Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry?

[TheGr8Revealing]

Hey guys,

So I've been selling alot of my blu-ray pointer builds on ebay. I know that they have strick rules about selling pointers over 5mW's on there but I have yet to be stopped or have an auction taken down. I have sold many units and I am worried that I am getting too involved and breaking the law by selling my 100mW pointers without the correct FDA key start ups and delays. Or that someone is going to hurt themselves and end up trying to sue me. You think I should be concerned? It could just be me worrying too much.

-Paul

 

[Razako]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

Hey guys,

So I've been selling alot of my blu-ray pointer builds on ebay. I know that they have strick rules about selling pointers over 5mW's on there but I have yet to be stopped or have an auction taken down. I have sold many units and I am worried that I am getting too involved and breaking the law by selling my 100mW pointers without the correct FDA key start ups and delays. Or that someone is going to hurt themselves and end up trying to sue me. You think I should be concerned? It could just be me worrying too much.

-Paul

You're probably just worrying too much. If it truly worries you then simply don't sell them on ebay. Personally I think the FDA has bigger fish to fry and that they won't come after you unless you really start asking for it.

 

[thesk8nmidget]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

yes you should be concerned. if something happens like say this little kid that bought your laser shines it at a plane or blinds someone at school etc, authority will ask where he bought the laser and you may get a visit from someone you dont want to be visiting you.


you have been warned.

 

[Razako]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

Couldn't you put in a disclaimer like optotronics and nova do? Basically it states that you as the seller take no responsibility for the misuse of the laser and that the buyer must be 18+

The problem is that you're selling illegal lasers in the first place so that still might not work if anything did happen. One thing that you can try is asking the buyer why he wants a laser. If you get a stupid answer like "I want to burn people" then you can refuse to sell the laser to them.

 

[daguin]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

Couldn't you put in a disclaimer like optotronics and nova do?  Basically it states that you as the seller take no responsibility for the misuse of the laser and that the buyer must be 18+

The problem is that you're selling illegal lasers in the first place so that still might not work if anything did happen.  One thing that you can try is asking the buyer why he wants a laser.  If you get a stupid answer like "I want to burn people" then you can refuse to sell the laser to them.

If/when you get to court, these "disclaimers" are tossed out first thing.  There is a concept in law called "informed consent."  All the plaintiff has to do is state that you didn't actually insure that he "understood" the dangers.  If you cannot prove that he read and understood the dangers (clicking on a button is NOT enough in court), he did not give "informed consent."   Without informed consent, the disclaimer is moot.  Plus you have the separate issue that a "minor" is legally incapable of even giving "informed consent."  In the eyes of the law (unless the court determines otherwise), a minor is legally an "infant."

Peace,
dave

 

[TheGr8Revealing]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

Yeah, that is a really good idea. I am going to put an 18+ advisory on it, plus contact each buyer to varify who they are and what they will be doing with it. For the most part it has been academics and physics or engineering professors purchasing from me.

thanks guys.

 

[heruursciences]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

NEVER sell pointers on EBAY unless less than 5mW.

Make sure that the buyer has to do something to them to make them operational such as soldering or minor circuit assembly. Do not answer questions about batteries used, burning capability, or power lever to low or zero feedback bidders.

 

[Ace82]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

If/when you get to court, these "disclaimers" are tossed out first thing.  There is a concept in law called "informed consent."  All the plaintiff has to do is state that you didn't actually insure that he "understood" the dangers.  If you cannot prove that he read and understood the dangers (clicking on a button is NOT enough in court), he did not give "informed consent."   Without informed consent, the disclaimer is moot.  Plus you have the separate issue that a "minor" is legally incapable of even giving "informed consent."  In the eyes of the law (unless the court determines otherwise), a minor is legally an "infant."

Peace,
dave

I 2nd the motion.  

Yeah, that is a really good idea. I am going to put an 18+ advisory on it, plus contact each buyer to varify who they are and what they will be doing with it. For the most part it has been academics and physics or engineering professors purchasing from me.

thanks guys.

Read Dave's post again.

If/when you get to court, these "disclaimers" are tossed out first thing.  There is a concept in law called "informed consent."  All the plaintiff has to do is state that you didn't actually insure that he "understood" the dangers.  If you cannot prove that he read and understood the dangers (clicking on a button is NOT enough in court), he did not give "informed consent."   Without informed consent, the disclaimer is moot.  Plus you have the separate issue that a "minor" is legally incapable of even giving "informed consent."  In the eyes of the law (unless the court determines otherwise), a minor is legally an "infant."

Peace,
dave

I 3rd the motion.  

It's good to know the risks, but the choice, is yours.  Will it happen?  Who really knows?  I have no idea.  And what fish do the FDA have to fry anyway?  Who knows.  Maybe you can do some research about what takes place on ebay.


I have a question though.  :-?

Couldn't ebay be potentially responsible for hosting these sells?  I mean, sure you have to "informed consent" as a seller on ebay that IS just a click of the mouse?  

 

[JLSE]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

I think ebay is partially responsible, that is why they end any listings of 5mW when they find them. But nothing stops them from coming after you if they're pockets get hit first.

If you sell 50 of these and only one person sues them, they have all your records of the sales and disregard for their policy to bring to court in their favor.

If it ever came to a team of lawyers from ebay vs me, I think id be worried.. :-/
Especially if you live in their turf (USA)

 

[FrothyChimp]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, if your transaction is illegal then any and all conditions, disclaimers or legal statements designed to mitigate the original illegal act is void. If you are culpable in the act you are culpable for all results of that act. There is no way around it.

It's not the fault of eBay by not catching every sale. Anyone selling an illegal pointer has violated the terms of use. I wish people would quit trying to pass their responsibility onto others. If you do it you are a criminal. You have violated Title 21 of the United States Code. You can justify it to yourself all you want but in the application of the law your justifications to willfully violate the law will be used to prove your guilt.

Play your mind games but you will become that fish the FDA fries when you injure someone. No they did not injure themselves, you injured them by providing your victim an illegal device. That is how the court will look at it.

You can play your games and hope for the best but rest assured when you hit the radar of the FDA you will pay. That is how they do it in the real world.

 

[L@z3r]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

First of all, I thought you had to be 18 to have to make a ebay account ?
So would the Minor not get in trouble for Forging his/her age ?

 

[Ace82]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

Frothy the Realist.
K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. There's no justifying what spawns from a bad seed.

In conclusion, it's probably best you quit your ILLEGAL actions on ebay.



Whats up with the TV show Frothy?

 

[FrothyChimp]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

The TV show is still hovering on-hold. I bet the economy is killing it right now.

 

[lasersbee]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

First of all, I thought you had to be 18 to have to make a ebay account ?
So would the Minor not get in trouble for Forging his/her age ?

That never stopped you..... : : :

 

[lasersbee]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

NEVER  sell pointers on EBAY unless less than 5mW.

Make sure that the buyer has to do something to them to make them operational such as soldering or minor circuit assembly. Do not answer questions about batteries used, burning capability, or power lever to low or zero feedback bidders.

For selling High Powered Fully functioning Lasers on ebay I agree with Frosty... no matter what
you say in court... you will be responsible of any harm... because you knew you were selling
an illegal functioning Laser...

Frothy... I'd like to know your thoughts on what "heruursciences" posted....

Jerry

 

[FrothyChimp]

Re: Lots of ebay sales of lasers... should I worry

When a purchaser has to provide assembly the unit becomes a kit. It then becomes an issue of legal precedence as to whether substantial knowledge was required to complete the kit or whether the kit was created to bypass a law by requiring assembly requiring no substantial knowledge. Providing the components to build a laser but requiring the user to assemble all the components is very different than soldering one wire. Could still be playing with fire.

Do you ever wonder why you find laser systems on eBay in parts with power cords and control cables cut? Most of those lasers were medical use lasers and cannot be sold per FDA to unlicensed individuals. By cutting required cabling and separating components in individual sales the equipment is effectively de-medicalized and requires substantial knowledge to make work. It's the same idea: substantial knowledge.