Fail this was not necessary!

twhite828 said:

If that was sarcasm or a true statement - it was totally lost on me.

Are you poking fun at the complexity of the issue? Or have I totally missed your point? :thinking:

Trevor

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If you believe it is really THAT complex, then yes. If you cannot see it by simply looking at their behavior, you are BLIND, sir.

HumanSymphony said:

If you believe it is really THAT complex, then yes. If you cannot see it by simply looking at their behavior, you are BLIND, sir.

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When I look at their behavior I see a learned association between humans and well-being - not genuine love or whatever else one wants to call it. Only my opinion though.

Though it annoys me when someone will look at a cat's "facial expression" and interpret it as "concern" or some other human emotion - when it is in reality the neutral "expression." What is it with people and animals with big eyes?

Trevor

twhite828 said:

When I look at their behavior I see a learned association between humans and well-being - not genuine love or whatever else one wants to call it. Only my opinion though.

Though it annoys me when someone will look at a cat's "facial expression" and interpret it as "concern" or some other human emotion - when it is in reality the neutral "expression." What is it with people and animals with big eyes?

Trevor

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I don't know, sir. Their behavior is not far off from a human. One of the most obvious things being they protect their young. Dogs will protect their owners in this same fashion. If they can feel that emotion with their babies, why couldn't they feel the same for something else (namely a human)?

I half agree with you on the facial expression thing, but they do in fact change. Such as when my cats come into my room and see my rats. There is an obvious distinct change in their facial expression lol.

HumanSymphony said:

I don't know, sir. Their behavior is not far off from a human. One of the most obvious things being they protect their young. Dogs will protect their owners in this same fashion. If they can feel that emotion with their babies, why couldn't they feel the same for something else (namely a human)?

I half agree with you on the facial expression thing, but they do in fact change. Such as when my cats come into my room and see my rats. There is an obvious distinct change in their facial expression lol.

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Humans exhibit learned behaviors and instincts (like protection of young - an instinct that prevents exinction more than exhibits genuine concern) too, though. I think it all boils down to our respective opinions on animal consciousness versus human consciousness. Dogs are an interesting animal (pun not intended) because of all the research that's been done about them (for example, dogs are the only species that can respond to humans pointing - even chimps and dolphins can't do this - making them a good human interface).

Cats certainly have a lot of facial "expressions," absolutely. It's funny how the neutral one is interpreted by people as love, confusion, surprise, concern, etc.

Trevor

Sidenote: I think I have more of an issue with cat owners elevating the animal to something near the status of deity - rather than the cats themselves. Has to do with that girl I dated in high school that's mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

thats just fucking wrong, humans are so sick.

twhite828 said:

Humans exhibit learned behaviors and instincts (like protection of young - an instinct that prevents exinction more than exhibits genuine concern) too, though. I think it all boils down to our respective opinions on animal consciousness versus human consciousness. Dogs are an interesting animal (pun not intended) because of all the research that's been done about them (for example, dogs are the only species that can respond to humans pointing - even chimps and dolphins can't do this - making them a good human interface).

Cats certainly have a lot of facial "expressions," absolutely. It's funny how the neutral one is interpreted by people as love, confusion, surprise, concern, etc.

Trevor

Sidenote: I think I have more of an issue with cat owners elevating the animal to something near the status of deity - rather than the cats themselves. Has to do with that girl I dated in high school that's mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

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Well yes, on the matter of consciousness I wouldn't say they have the same mindset as humans do. They are rather good at problem solving though.

Yes, the the neutral expression shouldn't be interpreted as anything but neutral lol. They do have true expressions and you can in fact tell. Such as a couple months ago when one of my cats broke its leg. It was another one of my cats that brought me to it. Not only could I tell it was concerned by the look on its face, but it was meowing like crazy. They do show a lot of expression through body language and vocalization.

EDIT: Also, I do believe this proves they do have a sense of caring. As my cat was concerned for the well-being of his friend

Now, I wouldn't go as far as to call them deities lol. Really over the years I've just studied them on my own. Not intentionally, just stuffed I've noticed and observed about them.

HumanSymphony said:

Not only could I tell it was concerned by the look on its face, but it was meowing like crazy. They do show a lot of expression through body language and vocalization.

EDIT: Also, I do believe this proves they do have a sense of caring. As my cat was concerned for the well-being of his friend

I see where you're coming from - I'm of the opinion it's a mix of instinct and acquired group mentality; though that sounds a whole lot like 'concern' - just put in a scientific way. So it's exhibited, perhaps just not to the same degree as humans?

Now, I wouldn't go as far as to call them deities lol. Really over the years I've just studied them on my own. Not intentionally, just stuffed I've noticed and observed about them.

"Deities" was an exaggeration on my part to make the point that some people do put pets on pedestals to an insane degree sometimes.

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Good points.

Trevor

twhite828 said:

...and here we see one of the reasons I have a hearty distaste for cats.

Trevor

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Yeah... I wouldn't intentionally eat a cat either...:crackup::crackup:
even though I order Chinese Food once in a while....


Jerry

Well Jerry don't order the pup foo young then---- page 23 in '100 Ways To Wok Your Dog' JUST KIDDIN' GUYS- In general I like most animals a little more than most humans. I have always felt it does more harm than good to attach so many human emotions to our pets. 'Conversations' with a dog or cat don't work, its how you say it not the words you use.--<(*-*)>--

hakzaw1 said:

Well Jerry don't order the pup foo young then---- page 23 in '100 Ways To Wok Your Dog' JUST KIDDIN' GUYS- In general I like most animals a little more than most humans. I have always felt it does more harm than good to attach so many human emotions to our pets. 'Conversations' with a dog or cat don't work, its how you say it not the words you use.--<(*-*)>--

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ROFL....:crackup::crackup:
Sure lets you vent though... :crackup:

Jerry

Cats are so cute when there kittens...right. So lets say for a moment that your parents or whatever found out that you brought home that lovable kitten.

Well two weeks go by and one of your parents has been sneezing to beat the band.
"The cats goto go"! MOM, DAD says. What do you do at this point... dunno? I do.

My point is that Many people see these as cute and cuddly kittens, but for some unseen reason or just a mental sickness people just pawn them off down the road.

(very rarely do people take the initiative to do the proper due diligence).

I know what your going to say and be mindful to the fact that this does happen.

They would in turn lets this kitten go and then it grows up has X amount of litters and the cycle goes round and round again.

in my earlier post I didn't mention that I live behind a local cat Dr. you know, one of those chain stores that do easy in out cat check-ups... One day I was in the backyard and witnessed them releasing cats into the neighborhood. I confronted them and was blatantly lied to about this saying "they spayed that cat and returned it where they found it".

About 5 weeks later that cat was MUCH-O pregnant. Lucky me... more joy and stench to add to the hood. And the whole time that nice little Ol lady neighbor of mine makes sure that their food bowl is always full... how nice. This has been going on for
well ever since the cat DR. opened up about 2 years now. Before this it was a 1 cat per person place sweet place. Now it's like cat crap city!. Yummy.

PS have'nt heard a bird singing in a while now...maybe their a little warry of the large pride of cats in the area. YES I"M VERY FRUSTRATED WITH THIS CAUSE I'M BUSY
WITH WORK, KID, FAMILY, AND I'M ALSO NOW A YOUTH COACH so being diplomatic about this has run it's course. Thank you and have a good day.

Whew! I feel better now I should have posted this in the rants thread.

Now that you have explained your dilemma... I can understand your frustration.

Is there no Animal Control agency in your area...:thinking:
Have you got to the City Hall to make an official complaint...:thinking:
or aired you views at a once a month Town Hall meeting...:thinking:

No action on your part = No results on their part...

Just my


Jerry

Jerry, I have called the animal control...they came out and immediately gave my neighbors the option to stop feeding them or face a $1400.00 US fine.:undecided:

Thats when I was approached by the man of the house wanting to to know who I thought I was for calling the cops on them for feeding helpless homeless cats.

I called him out in a loud manner with the intent to have him take a sniff test of my entry area... they could care less.

I've seen that they now bring in the food bowl when the cats are done. There hellbent:eg: on this behavior.

I know... I'll be the block prick for following up on this, and the lady who's feeding them is how... should I say entrenched in the neighborhood and when I drive by I see the people pointing there goes the cat killer when in fact I have not killed one.

These neighbors of mine, I know for fact have killed 2 just backing out of their drive-ways
turns out the cats like to crawl up into the motor and when you crank it up
blammo.

I have a 08' 4 door Jeep... I love this vehicle every day I leave for work I have to stare at the paw print as they have a orgy on it.

Just short of a front yard WWE brawl or a shootout or living with the there goes the neighborhood animal hater( not true) I'm stuck... Thanks for the liberal political
correctness groups out there... can't even say God bless you in public when somebody sneezes anymore.

I'm just waiting my neighbors out on this...:shhh: it's a little thing in life, but man winter is comming and in FL
it's grilling time and backyard camping, and last time I mowed my back yard it was just the worst smelling in every way. :undecided:

PS. remember cats don't CRAP where they are feed... so if your feeding stray cats look over at your neighbors and see if they've been invaded cause this is a bad situation to be in trust me. If she was to stop feeding them they would move on... I'm sure of this.

Maybe you should feed the cats... then they could crap at the neighbor's
houses...
Good luck with that... I'm just lucky I live in a rural area and my closest
neighbor is about 1/4 mile away...
See no evil.... do now evil...:eg:

Jerry

Yea! if I feed them then I'm no better than them. ya! know... there is no easy answer.

Anybody know a good how to book on getting thru to leftist libral idiot cat feeding goofs.

Use the [Search] Button......:crackup::crackup::crackup:
Couldn't help my self...:crackup:

Jerry