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FrozenGate by Avery

Space Discussion Thread

Accelerating Universe: Not As Fast?
A UA-led team of astronomers found that the type of supernovae commonly used to measure distances in the universe fall into distinct populations not recognized before. The findings have implications for our understanding of how fast the universe has been expanding since the Big Bang.



A lot of news orgs ran with this one claiming that the universe is not expanding. Actually the conclusion is it simply might not be expanding and accelerating as fast.



There is also Gavin Wince who has the attention and been mentioned by Leonard Susskind and Steven Hawking.

Gavin Wince Youtube vids



He has an interesting take on the "Three Dimensions of Time" and he successfully predicted aspects of the Higgs before CERN had results. Not only that but he predicted the confusion they would have over detecting multiple "signals" and plotted where these signals would land in relation to each other due to multidimensional time.



His work has inspired me to copy NASA and develop my own "Warp Field/Laser Interferometer" and build and develop a Q-Thruster/Em-Drive based particularly on the theory it does/can warp gravity/space time.
 





 
Benm said:
Did you get it to move yet? ;)

The effects of these things are tiny at best, but could still be interesting if they actually exist at some point in time.

They are -really- tiny though, something like emitting light has a resulting force far greater that can be put to actual use right now. If you launched a car into space you could make it go forward by stepping on the brakes - at least as long as the battery and brake lights last ;)
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My goal isn't to even get thrust. (What everyone else seems to be gunning for)

NASA did one test and showed a distortion of the laser of 40x what ambient air (or heat from the test article) could account for.

My goal is to develop a version specifically to warp spacetime as much as possible or otherwise duplicate, enhance and further understand the process by which the device distorts/distorted the laser.



I just found a gem over at the NASA Space Flight Center forum.

The following PDFs have been reviewed and picked over for several years over there and most consider it credible, it has yet to be repeated though attempts have been made to replicate it with lower but measurable thrust.

This guy claims to have gotten a little over 8 grams of thrust with his device.

FYI Ion thrust is about 10 grams + or - and still require propellant.

http://www.emdrive.com/ReviewofDMtechreport.pdf
http://www.emdrive.com/DemonstratorTechnicalReportIssue2.pdf
 
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8 grams would actually be a very good result if it could be reproduced. It's an amount easily measured on a device that weighs several kilograms and nothing so minute the measurement error would throw off all results.

I still have no clue how it could work though. There is the diagram of the tapered waveguide. This seems simple when you look at the wide and narrow ends of the thing, but not if you consider the other 'skewed' sides. An impact on such a skewed side would also have a horizontal component, and all those would add up to exactly zero combined with the vertical sides of the thing.

Then again, if it works in a practical model, it works ;)

With these things it's very important to get all the details right though. One simple thing where most people including scientists get it wrong the the crooke's radiometer - one of those bulbs with usually 4 vanes in it that turn when exposed to light/heat. Many people think that it moves because reflecting a photon impacts more energy onto a vane than absorbing one.

This seems plausbile, untill you build one with a perfect vacuum and it no longer works. Turns out that the mechanism of movement is that the dark side of the vanes heat up and impact energy on the small amount of gas present in an imperfect sample (which all demonstration models are, since a vacuum low enough to 'make it work' was considered 'good enough to demonstrate the effect')
 
Benm said:
8 grams would actually be a very good result if it could be reproduced. It's an amount easily measured on a device that weighs several kilograms and nothing so minute the measurement error would throw off all results.

I still have no clue how it could work though. There is the diagram of the tapered waveguide. This seems simple when you look at the wide and narrow ends of the thing, but not if you consider the other 'skewed' sides. An impact on such a skewed side would also have a horizontal component, and all those would add up to exactly zero combined with the vertical sides of the thing.

Then again, if it works in a practical model, it works ;)

With these things it's very important to get all the details right though. One simple thing where most people including scientists get it wrong the the crooke's radiometer - one of those bulbs with usually 4 vanes in it that turn when exposed to light/heat. Many people think that it moves because reflecting a photon impacts more energy onto a vane than absorbing one.

This seems plausbile, untill you build one with a perfect vacuum and it no longer works. Turns out that the mechanism of movement is that the dark side of the vanes heat up and impact energy on the small amount of gas present in an imperfect sample (which all demonstration models are, since a vacuum low enough to 'make it work' was considered 'good enough to demonstrate the effect')
Click to expand...

The simplest explanation is it is a type of "Radiation Pressure" that is higher on one end of the cavity than the other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure

YALxVBU.jpg

This is a diagram of a proposed "Optical Em_Drive"

Note the lasers are at the same angle as the sides of the frustum. Since the mirrors are not perfectly reflective the light would be at a reduced level when it reaches the opposite side, also at a shallow angle more light should be reflected. This puts the most photon/radiation pressure at the ends of the frustum.

I agree it is only plausbile, to me it is plausbile enough for me to aspire to replicate results.



However my goal isn't to produce thrust, my goal is to confirm that there is an effect measurable by laser interferometer, that would imply the device is effecting the Higgs Field/Spacetime.
 
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H2Oxide said:
I remember seeing this on Reddit a while ago. Any idea if he finished it?
Click to expand...

As I understand it he did finish it but came up against the limits of his testing equipment.

He has since switched to the more accepted magnetron powered version.

The magnetron he is attempting to use is from a microwave oven and suffers from "thermal runaway" and he resorted in his last attempt to using ice gel packs and aluminum foil to try to cool and shield it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/QThruster/comments/55akjf/magnetron_thermal_runaway_and_vortex_shedding/



Once I have my interferometer built I plan to combine both ideas and build a MASER as my EM source for the device.

I think a klystron would be a good candidate as it is small and I can run it from a watt or so to several hundred (probably more than enough to burn out other components in the device).
 
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If you want to create an RF field in the frequency a microwave oven operates you really don't need to use vacuum tubes at all for low powers.

You surely need one to generate the better part of a kilowatt in a $99 kitchen applicance for practical reasons.

If you only needed a couple of watts, or tens of watts, you can do this completely with semiconductors. These devices are widely used in cellphone tower equipment, and probably available from scrapped equipment as well when it is replace with newer 4G stuff and all.

I still see no mechanism how these cavity designs can produce thrust. More importantly, they should produce -more- thrust than just blasting the radiation out of the back to be of any practical use.

You can move a spacecraft forward by strapping a microwave oven with it's door open (and interlock sabotaged) as long as you have the electrical power available to do this. Given comparable efficiency you could also strap a LED (array) of similar power level to it and get equal results.

One problem with all of this is where to get the electrical power from anyway. If you get it from a star you may just as well use sails. If you get it from an RTG you might just as well shield one side a bit less and let the generated radiation push you forward.
 
AaronT said:
I plan to combine both ideas and build a MASER as my EM source for the device.
Click to expand...

Now THAT would be impressive. Exactly what kind of lab do you have access to that has the capabilities to manufacture a MASER?
 
H2Oxide said:
Now THAT would be impressive. Exactly what kind of lab do you have access to that has the capabilities to manufacture a MASER?
Click to expand...

My last few years in the .mil I was certified as an "Electronic Warfare Specialist"

What I learned from that plus the "to me" amazing fact that a lot of mil grade microwave gear is available on places like ebay. Many sellers don't even know what they are selling.

I supposes it wouldn't be a "MASER" by the strictest definition. The "divergence" would be similar to what you see in some of the ultra tight beam LED flashlights.
 
Oh yeah, the equipment ends up everywhere. Downside is that the seller has no idea what it is not how to list it, so you have to be lucky and recognize it from a picture while browsing around a bit.

A bigass couple-of-GHz sat uplink system could easily end up as scap metal: it does contain a significant mass of metal, and has no exterior features that make it look very valuable to the average person (the dish will likely not be on it or anything like that, just a waveguide output coupler).

As for the output angle of a microwave signal: those might be about as good as that of a multimode diode laser when using a dish intended for domestic tv reception. Anyone that ever aligned a meter or so wide dish will know how tricky that is.
 
Benm said:
Oh yeah, the equipment ends up everywhere. Downside is that the seller has no idea what it is not how to list it, so you have to be lucky and recognize it from a picture while browsing around a bit.

A bigass couple-of-GHz sat uplink system could easily end up as scap metal: it does contain a significant mass of metal, and has no exterior features that make it look very valuable to the average person (the dish will likely not be on it or anything like that, just a waveguide output coupler).

As for the output angle of a microwave signal: those might be about as good as that of a multimode diode laser when using a dish intended for domestic tv reception. Anyone that ever aligned a meter or so wide dish will know how tricky that is.
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I have indeed been looking for a microwave sat uplink system/parts.

It was funny when I came to the conclusion that it would be easier to build a "full scale" high power (Hundreds or even thousands of watts) Em_Drive, everything I've seen hasn't been much larger than a coffee can.
 
I guess people like to keep proof of concept things to the small scale if possible.

Apart from cost, a downside from a full size device would be the means to power it. If you are talking about a few kilowatts RF power drive, chances are the average home mains will not provide that. In a proper electrical lab with a good 3 phase supply it should not be a problem though, and at this power level you'll want 3 phase to make things easier on rectification and such.

Downside is that high power RF tubes do not work well on lower power levels. If you manage to secure something like a 50 kW klystron it'll probably take the entire mains power to your house just to power the filament alone ;)
 
Benm said:
I guess people like to keep proof of concept things to the small scale if possible.

Apart from cost, a downside from a full size device would be the means to power it. If you are talking about a few kilowatts RF power drive, chances are the average home mains will not provide that. In a proper electrical lab with a good 3 phase supply it should not be a problem though, and at this power level you'll want 3 phase to make things easier on rectification and such.

Downside is that high power RF tubes do not work well on lower power levels. If you manage to secure something like a 50 kW klystron it'll probably take the entire mains power to your house just to power the filament alone ;)
Click to expand...

I have found a few examples of man and light vehicle portable sat com systems that are more manageable.

The trick is finding ones that are in working order or within my ability to repair.

They are out there and within my hypothetical budget.
 
Please share if you got hold of something like that.

The vehicle based systems surely are interesting as power requirements are reasonably met. I'm not sure about how the whole space drive thing will work out, but getting those systems operational again to some degree is a challenge on its own, and something i'd be willing to help with as far as i'm capable... these microwave devices often are so complex (or elegant) that it's hard to get a good undesrtanding of how they operate even in their intended application.
 
I may have to rethink my initial design and start by replicating the device NASA tested. In effect it should be an order of magnitude less expensive to build than I thought.

LEAKED NASA EAGLEWORKS PAPER CONFIRMS PROMISING EMDRIVE RESULTS

The NASA paper goes into fine detail on the setup of the device itself. (It reminds me much of radio antenna theory from my time in the military)

On another note I can build the self contained, portable (Oscilloscope included) Scanning Fabry-Perot Interferometer I want to use to test for any warping in gravity it produces for about $500 and get the finesse of $5000+ equipment.

The interferometer should be accurate enough to be calibrated on local gravity changes like being on a mountain peak vs in a valley or cave/mine.

For example the difference between the local gravity at my house vs the nearest peak is about 1% according to this site http://www.sensorsone.com/local-gravity-calculator/
 
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