Starting UV and IR Photography; Equipment Search and More!

[Sigurthr]

Hey everyone, thanks for looking.

So, my tax return is coming in and I have about $350 to spend on my first non-cellphone camera since the film camera days. I'm a bit lost in the endless sea of cameras available and am looking for something specific; I want to be able to buy and attach add on spectral filters and transmissive lenses eventually when I can afford it without having to send the camera out to have the on-chip uv/ir filter removed. I.e. I need a uv-capable camera.

In my meager research on the subject I have found two candidates; Nikon D40 and D70. However, they seem to run about $200+ used at best (rarely see lens, battery, and charger with it for less than $300) and I don't actually need a DSLR. Also I know nothing about the various mounts and adapters required to attach the 52mm spectral filters available or an appropriate uv-capable lens.

So, anyone know of alternatives? Hopefully just a point/shoot with uv capable sensor and the ability to add lenses and filters? I'm not against using a DSLR, I just don't know how to yet, or know what to get accessory wise.

TLDR;
Camera requirements;
1) uv capable sensor without spending $600 to get the filter removed.
2) can attach external lens and filters.
3) $350 or less, used is fine.
4) >3 megapixel resolution

Don't include the cost of the external lens, adapters, or filters in the camera cost, but the camera has to be capable of normal photos without the uv specific hardware (just like the d40 and d70 are).

Thanks a ton for your time!

 

[Trevor]

Re: Attn: photography buffs; Help requested!

You'll need to modify the sensor to get a modern digital camera to effectively shoot scenes in UV, sadly.

...there may be a few DSLR's that can do it vaguely well, but the reason those work is that you can mount a lens that passes UV. P&S lenses are specifically designed to eliminate UV, as are the sensor cover glasses.

It's likely going to cost a lot more than your budget to do what you want.

Trevor

 

[Sigurthr]

Re: Attn: photography buffs; Help requested!

Well, here's what I've found so far:

Old Cameras;
- Numerous reports that the Nikon D40 and D70 don't require any modifications (removal of "hot mirror" internal uv/ir block filter) allowing for multispectral photography with just an external pass filter and suitable lens for the spectrum of choice.
- cameras seem to run between $100 (D70) and $350 (D40) used, for a kit containng camera + battery + charger + standard (non uv-transmissive) lens.
- UV transmissive lenses run about $100 (Nikon EL-Nikkor 80 mm F/5.6 N Lens is reported to be ideal, but requires special assortment of adapters to achieve infinity focus)
- This has the potential to be what I need, assuming I could get a good deal on the three required parts (camera + standard lens, UV lens, UV-pass filter) and figure out what all adapters are needed. The main benefit is that there being no modifications done allows me to use the camera for normal shots without any hindrance.

New Cameras;
- Several eBay and hobbyist forum sellers are making small businesses out of sending used modern camera back to the manufacturer for refurbishment and requesting the hot mirror or internal filter be removed, effectively converting the camera to "full spectrum", and reselling the modified cameras. Prices are attractive, to say the least.
- The main caveat I can see on the cheaper ones ($300 or less) is that there's no mention of the integral lens being changed out or touted as UV transmissive. Likewise, those low end cameras don't have manual focus.
Example: Full Spectrum Nikon L620 $190

- I seem to have missed the boat on most of the $300-350 units, as there's only one currently up for sale anywhere I can find:
Example: Full Spectrum Olympus E-PM1 $330
- It has solid reviews (in unmodified state).
- It has manual focus.
- It has a removable external lens, so if adapters are available, a UV transmissive lens could be found and added if the included one is not suitable.
- Comes with 37mm filter receptacle installed.

Assuming the included lens is any good for UV, I'd just need to buy:
-37mm to 52mm Step Up Ring
-UV + IR Pass, Vis Stop Filter
-UV Pass - IR Stop Filter I could use this filter to achieve normal shots as well, as it effectively replaces the removed internal hot mirror.

If the lens is no good for UV then I'd have to track down a different lens + adapters in addition to the above. I plan on writing to the seller and asking about the included lens's UV transmittance.

So this last camera is what I'm leaning towards. Chances are it won't still be available once my refund comes in, though I will be on the look out for something similar. My gut says the D40 is a better deal, since it is a solid DSLR and works out of the box for standard visible photography, where as the modified modern cameras will almost certainly require at least the IR Stop filter to be functional normally, but my lack of knowledge about matching a camera body to a lens to adapters to filters makes me VERY uneasy at the prospect of getting even a good deal on a D40.

 

[weirdmeister]

Re: Attn: photography buffs; Help requested!

i heard the sony cybershot f828 or f717 are easy to mod the filters inside

even with a magnet only:

https://vimeo.com/107865947

 

[Sigurthr]

Re: Attn: photography buffs; Help requested!

Very interesting with those sony cameras! I believe they retain their UV block even in night shot mode though, either from the protective window below the ICF/Hot-Mirror or the lens coatings.

I contacted the guy selling those modified cameras and explained to him what I needed and he cut me an awesome deal I couldn't pass up:

A NEW (not used) Olympus E-PM1, modified to remove the hot-mirror (uvir cut), original/new battery, charger, stock lens, plus an assortment of filters: 600nm longpass, 680nm longpass, Hoya U360 (UV/IR pass), external IR cut / UV pass, all adapter rings needed, and all filters mounted into filter frames for $350 total. Those Hoya U360 filters are worth $200 direct from supplier, or $100 on eBay from people who buy the sheets in bulk and cut them.

The stock lens is actually one of the best performers for IR since it has some of the lowest internal reflections or focus shifts. So, I'll be all set for any manner of IR photography I want to do, and I *should* be able to do UV shots as well without too much trouble. At the very worst I just have to save up for a UV capable lens, which is what I would have had to do anyway no matter what camera I chose. I wasn't initially interested in doing IR photography, because it is usually actually just NIR; 700-900nm, but this seller has one of these camera himself and uses it with a 900nm longpass and does 900-1250nm IR photography, which is pretty cool. So, I look forward to grabbing one of those filters and giving it a go myself.

 

[Teej]

Some cameras will record UV images for example.

I found this accidentally when doing some forensic investigations, and noticed some could use UV alone as a light source...and others were UV Blind, etc.

If looking at cameras, bring a UV light, and, point the camera at things with the UV light as the illumination.

 

[Sigurthr]

An important thing to note is that various CCD and CMOS sensors simply are blind to certain wavelengths, when talking about UV and higher end IR, as well as the RGB per-pixel filters installed on the sensor chip may filter out UV. So, part of picking a camera is picking a sensor with enough overlap for transmittance of the wavelengths of interest. Of course, the Internal Cut Filter (ICF) "hot mirror" is also a huge and obvious consideration, which is what makes those old Nikons so attractive; their ICF passes a huge amount of UV, and mediocre IR, but the sensor is so sensitive to IR that it still works.

As with all digital photography you have to balance ISO, Aperture Size, Exposure Time/ Shutter Speed, and the resultant noise against how much/many losses you are permitting in your optical path. With film cameras it wasn't so bad, just use a huge exposure time and an aperture for the depth of field you want, eventually enough photons will make it through and bob's yer uncle. With the noise of electronics, it becomes an uphill battle.

I think I've found a good set up, at least for initial results. Will post more when I get the equipment in the mail and give it a go!

I know we have other photography buffs in house, anyone care to comment or perhaps post your work in non-visible spectrum photography, or perhaps multispectral photography?

 

[rhd]

You can do a makeshift mod yourself. I've done this a couple times. My last one was a Rebel XT that I just swapped out the IR block filter on, and replaced it with a piece of an IR pass 720nm (I think) hoya (I think) filter, that I cut into a rectangle by scoring with a knife.

If you don't mind the DIY approach, you can IR mod a camera for not much more than the cost of a cheap IR pass filter. It helps a lot of you don't care about using the camera for regular color photos any more. I used to just employ a kick down approach. When I'd upgrade my DSLR, I'd take the old one an IR convert it, and then sell my previous IR converted DSLR. I haven't upgraded cameras in a long time though, and I don't shoot much these days.

 

[Sigurthr]

Awesome shot!

Yeah I tried modding my old 0.9MP point and shoot Kodak before deciding to buy a new camera (wanted one simply for the ability to manually focus, but hadn't set my mind to the expenditure yet), but I couldn't get access to the hot mirror without destroying the camera in the process. As the main board was epoxied to the plastic inner frame. I bought it "new" in 2002 or so but I suspect it was a refurb repackaged as new, having looked inside. Camera was horrid, no manual focus and the autofocus required unearthly illuminance levels to operate barely.

After buying the new camera I did a full tear down on the old crap P&S and took the ccd out. Sure enough the hot mirror is epoxied right onto the ccd window. Was doomed from the start.

 

[rhd]

Awesome shot!

Yeah I tried modding my old 0.9MP point and shoot Kodak before deciding to buy a new camera (wanted one simply for the ability to manually focus, but hadn't set my mind to the expenditure yet), but I couldn't get access to the hot mirror without destroying the camera in the process. As the main board was epoxied to the plastic inner frame. I bought it "new" in 2002 or so but I suspect it was a refurb repackaged as new, having looked inside. Camera was horrid, no manual focus and the autofocus required unearthly illuminance levels to operate barely.

After buying the new camera I did a full tear down on the old crap P&S and took the ccd out. Sure enough the hot mirror is epoxied right onto the ccd window. Was doomed from the start.

There are a bunch of DIY tutorials on this page:
LifePixel Digital Camera Infrared IR Conversion Services. DIY IR Tutorials

A lot of those DSLRs are now available used for a price that's well under $300

 

[brucemir]

I recently picked up a Hoya D72 IR filter to use with a recently purchased 808nm 1000mw, but did take one outdoor photo using it. When the warm weather eventually cone to NJ, I look foward to taking many landscape shots in just IR. Years ago in my 35mm days, I used to like to shoot color and B/W Kodak film with the various filters that would interchange colors ,and in B/W getting that ghostly effect.

 

[Sigurthr]

So, got my camera, adapters, filters, and tripod in, and I just got back from an out of state trip, and got some time to do some shooting.

I'm still getting used to things and working out the intricacies of modern photography (like I found out the long exposures, even at lowest iso, result in noisy pictures because of sensor heat), so things are far from perfect. I'm also NOT a photoshop guy, so I can't do any of the fancy channel swapping or other spiffy things in processing. That being said, I have had some decent success, especially with IR. I picked up 720nm, 850nm, and 950nm longpass filters. The 720nm is a bust; tons of blue/green visible transmission. The 850 and 950 work great though! I suspect I'm getting IR leaking into my UV because I'm using a cheap IR/UV Cut Filter with my Hoya-U360, so when I can afford to spend the $100 on a good Schott one, I will.

The next batch of photos will be done with noise reduction (overlay of shutter-closed black images to remove the hot pixels), so bear with the noisy shots, please!

My barn and silo in >950nm

My cat Meleficent in >950nm

My cat in UV + suspected IR leakage

 

[Sigurthr]

Gonna be a lot of bumps since I'm the only one contributing regularly. I don't think anyone will mind though given the infrequency.

So I did a simple test to determine how much, if any, IR was leaking through the U360 + UV/IR Cut Filter stack. Basically I placed a 400nm longpass filter in front the stack and looked for a difference in view. The filter is simple polycarbonate, which has a decently sharp cutoff for <400nm...

courtesy google search:

As I suspected, there is quite a lot of IR getting through. This cheap UV/IR cut filter isn't any good for UV photography, but it seems to work ok for color correction of a full spectrum camera to that of a vis-only camera:

With cheap UV/IR Filter on Left, Full-Spectrum on right.

Note; the colors are actually more true to life in full spectrum, at least to my eyes, except that there is a red tinge on black objects due to IR reflectivity.

Proof of IR leakage; you can see the UV being blocked by the poly filter. At least I know my camera is significantly sensitive to UV!

UV totally blocked. All you see is the IR leakage from a Hoya U360 minus the little bit of IR that this cheap UV/IR cut filter actually does block.

I've pony'd up the cash for a genuine Schott S8612 UV Pass / IR Stop filter, which should arrive in a week or so.

 

[Sigurthr]

Okay!

We had a sunny day which let me adjust the white balance a bit better (it isn't a one time thing, but it was at factory default before) and take a few really nice infrared shots. I'm still working on getting the false color that everyone loves, so settle for B&W for now.
Here are two outdoor shots (taken through window) in >850nm.

Also, my Schott S8612 IRcut UVpass filter came in, and I did a quick shoot in UV. The filter combo works great and my camera is decently sensitive to UV, which is excellent news. Initial tests show outdoors on a partly sunny day I can use ISO200 easily and stick to relatively short exposure times (sub 60sec), and indoors with the paltry UV sources I have I can stick to human-target-tolerable exposure times (5sec or less) by cranking ISO to 6400. It's such a relief to see my research paid off and this camera and equipment will do everything I need of it.

365nm Selfie

365nm Selfie w/ clear polycarbonate safety glasses (400nm longpass)

 

[DashApple]

Very Nice ,

 

[Cyparagon]

Cool - now do one with sunscreen