiently can this thrust be produced.
C. At what point would the device have the best thrust/weight ratio. (Early math says it is better than chemical and even ion thrusters).

For example a probe using Emdrive would reach Pluto in 9 months.

New Horizons (fastest spacecraft yet built) took 9.5 years.

 

[AaronT]

I just found an experiment.

12 Watt Optical Laser EmDrive

I may really really want some of the new NUBM08E diodes...