Old 05-13-2014, 03:58 AM #1
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Default STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

OUR EYES?? WRONG ANSWER
Turns out low levels of power that are not actually dangerous to our eyes can damage you camera-

There seems to be no one thread addressing this and that is IMHO an oversight-

The awesome pics we see here are great to see BUT if you are unsure how to protect your cameras --finding out the hard way will be costly --

this link will get you started-- any other advice or links are more than just welcome here---- we need to read all we can--

Just like our eyes direct shots are the most dangerous--
unlike our eyes there is NO healing-one burnt pixels is gone forever-
Like our eyes the camera lens make this much worse-

see this link from ILDA_-

Laser safety for cameras - International Laser Display Association

more links coming-

BTW at LEMs we have full access which means you can go into the danger zones-where both eye ands camera damage can happen real fast


So at a properly set up non LEM show should be both eye and camera safe-

in theory at least- post your burnt pixels shot here please to show what can happen(csshih hint hint)


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Old 05-13-2014, 07:34 AM #2
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakzaw1 View Post
unlike our eyes there is NO healing
If anyone new to laser safety is reading this, this doesn't mean your eyes will recover completely from any laser damage. This should be obvious but people keep surprising me with their lack of common sense so I had to post this.

Last edited by magus; 05-13-2014 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:40 AM #3
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

A good thing though, with a burnt pixel, you can buy a new camera. With a burnt retina, you're stuck with it for the rest of your life.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:47 PM #4
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

what is your problem?? have nothing better to do than stalk my posts and threads?? --

you may care nothing about your camera but most here do..

Admin/mods make threads stickies- a 'vote' is rare-
its NOT a sticky until that happens- but I am free to put that word in any title I want--

All your negitivity will bring you neg rep if you keep this up-you do not know me and never will -
your time would have been better spent reading the link-- some cameras get damaged by a laser that would not really harm our eyes- we close our eyes a camera cannot--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakzaw1
unlike our eyes there is NO healing


@ magas
"If anyone new to laser safety is reading this, this doesn't mean your eyes will recover completely from any laser damage. This should be obvious but people keep surprising me with their lack of common sense so I had to post this. "


I did not mean our eye can heal from EVERY laser accident but WILL heal when the exposure is slight--I never said what you assumed.

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Old 05-15-2014, 04:07 PM #5
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

I like this thread, as it's something a lot may overlook. Once you're accustomed to dealing with lasers, the threat to eye sight becomes less and less, as you learn what to do and what not to do, and have the proper eye protection.

The safety of the camera is mostly not even mentioned, and is something to keep in mind as well, especially those that spend hundreds on a camera, if not 1,000+ on a DSLR setup.
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Old 05-15-2014, 04:29 PM #6
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

TY-- I think you are correct--
We involuntary blink or close our eyes in around 1/4th of a second- a camera cannot do that

-- and before someone comes here and twists my words I am by NO means saying that eye protection should be taken lightly-- BUt there has not been a lot of info posted about camera damage.




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Old 05-16-2014, 12:33 AM #7
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

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Originally Posted by BubonicCronic View Post
Doesnt the admin Sticky a thread? I thought members had to vote to get a thread Stickied. But I guess you found a way to bypass that.
You're very presumptuous trying to Sticky your own thread. Might be a good idea to change it. Everyone could get the idea to Sticky their own threads. Then all the threads on the forum would be Stickied. Chaos would ensue. Then we'd have dogs and cats dating. It would rain raisins and blueberries. The whole fabric of time could distort and we could be driving around in steam powered Yugos while fending off T-Rex attacks with laser sighted sling shots.

Not a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubonicCronic View Post
Oh NO please no neg rep. My life would be shattered. A red square is not going to change my opinions or what I believe in. You guys take this forum thing way to serious. Some of you guys need to get a life off the forum. You've obviously been here way to long.

I'm not stalking your threads Hakzaw. I come across your threads and the things I read from you goes against everything I've seen on all the other forums I belong to. Like calling dibbs for other people. Padding group buys. And now Sticking your own threads. No other forum would allow this presumptuous behavior. It was very mature of you to add another Sticky to the title of the thread. You're like 75 right?

If it makes you feel powerful throwing red boxes at me then go for it.
I sense contradicting statements. You say he is being "too serious", yet you apparently care a lot about what he posts. And you cant compare LPF to any other forum, because, and im not sure if you know this or not, there is no other LPF. No 2 forums are the same, they are all their own separate communities.
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:46 AM #8
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Default Re: STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Also, you making all this crap up is getting really annoying. Nowhere has anyone said Hak has "a deep need of acceptance", or "tries to be popular". furthermore, the fact that you said, and heres a nice quote for you all: " I'd bet further if he disappeared for two weeks he'd only get a few people who would seek him out to find out if he was OK". Wow- horrible thing to say. Hak is a respected member of this forum, and you are the only one with a problem.

You constantly saying that Hak is no more than a teenage girl is really getting quite annoying (as well as being completely false). To me it looks like you are making a desperate stab for attention with everything you post. And saying "im addicted to the study of human nature" is not a valid excuse for being a dick.

Im going to block you now, before i get myself in trouble. Hak, i suggest you do the same.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:18 AM #9
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Default Re: STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Must not feed trolls...
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:41 AM #10
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakzaw1 View Post
I did not mean our eye can heal from EVERY laser accident but WILL heal when the exposure is slight--I never said what you assumed.
And I never said that's what you meant.
I warned newcomers what not to assume from what you said.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:40 PM #11
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Quote:
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And I never said that's what you meant.
I warned newcomers what not to assume from what you said.
But you are also a newcomer. Hak is in no way saying to ignore eye safety. It's just a warning to make sure you also keep the camera in mind while taking pictures, because the sensor can get damaged much like your eyes.

It's hard to think of a reasonable comparison, but off the top of my head I can come up with this example:

Some people have balisongs, or butterfly knives, and they do tricks with them. Now, they recommend to try new tricks over carpet or grass, so when the knife falls, it doesn't get damaged. Along with how to hold the knife, some people also tape the blade in case they mess up.

So in this example, the main thing to consider, obviously, is the protection of your fingers/hands, so you don't get cut up. However, notice how it is also mentioned to protect the knife from damage too. If you watch videos on youtube, they won't say "to heck with the knife, only care about your fingers", they mention both.

I think Hak makes a valid point, and there should be a sticky that at least mentions the possibility of destroying your expensive camera when snapping pictures, with examples of people who damaged their camera in this way. It's a valid concern and he's not trying to dumb down eye safety.
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<+GBD> get a 240V variac and some multiplier :P
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<+vk2fro> on camping trips where do you expect me to plug that in? a gum tree?

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Old 05-16-2014, 09:26 PM #12
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Default Re: STICKY-Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus_Darkrose View Post
But you are also a newcomer.
In my first post I said I was posting that for anyone "new to lasers". That's what I mean by newcomer, not someone new to the forum.

Quote:
Hak is in no way saying to ignore eye safety.
And I'm not saying he is.
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:31 AM #13
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Default Re: STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

I think every experience photographer knows that excess light can damage a camera. This goes for taking photos of the sun with large aperture as well as making photo's of lasershows and such.

The difference probably is that people taking photos of lasershows will want to capture some of the laser movement and choose long shutter time. As the environment is relatively dark they may also use large aperture openings to catch good imagery of the crowd and such. The combination of long exposure, large aperture and powerful lasers can certainly damage a camera, even if a situation that is eye-safe.

A major difference is the cost of the damage though: a laser show could damage the sensor, but is not likely to damage expensive lenses and such. So the maximum loss is either a complete consumer camera, or the sensor chip on an expensive dslr (or the body of a cheaper dslr, whichever costs less to replace).

I agree people should be aware of this, but the maximum damage is probably under $500 (sensor replacement on an expensive dslr). In contrast the damage to an eye cannot be expressed in terms of money: it is not even possible to transplant a retina (unlike a cornea), so one cannot put any price tag on it, unless you're an insurance salesman.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:03 AM #14
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Default Re: STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

Very sorry my point was taken the wrong way-
it was not my opinion- It was something we were taught at the LSO course from ILDA-
And its a fact that the lowest amount of pixel damaging laser light is not high enouh to cause any major damage- we blink- look away or cover our eyes as a reflex- longest exposure is generally set at .25 seconds- the camera does not blink- so-

I also want to apoligize for using 'sticky' in my title - it was a typo and i meant 'Stinky'==

BTW I have almost have NEVER negged any members and certianly not any in this thread-

-- So if the thread derailing is over maybe those of us who want to learn how to NOT damage our cameras can get back on topic--

TY Ben - good stuff- +5
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:11 AM #15
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Default Re: STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

guys. just watch out for your cameras (the point of this thread, not shunning eye saftey one bit) and shut up about everything else
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:59 AM #16
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Default Re: STICKY-STICKY!!!Eye or camera damage which is in most danger??

I have been very lucky- hundreds of pics taken at four SELEM events and a few here in Texas and no burnt pixels to date--

I was reluctant to switch to digital- still using film for a long time- its what I learned on and i do miss the darkroom- and the time exposures--

- I always had access to nice labs in college- free chemicals- and the best everything- after I graduated I always had a darkroom of my own-- I carried all of it from Ohio to Florida then here from Florida and set it up only once in many years-

printed some B&W off old negs (WoodStock '69)- then we lost the building lease so back into boxes it all went- I finally got tired of storing all the stuff and no one would buy it so i put it on Yahoo Freecycle and gave at away to two guys who said they would use it- still sitting on two Nikon Fs and seven lenses--

I try to keep the beams from going directly into my eyes or my lens- I use my older cameras- and keep my fingers crossed--

Basically there are just a few good 'common' still laser pics

Inside the tunnel= or boxes etc

under or over a fan 0r wave--Liquid sky

these are more dramitic if you are either looking at the beam or down the beam (from behind) of the two behind the laser is cersainly the safer for the digital camera.

I have some more links to share soon on lasers and cameras --

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405 100mW ttl mini lab
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