Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

rhd · Nov 27, 2011

That's a really good idea -

Shipping damage isn't binary. You can have a non-visible non-apparent degree of shipping damage that manifests into a more apparent problem later.

I've never dealt with USPS, but the bottom line is that you need to KNOW what's wrong with the laser before you can explore this (or any other really) avenue.

Gas Can · Nov 27, 2011

The Laptop excuse is weak. Its like saying, I know Im liable but sorry, buyer beware. Sure you sold it used but you said it works great. It did not work great. To me its a question of what's the right thing to do? I value my integrity so if it were me, Id refund him. You can get it fixed and resell it.

edit: I know, it wasnt your fault it broke and you seem like a good guy. Im just the type to make it right

swimminsurfer256 · Nov 27, 2011

Gas Can said:
The Laptop excuse is weak. Its like saying, I know Im liable but sorry, buyer beware. Sure you sold it used but you said it works great. It did not work great. To me its a question of what's the right thing to do? I value my integrity so if it were me, Id refund him. You can get it fixed and resell it.

It's not an excuse! It's an explanation for why I have no money to spare. I'm still a little in credit card debt as it is.. I still stand by the fact that it did work great. I don't know how the device was treated. Like I said earlier, if it was DOA it would be a different story.

zdarkazn · Nov 27, 2011

Ghostchrome said:
So have you tried taking a look inside at all? $400 bucks is a tough pill to swallow, but come on dude, it was running fine until it pooped out.

Lol, as if i know that much about argons..timelablasers said its costly to fix anyways..

spyrorocks said:
There is a possibility it could be an issue with damage during shipping. I suggest exploring the option of getting some money out of the insurance, but usps is probably hell to deal with on that.

I cant open a claim without the transaction number from the actual shipping receipt, which swimmin does NOT have. Its been open, they asked me to provide the transaction number..i couldnt. ):

Ghostchrome said:
Yeah, for sure try to get the shipping company to pay insurance. It could be that something got jiggled a bit too vigorously.

Same as above

spyrorocks said:
Don't think for a second usps will let go of any money, you will probably have to fight them like crazy to get anything out of them.

Same as above

rhd said:
That's a really good idea -

Shipping damage isn't binary. You can have a non-visible non-apparent degree of shipping damage that manifests into a more apparent problem later.

I've never dealt with USPS, but the bottom line is that you need to KNOW what's wrong with the laser before you can explore this (or any other really) avenue.

Same as above

Gas Can said:
The Laptop excuse is weak. Its like saying, I know Im liable but sorry, buyer beware. Sure you sold it used but you said it works great. It did not work great. To me its a question of what's the right thing to do? I value my integrity so if it were me, Id refund him. You can get it fixed and resell it.

He wont even split the cost half/half, so i doubt he would even refund

spyrorocks · Nov 27, 2011

Ouch, swim, its a really good practice to keep receipts from shipping stuff for at least 60 days after it goes out... did you lose the receipt?

swimminsurfer256 · Nov 27, 2011

zdarkazn said:
He wont even split the cost half/half, so i doubt he would even refund

Thanks for making me sound like that. I said I don't have money to refund you with. You already opened a PayPal dispute anyways which resulted in freezing the small amount of funds I had left to pay off some of my debt.. We're going to have to wait for that to be resolved.

spyrorocks said:
Ouch, swim, its a really good practice to keep receipts from shipping stuff for at least 60 days after it goes out... did you lose the receipt?

I just wasn't given a receipt like he's talking about. Our campus post office doesn't give them I guess. I have the insurance receipt which I sent him a copy of. Plus the packaging has the other part of the insurance receipt on it. I thought that was enough.

zdarkazn · Nov 27, 2011

swimminsurfer256 said:
Thanks for making me sound like that. I said I don't have money to refund you with. You already opened a PayPal dispute anyways which resulted in freezing the small amount of funds I had left to pay off some of my debt.. We're going to have to wait for that to be resolved.

I just wasn't given a receipt like he's talking about. Our campus post office doesn't give them I guess. I have the insurance receipt which I sent him a copy of. Plus the packaging has the other part of the insurance receipt on it. I thought that was enough.

You werent able to provide me a shipping receipt so i had no choice but to open a dispute..If you refund me $200, i would be willing to drop the dispute right now.

jcranmer · Nov 27, 2011

@zdarkazn: My argon (not at all the same model) has a "tamper" switch inside. It's a small switch that opens when the cover is removed that kills the power until the case is properly seated again. It's to keep you from zapping yourself by having it running with the case open. Is it at all possible that this switch is open? I don't know if you have had the cover off or not, but it's possible this switch is open?

I'm not at all recommending that you take it apart, because that could make a bad situation even worse if you don't know what you are doing inside there, but if you have already opened it up, you might want to look for such a switch. Please keep in mind there are some very high voltages inside!

zdarkazn · Nov 27, 2011

jcranmer said:
@zdarkazn: My argon (not at all the same model) has a "tamper" switch inside. It's a small switch that opens when the cover is removed that kills the power until the case is properly seated again. It's to keep you from zapping yourself by having it running with the case open. Is it at all possible that this switch is open? I don't know if you have had the cover off or not, but it's possible this switch is open?

I'm not at all recommending that you take it apart, because that could make a bad situation even worse if you don't know what you are doing inside there, but if you have already opened it up, you might want to look for such a switch. Please keep in mind there are some very high voltages inside!

I dont wanna damage anything further..i dont even know anything about argons. Best thing would be to take it to dave, but im kind of thinking he'll tell me what timelablasers told me. And swimmin said he would only give me $150 back if i returned it.. ):

swimminsurfer256 · Nov 27, 2011

zdarkazn said:
I dont wanna damage anything further..i dont even know anything about argons. Best thing would be to take it to dave, but im kind of thinking he'll tell me what timelablasers told me. And swimmin said he would only give me $150 back if i returned it.. ):

Maybe we should post my recent *private* messages (PM) [the last two of which I have addressed the refund issue and you haven't even responded] here for the world to see so they don't hear your shortened versions of them (i.e. "he won't refund me" or "he is only going to refund me this much" when my messages were quite a bit more detailed and explaining than that). I'm getting a little irked that you just are broadcasting dumbed down, explanation-less versions (primed in a negative way to make me look bad) of my attempts at offering a refund on a purchase that I did not even offer ANY returns/refunds on in the first place on a negative thread you created about me before even letting the PayPal dispute resolve/even trying to reach some sort of compromise.

zdarkazn · Nov 27, 2011

swimminsurfer256 said:
Maybe we should post my recent *private* messages (PM) [the last two of which I have addressed the refund issue and you haven't even responded] here for the world to see so they don't hear your shortened versions of them (i.e. "he won't refund me" or "he is only going to refund me this much" when my messages were quite a bit more detailed and explaining than that). I'm getting a little irked that you just are broadcasting dumbed down, explanation-less versions (primed in a negative way to make me look bad) of my attempts at offering a refund on a purchase that I did not even offer ANY returns/refunds on in the first place on a negative thread you created about me before even letting the PayPal dispute resolve/even trying to reach some sort of compromise.

Sure..

swimminsurfer256 said:
The problem for me is that I literally have no spare money right now and even am in a little bit of debt. And also I didn't offer any refund or return and it wasn't DOA... I do feel badly about what happened but there isn't anything I can do about it.

Are you saying that because you're in debt that its okay for you to sell me untested stuff? I know how you feel right now..but how would you feel if i sold you a used laptop(you were saving money for one) and it died after you started using it for your work?

swimminsurfer256 said:
If I were to work out a plan, I would have to worry about the damages caused by me not having funds available since my PayPal account had $400 frozen (throwing me negative balance plus keeping me in debt on credit cards). The absolute most I would be willing to refund is $150 plus have the item returned to me (I wouldn't be able to pay for a while since I have no money). I'm thinking mostly about extra interest I've accrued in the past two weeks from the frozen $400 in my PayPal not being able to pay off debt, my insurance costs for insurance you didn't use/pursue, etc... I've never missed a credit card payment in my life until these funds were needlessly frozen in this account.
I don't want you to think that I'm attacking you or being purposefully nasty or mean or anything.. I just really don't have money right now.

I asked for $200 which is half/half, yet you seem unwilling to give up anything and only want to give me $150 AND make me ship the laser back to you..giving me only $100 after s/h. You call this an attempt at a refund..? Okay, you say you're in debt, you're only thinking about yourself.. Think of other people's lives too. I just requested to cancel 2 laser purchases(ebay sale) after having sent the money due to my sister being in a car accident. Those sellers could have shipped me the item anyways and disregarded my message and i couldnt have done anything about it, but they were nice enough to refund me. You're extremely lucky this wasnt an ebay sale..your attempt at a "works great" description would not work..

rhd · Nov 27, 2011

Why don't you guys:

1) Mitigate the loss by trying to sell the unit, accurately described with what you know about it, and the issue. Describe it properly, as a unit that was working, and just stopped. Put in all the info you need to ethically sell it.

2) Then take the $400, subtract from it the salvage value (whatever it sells for) and then you have your actual loss.

3) Split the actual loss.

So, if it can be sold for say $150 - take $400, and subtract the $150 salvage value. Now you've got an actual loss of $250. So Zdard shoulders $125 of it, and Swim shoulders $125 of it.

Right now, ZDark is shouldering all $400. So the $150 salvage funds would go to him. Then he's still shouldering $250 of the loss. Swim would have to then refund him $125.

So in that scenario, both parts end up out the same amount. Swim has to come up with an additional $125 to refund Zdark. Zdark gets some of his $400 back, in the form of $150 from the salvage sale, and $125 from Swim.

Of course -that presumes there is some salvage value.

zdarkazn · Nov 27, 2011

rhd said:
Why don't you guys:

1) Mitigate the loss by trying to sell the unit, accurately described with what you know about it, and the issue. Describe it properly, as a unit that was working, and just stopped. Put in all the info you need to ethically sell it.

2) Then take the $400, subtract from it the salvage value (whatever it sells for) and then you have your actual loss.

3) Split the actual loss.

So, if it can be sold for say $150 - take $400, and subtract the $150 salvage value. Now you've got an actual loss of $250. So Zdard shoulders $125 of it, and Swim shoulders $125 of it.

Right now, ZDark is shouldering all $400. So the $150 salvage funds would go to him. Then he's still shouldering $250 of the loss. Swim would have to then refund him $125.

So in that scenario, both parts end up out the same amount. Swim has to come up with an additional $125 to refund Zdark. Zdark gets some of his $400 back, in the form of $150 from the salvage sale, and $125 from Swim.

Of course -that presumes there is some salvage value.

Nice idea. timelablasers offered to buy..lol. Didnt ask how much though

jcranmer · Nov 27, 2011

You also mentioned having Dave look at it. If you are at all close to him so you don't have to pay for the shipping and Dave is willing, that would be the first thing I would do. There are actually a number of things that could be an easy fix. (Fuses, tamper switches, loose connections from shipping)

benmwv · Nov 27, 2011

zdarkazn said:
I asked for $200 which is half/half, yet you seem unwilling to give up anything and only want to give me $150 AND make me ship the laser back to you..giving me only $100 after s/h. You call this an attempt at a refund..? Okay, you say you're in debt, you're only thinking about yourself.. Think of other people's lives too. I just requested to cancel 2 laser purchases(ebay sale) after having sent the money due to my sister being in a car accident. Those sellers could have shipped me the item anyways and disregarded my message and i couldnt have done anything about it, but they were nice enough to refund me. You're extremely lucky this wasnt an ebay sale..your attempt at a "works great" description would not work..

Now I know it would really suck for this to happen, but I think you are being very unreasonable.

You bought a used laser that did work that was sold as no returns or refunds with a description that it worked. While it may not have been quite up to par with a new argon laser when you received it, you have to remember that this wasn't a new laser. He had no way to know it would stop working. I really think you have no leg to stand on here, considering it was stated no return or refunds as long as it wasn't DOA. That pretty much means "as is", as long as it arrives working.

And now that you are offered a partial refund (which you were lucky he even considered it, especially after you opened a dispute against him) you complain that it's not enough and that you have to return the laser. Well surely you didn't expect to A. Get a full refund given the item was sold as no return or refund, and B. Simply claim it doesn't work and get free money without having to send it back.

I think you should either accept his offer (which I think is more than generous, considering the circumstances of the trade) or go with rhd's idea and sell it to recoup your lost money (but I think in this case swimminsurfer shouldn't have to give him any money).

zdarkazn · Nov 27, 2011

benmwv said:
Now I know it would really suck for this to happen, but I think you are being very unreasonable.

You bought a used laser that did work that was sold as no returns or refunds with a description that it worked. While it may not have been quite up to par with a new argon laser when you received it, you have to remember that this wasn't a new laser. He had no way to know it would stop working. I really think you have no leg to stand on here, considering it was stated no return or refunds as long as it wasn't DOA. That pretty much means "as is", as long as it arrives working.

And now that you are offered a partial refund (which you were lucky he even considered it, especially after you opened a dispute against him) you complain that it's not enough and that you have to return the laser. Well surely you didn't expect to A. Get a full refund given the item was sold as no return or refund, and B. Simply claim it doesn't work and get free money without having to send it back.

I think you should either accept his offer (which I think is more than generous, considering the circumstances of the trade) or go with rhd's idea and sell it to recoup your lost money (but I think in this case swimminsurfer shouldn't have to give him any money).

You're forgetting the fact that a USED item is FULLY functional. An fully functional argon is able to idle on low power for over an hour..this one didnt even reach an hour. How is that MY fault that the laser isnt fully functional? It didnt even perform as intended..they're meant to run for long periods of time..thats the main reason i even bought it in the first place, which is why i stated i wouldnt have bought it he had stated that he only tested it for 10-20 minutes in the first place.

Bad Experience with SwimminSurfer256

rhd

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Gas Can

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swimminsurfer256

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zdarkazn

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spyrorocks

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swimminsurfer256

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zdarkazn

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jcranmer

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zdarkazn

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swimminsurfer256

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zdarkazn

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rhd

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jcranmer

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