Old 05-13-2010, 01:25 AM #49
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by kingdave2357 View Post
Little harsh dont ya think? I dont care for noobs either, but there is a difference between the morons here to troll, and the people actually trying to get along with other members, both you and I were 'noobs' here once.

Rayfoss has had some great rep around here, and still does IMO as well, however just because its considered a 'discount' site doesnt mean they can get away with selling underspec products, thats what DX does and look what we all think of DX(>20mW). Its acceptable for a site like rayfoss to have some slight differences in power compared to its rating, but if faona gives a customer a power rating, claiming she tested it or had it tested at that output, then oikos should recive that power rating exactly minus a 5mW meter difference, and if rayfoss cant back their statments thats their fault, and considering all the broken and underspec lasers showing up around here from rayfoss, I feel its perfectly acceptable to ask them for a near spec, fully fuctioning unit.
Companies can go bad quickly and without warning, it happens, and when the signs are present, a smart consumer should be cautious even if that caution isnt always accurate.
very well said kingdave in fact, i would be okay even if it's a +/- 30mW due to temperature, meter etc. but if it's like 50mW difference (we're talking about average) personally, i think it's a little off....

i was ordering the RF532-400mW-FMK(IR filtered) she told me via email that the 400mW laser was available (on the site, there's the RF532-300mW-FMK but not 400mW) i just wanted to make sure she doesn't send me the 300mW for the extra i was paying... the fact that she did not put that 400mw version on the site is what kept me thinking.... i thought for $50 more, $570 (what she wanted for the 400mW) was too good to be true when the 300mW was @ $525.....

i even did some extensive research on why the host looks different and here's the answer i got from JETLASERS (the comany that made the RF532-300mW-FMK that faona is selling:

Quote:
hi Gary i have a question.. is there a fake JETLASER on the market? i saw two versions. one version has the handle bar area round all the way

http://www.freaklasers.com/laser-poi...d-model-11.jpg

the other version has a little flat surface on the handle bar

http://www.rayfoss.com/Uploadfiles/U...9184411975.jpg

are they both legit??

----------- reply -------------

Thanks for your quick response, and I know the fake versions here in Chinese market, while the 2nd one is the duplicate and we cannot say it's all bad, but it uses the domestic LD that costs cheap enough, and through the test we did at the beginning of this year, though the 2nd version leaked a great deal of ir power though they claimed it's ir filtered. And during the power test, except for the underspeced 532nm power, we can see the stability is far from satisfying and the mode hopping(skip) is obvious. You can test both and make comparison if you have the chance.

But you may know, in China, there is no strict copyright stuff, so it's commonplace that people make quick money by copying and duplication, and they're cheap and people like it. Never mind.

Honestly, the model is originated by scitower(scitower.com, a laser manufacture, only second to cni, and more famous than viacho), and you can see the originated model at 陕西同为光电设备有限公司 - 专业品质 卓越服务 . This manufacurer is mainly committed to making labs lasers for China-located universities and military departments, and they also partner with US army. So they don't sell portable lasers much. Meanwhile, while jetlasers(the company i'm working for right now) is made of a dozen of young engineers, so jetlasers first partnered with scitower while the latter agreed to provide the crystal assemblies(the index uses this assembly and pumped via their own 3w LD, plus a additional heat sink, finally achieving the 700mw + stability for around 45 mins.) . Then the jetlasers pumped it with nLight LD here, and achieved a high stability laser power.


Best regards,
Gray
so i thought since it's JETLASER the power output shouldn't be that much off.... that's why i was strict with faona


@Pontiacg5 plus, i heard many ppl's spec sheet from fanona have the EXACT mW (ie: 210mW for a 200mw rated) if the lasers are low quality i assume it may fluctuate and have all kinds of readings for different ppl..

im not trying to put rayfoss down.... but when it comes to choosing sides between a LPF member and rayfoss, of course i would try to protect you..... after all, we're one big family right?



Last edited by oikos; 05-13-2010 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:51 AM #50
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by kingdave2357 View Post
You paid $120 to ship it back for repair??? With that kind of money why not just throw out that rayfoss fail and buy a new CNI pen?



I thought that was a typo in your other thread, but I guess not, why would you pay that much to ship it back, either use a standard service like usps international, or just scrap it and buy a CNI....
BINGO! $570 + $25 shipping + $120 shipping back to rayfoss = $715 (just about what i paid for GB #9 CNI PGL C 532nm 400mW (almost GUARANTEED & possibly 200mW OVERSPEC like RA's) wooohooo can't wait Glenn!
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:48 AM #51
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

i hope ppl learn from their mistakes http://laserpointerforums.com/f41/rayfoss-50744.html <--- clicky
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:14 PM #52
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdave2357 View Post
Little harsh dont ya think? I dont care for noobs either, but there is a difference between the morons here to troll, and the people actually trying to get along with other members, both you and I were 'noobs' here once.

Rayfoss has had some great rep around here, and still does IMO as well, however just because its considered a 'discount' site doesnt mean they can get away with selling underspec products, thats what DX does and look what we all think of DX(>20mW). Its acceptable for a site like rayfoss to have some slight differences in power compared to its rating, but if faona gives a customer a power rating, claiming she tested it or had it tested at that output, then oikos should recive that power rating exactly minus a 5mW meter difference, and if rayfoss cant back their statments thats their fault, and considering all the broken and underspec lasers showing up around here from rayfoss, I feel its perfectly acceptable to ask them for a near spec, fully fuctioning unit.
Companies can go bad quickly and without warning, it happens, and when the signs are present, a smart consumer should be cautious even if that caution isnt always accurate.
very well said kingdave in fact, i would be okay even if it's a +/- 30mW due to temperature, meter etc. but if it's like 50mW difference (we're talking about average) personally, i think it's a little off....

i was ordering the RF532-400mW-FMK(IR filtered) she told me via email that the 400mW laser was available (on the site, there's the RF532-300mW-FMK but not 400mW) i just wanted to make sure she doesn't send me the 300mW for the extra i was paying... the fact that she did not put that 400mw version on the site is what kept me thinking.... i thought for $50 more, $570 (what she wanted for the 400mW) was too good to be true when the 300mW was @ $525.....

i even did some extensive research on why the host looks different and here's the answer i got from JETLASERS (the comany that made the RF532-300mW-FMK that faona is selling:

Quote:
hi Gary i have a question.. is there a fake JETLASER on the market? i saw two versions. one version has the handle bar area round all the way

http://www.freaklasers.com/laser-poi...d-model-11.jpg

the other version has a little flat surface on the handle bar

http://www.rayfoss.com/Uploadfiles/U...9184411975.jpg

are they both legit??

----------- reply -------------

Thanks for your quick response, and I know the fake versions here in Chinese market, while the 2nd one is the duplicate and we cannot say it's all bad, but it uses the domestic LD that costs cheap enough, and through the test we did at the beginning of this year, though the 2nd version leaked a great deal of ir power though they claimed it's ir filtered. And during the power test, except for the underspeced 532nm power, we can see the stability is far from satisfying and the mode hopping(skip) is obvious. You can test both and make comparison if you have the chance.

But you may know, in China, there is no strict copyright stuff, so it's commonplace that people make quick money by copying and duplication, and they're cheap and people like it. Never mind.

Honestly, the model is originated by scitower(scitower.com, a laser manufacture, only second to cni, and more famous than viacho), and you can see the originated model at 陕西同为光电设备有限公司 - 专业品质 卓越服务 . This manufacurer is mainly committed to making labs lasers for China-located universities and military departments, and they also partner with US army. So they don't sell portable lasers much. Meanwhile, while jetlasers(the company i'm working for right now) is made of a dozen of young engineers, so jetlasers first partnered with scitower while the latter agreed to provide the crystal assemblies(the index uses this assembly and pumped via their own 3w LD, plus a additional heat sink, finally achieving the 700mw + stability for around 45 mins.) . Then the jetlasers pumped it with nLight LD here, and achieved a high stability laser power.


Best regards,
Gray
so i thought since it's JETLASER the power output shouldn't be that much off.... that's why i was strict with faona


@Pontiacg5 plus, i heard many ppl's spec sheet from fanona have the EXACT mW (ie: 210mW for a 200mw rated) if the lasers are low quality i assume it may fluctuate and have all kinds of readings for different ppl..

im not trying to put rayfoss down.... but when it comes to choosing sides between a LPF member and rayfoss, of course i would try to protect you..... after all, we're one big family right?

i just checked my last email to faona, look i wasn't even being harsh! "do you guarantee output ~400mW? we have been reviewing and talking how reliable your lasers are at laserpointerforums.com but what happens if my LPM test it being underspeced upon arrival of my laser?" tsk tsk perhaps she got intimidated by ppl who actually have a LPM?
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:08 AM #53
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by oikos View Post
i just checked my last email to faona, look i wasn't even being harsh! "do you guarantee output ~400mW? we have been reviewing and talking how reliable your lasers are at laserpointerforums.com but what happens if my LPM test it being underspeced upon arrival of my laser?" tsk tsk perhaps she got intimidated by ppl who actually have a LPM?
Good work, man. You rly did some research. Thanks.
I don't think she got intimidated by the people who have a LPM, but I believe the fact is that first, they never test the laser before shipping any laser out, coz they know their lasers are not ir filtered, or they're not pro enough to test the laser in the right way, or they don't even have a LPM, as a seller. But it's not their faults. I guess their suppliers just convinced them the lasers they resell are good enough. They found no need to elaborate on the specs like ir filtered or not, underspeced or not, big or small divergence, coz they know the resellers are ignorant of those tech specs and don't have facilities to test, either.

Secondly, ironically, they also have a strong sense of "output power", coz they know the distributors' pricing they receive from the supplier is distinctly divided by the output power. Since they would rather make quick money rather than thinking too much about the specs, they would prefer to sell a 50mw as 75mw. Not ir filter, either.

This is not to say that all of them are not speced. I just hope the laser seller could cherish their name a little more. Simply making quick money is silly. Even if most buyers consider burning as the foremost thing, they need know what they're selling is not mere toys and since they dare to charge people a lot of $$$, they need care more about the quality and reliability.

I also hope more and more ppl in LPF could wait a while(a few days, or one/two months) reviewing these lasers they receive. Do a little more work on testing each. If cheap things can make you forget anything but the price, you can add too much stuff into stuff from China.

The Gary(who is he) is right about the Scitower, which used to supply skylasers with lasers. That's why people recommended skylasers as a good selling team. But now Scitower doesnot provide lasers to skylasers any more. So skylasers is seeking the new supplier. I hope people can research some on the difference between the so-called updated portable laser model Displaying right now at skylasers(i mean not the old model they resell Scitower, but the model currently on sale) and the identical model sold at rayfoss(http://rayfoss.com/productn.asp?ArticleID=59). The look and specs are the same. Don't know if they're from the same laser 'maker'. Maybe someday I could get both lasers and test them both.

Scitower is a superb laser manufacturer but i didnot find its English website.
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:19 AM #54
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by moneyLeu View Post
Good work, man. You rly did some research. Thanks.
I don't think she got intimidated by the people who have a LPM, but I believe the fact is that first, they never test the laser before shipping any laser out, coz they know their lasers are not ir filtered, or they're not pro enough to test the laser in the right way, or they don't even have a LPM, as a seller. But it's not their faults. I guess their suppliers just convinced them the lasers they resell are good enough.
That can never be an excuse. They sell to the customers, so they must vouch for the product meeting advertised specifications. If their suppliers screw up, its never the customers problem.

The equipment to verify output power isnt expensive either, might cost $300 for a basic lpm and some IR filters, not a big investment for a serious reseller.

But testing lasers costs time, perhaps just 5 minutes each, which for some resellers is apparently too much effort
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:33 AM #55
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by Benm View Post
That can never be an excuse. They sell to the customers, so they must vouch for the product meeting advertised specifications. If their suppliers screw up, its never the customers problem.

The equipment to verify output power isnt expensive either, might cost $300 for a basic lpm and some IR filters, not a big investment for a serious reseller.

But testing lasers costs time, perhaps just 5 minutes each, which for some resellers is apparently too much effort
I agree with you, Benm.
An ordinary LPM doesnot cost much and availabe everywhere.
Testing lasers are easily enough, esp. on the power and its stability. Yes, 5 mins is enough.

The point is that What IF they would NOT like to Test to 'reveal' the insufficiency.
Everything will be better if they have a better consicience.
The laser workshops are everywhere, two or three people could make a 'engineering' team. Finding a good machinists to duplicate cni or scitower models. No clean room, no basic facilities, just align crystals with Lds. Get cheap epoxy at cheapest price. Pump source is crappy enough, how could we expect good pumping results. But the point is that these suppliers SELL! Money talks!
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Old 05-15-2010, 01:56 AM #56
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by Benm View Post
That can never be an excuse. They sell to the customers, so they must vouch for the product meeting advertised specifications. If their suppliers screw up, its never the customers problem.

The equipment to verify output power isnt expensive either, might cost $300 for a basic lpm and some IR filters, not a big investment for a serious reseller.

But testing lasers costs time, perhaps just 5 minutes each, which for some resellers is apparently too much effort
yep! ironically they have enough time to tell everybody their tested output is 210mw on their so called "TMP-1" meter! maybe we should counter-offer and sell her a laserbee lol

Quote:
The Gary(who is he) is right about the Scitower
moneyLeu, Gary works at JETLASERS... according to him, they supply freaklasers so at least we know that freaklasers is legit... idk about SKY or rayfoss thou
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Old 05-15-2010, 05:52 PM #57
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by moneyLeu View Post
The point is that What IF they would NOT like to Test to 'reveal' the insufficiency.
We all understand about DX, FP, and other China-laser resellers not testing lasers, but Faona with Rayfoss has assured several people here on LPF that she QC's (with LPM) each laser as it goes out for shipping.
-Do you have any personal experience with them at all?
Why the hostility?
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:32 PM #58
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

well.... Ash sorry that we are being skeptical.... i am sure you have had many good experiences with rayfoss... but recently, there has been signs of quality reduction on their lasers..... we can prove that by many ppl here who also purchased from her. faona can assure the outpul all she want! but that still doesn't explain all the identical 210mw ratings...... may i ask that if you have a LPM? cuz i dont see it in your sig. cheers
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:59 AM #59
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

Just because a company was great yesterday, doesnt mean they will be today or tomorrow, this kind of stuff can and does change over night, past experiences may have been great, but they are not now. If rayfoss can clean it up and fix their QC then we will see, but untill then, IMO its 'X' list for rayfoss....
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:21 AM #60
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by kingdave2357 View Post
Just because a company was great yesterday, doesnt mean they will be today or tomorrow, this kind of stuff can and does change over night, past experiences may have been great, but they are not now. If rayfoss can clean it up and fix their QC then we will see, but untill then, IMO its 'X' list for rayfoss....
why does it say "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kingdave2357 again." when i try to rep you
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:28 AM #61
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

Lol, Thanks

It is because you just repped me not too long ago, the system prevents people from repping the same person over and over, im not sure how long you have to wait, or how many reps you must 'spread around' before you can do it again, but I have gotten reps from the same member twice in two or three days before so it must be how often you rep others....

EDIT: It just let me +rep you again, I must be spreading more love around than I had thought
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130mW 3.8mm diode pointer from moh-peak 140mW
635nm AtlasNova 5mW outputting 2mW
8X BH08LS20 diode in MX host 420mW with DFW lens thanks FPyro!!
SF-AW210 in jayrob pocket mini, flex drive 177mA~230mW with G1 glass
5mW ebaser with star cap puttin out 34mW
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:44 PM #62
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

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Originally Posted by oikos View Post
well.... Ash sorry that we are being skeptical.... i am sure you have had many good experiences with rayfoss... but recently, there has been signs of quality reduction on their lasers..... we can prove that by many ppl here who also purchased from her. faona can assure the outpul all she want! but that still doesn't explain all the identical 210mw ratings...... may i ask that if you have a LPM? cuz i dont see it in your sig. cheers
Oh, no worries. I don't doubt that when a company sells 10x more inventory, they may have a greater percentage that "slip past" QC, or somehow get damaged during shipping. I just feel that we shouldn't judge them on a few (very few) bad apples (or experiences).
Oh, and nope I didn't have an LPM at the time. I used daguin's.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:02 PM #63
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

just imagine how many ppl brought from rayfoss that is actually not on LPF.... i am sure those ppl lack knowledge of lasers and have no idea of what they're getting or have no where to express their frustration if there happens to be a problem & when faona refuse to answer their emails..... she's in China! what can ppl do? i suppose even TJ will have trouble hunting her down!

daguin's LPM wow at least you know you're not getting RAYFOWNED!
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Old 05-16-2010, 10:25 PM #64
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Default Re: The New Rayfoss 350mw Laser Pointer(RF532-350mW-FGB )

It used to be N3ROWN3D, 5 brownie points to the first one who knows what that means :P
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