No I didnt make the thread...I only posted TLs VAUGE statement in it (well a link to it there) and asking, well is anyone surprised, after the revelation the the 'crossfire' they sell was found out to be a clone... and Only asking... 'well ... could you at WL&TL be less vauge..', to which I was banned after over a year or more of being a forum member there..without so much as a warning
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FrozenGate by Avery
i find this... odd about Techlasers:
- Thread starter marianne
- Start date
I guess we have to give wl Kudos 
for at least not wanting to lie... they just seem to take the old addage to heart :
of :
"Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies." LMAO ;D how ..errr ommitingly sad, that that be one of the only Kudos one might be truthfully able to offer wl
for at least not wanting to lie... they just seem to take the old addage to heart :of :
"Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies." LMAO ;D how ..errr ommitingly sad, that that be one of the only Kudos one might be truthfully able to offer wl
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BooBoo said:
Sorry, I think i've overlooked something here. Where/how was this established as fact?
by other wl forum members who'd bought tested and posted on LC during the time of that other previously mentioned thread... if I were able to get into LC even to look at the posts, I would post a link.....but alas I am unable to look, even though banned from posting there myself....as if looking to be able to gleen anything of whats being posted there would hurt them.....well perhaps it would... if I could show you that post...to which if I recall correctly even Authuol commented on....with something to the effect
"All RPls of the same body-type and or output, are considered equal ei the same, so even if they are clones, they will work as well as the one originally made by other companies"
Now for him to even think to say something even along those lines, just adds to the 'hinkiness' of it all
and by the way, before I was banned I think that entire thread (about the cloned crossfire) was yanked/erased/deleted...nada'ed
"All RPls of the same body-type and or output, are considered equal ei the same, so even if they are clones, they will work as well as the one originally made by other companies"
Now for him to even think to say something even along those lines, just adds to the 'hinkiness' of it all
and by the way, before I was banned I think that entire thread (about the cloned crossfire) was yanked/erased/deleted...nada'ed
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oh wow i had no idea there's actual proof that Techlasers sell clones
proof as in way of omission of answering ANY questions to the opposite
& the 'truth/fact of whether thier CrossFire is a clone... lay upon the few who'd claimed to buy and test, and somewhat dismantle the Crossfire bought from TL....which to several agreed, it is not the same diodes that are even used in the(ahem actual) Crossfire....to believe them or not.. is one thing... but that thread remained at least until the time I was banned....with little if any words against that claim by anyone there 'in the know', as well as the rough rememberance of what Athuol stated about it.... now to believe them or not.... the post was not denied, and supposed tests' as such were done and the 'findings' left there... un-chalanged.... until the later thread of "Are TLs Clones" to which it wasnt answered either... but for in the way of banning anyone who asked them to clarify... so yes... in my mind that is answer enough to the debate whether they are fakes or clones....
& the 'truth/fact of whether thier CrossFire is a clone... lay upon the few who'd claimed to buy and test, and somewhat dismantle the Crossfire bought from TL....which to several agreed, it is not the same diodes that are even used in the(ahem actual) Crossfire....to believe them or not.. is one thing... but that thread remained at least until the time I was banned....with little if any words against that claim by anyone there 'in the know', as well as the rough rememberance of what Athuol stated about it.... now to believe them or not.... the post was not denied, and supposed tests' as such were done and the 'findings' left there... un-chalanged.... until the later thread of "Are TLs Clones" to which it wasnt answered either... but for in the way of banning anyone who asked them to clarify... so yes... in my mind that is answer enough to the debate whether they are fakes or clones....
well it does seem telling that they are now no longer claiming on the website that it's an RPL/Hercules/whatever... by the way BooBoo, go to google, click "language tools", pick "translate page from japasese to english" and enter LC's address to "translate", and it will let you read stuff there.
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I'm sorry, but I see no real reason to believe that the crossfire lasers are clones. Plenty of resoning against it though. I'll admit the WL and Techlasers are fishy, a bit stupid, quite dishonest, etc. but I don't understand all this fuss about clones.
!??! What companies don't claim superiority over others!? Seriously, guys stop acting like sheeple and following what everyone else is doing and think for yourselves. Views here are so incredibly biased against WL that even if they do free giveaways, you just say "up yours." I'm really getting tired of this.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them. As pseudo said, I don't see any reason to suspect that they are. I just think the arguments about why they are evil are horrible. To gain a true perspective, you must look at it without preference towards either side. If you have never seen anthing like the advertising above, you have been living under a rock. While it may be expected that companies conduct business with respect towards others in order to stimulate the market, that ideal is just not feasible in real life. Like communism, it looks great on paper, but once it is applied in real life things just fall apart.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them. As pseudo said, I don't see any reason to suspect that they are. I just think the arguments about why they are evil are horrible. To gain a true perspective, you must look at it without preference towards either side. If you have never seen anthing like the advertising above, you have been living under a rock. While it may be expected that companies conduct business with respect towards others in order to stimulate the market, that ideal is just not feasible in real life. Like communism, it looks great on paper, but once it is applied in real life things just fall apart.
Milos
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BooBoo said:proof as in way of omission of answering ANY questions to the opposite
& the 'truth/fact of whether thier CrossFire is a clone... lay upon the few who'd claimed to buy and test, and somewhat dismantle the Crossfire bought from TL....which to several agreed, it is not the same diodes that are even used in the(ahem actual) Crossfire....to believe them or not.. is one thing... but that thread remained at least until the time I was banned....with little if any words against that claim by anyone there 'in the know', as well as the rough rememberance of what Athuol stated about it.... now to believe them or not.... the post was not denied, and supposed tests' as such were done and the 'findings' left there... un-chalanged.... until the later thread of "Are TLs Clones" to which it wasnt answered either... but for in the way of banning anyone who asked them to clarify... so yes... in my mind that is answer enough to the debate whether they are fakes or clones....
I don't know about people who got the "clones" and took them them apart to compare guts. Who are these rich dedicated laser fans and why don't they come here and share their experience with us after their thread was deleted on LC ? I don't believe in it. Sorry
As for Athoul's comment, thats not any proof that TL units are clones. Have you considered the most probable case that Athoul actually doesn't know for sure who manufactured those lasers.
I personally think TL units don't need to be clones. Its probably much easier to just find way and get real ones. .... :
: .... ..... .noooo don't shot meee.. , wait... :-[ Of course I have no facts to support this "wild" theory. But maybe not so wild
Times are changing as laser hobby has grown so much. Markets are opening, sales are growing - didn't you notice. Even pseudo can get pen sized CNIs and even big RPLs now days. Why would he be the only exception to sell RPL besides Optotronics.
Its just business guys, and money will talk.
P.S.
Just gut feeling.
I must say i find this thread going a bit over the top. I have yet to hear a bad revieuw about tech-lasers and the prices are kick-ass. Even if they were clones, if they do the job well and cheaper u don't hear me complaining.
Don't get me wrong i am not trying to make publicity for tech-lasers here. But i just think some off u guys are getting a bit carried away on this topic. The company is fairly new so i say give them a bit off time before crashing down on them, as i see it now there isn't any proof yet that they are scammers.
If u really want to comment on those lasers i suggest u buy one first and test it extensively. Mind u that i say buy one, cause imo lasers they send out to be revieuwed are hand picked very good preforming units. They have a 7 day return policy so if the laser is under spec just send it back. Iff they don't wanna take it back or make an unusual fuss about it we know there is something fishy going on.
Anyhow my point off this post is that there simply isn't enough proof yet to crack down on them, have an open mind people it's not cause they are afilliated with wicked lasers that they are automatically a scam.
Just my 2 cents.
Don't get me wrong i am not trying to make publicity for tech-lasers here. But i just think some off u guys are getting a bit carried away on this topic. The company is fairly new so i say give them a bit off time before crashing down on them, as i see it now there isn't any proof yet that they are scammers.
If u really want to comment on those lasers i suggest u buy one first and test it extensively. Mind u that i say buy one, cause imo lasers they send out to be revieuwed are hand picked very good preforming units. They have a 7 day return policy so if the laser is under spec just send it back. Iff they don't wanna take it back or make an unusual fuss about it we know there is something fishy going on.
Anyhow my point off this post is that there simply isn't enough proof yet to crack down on them, have an open mind people it's not cause they are afilliated with wicked lasers that they are automatically a scam.
Just my 2 cents.
1st off wl/steve made the statement long ago, that any business between them and CNI were totally severed, that CNI refused to do business with them any more after they switched from CNIs to thie 'own' models.
2nd off those that reported taking the 'Cross-Fire' apart to 'find' that it had (supposedly) in 'fact', had different (sized?) diodes then the Cross-Fires they had purchased in the past ... could have very well been mistaken, misleading, or a lie unto itself...
Hence is the,
3rd, where I asked them to clarify..(after only being able to find, in way of the truth of those whom Own those businesses, statements that were Designed to be Very Vague).. whether or not they were in fact clones/resonable-facimilies, or the actual thing... to which I was answered by no answer other than being banned...as seemingly was Marriane for the same inquerry
*as for those that made claims of buying and disecting these lasers, I cannot back them up, as I am unable to browse the forum there to gleen any further insight of the whos and ifs....although thier statements were posted there.. if they are still there I havent a clue.... and thank you marrianne, I did not know you could do that...but as my comp was made in the 70s...ok 80s its a dying beast that has refused downloads and downright frozen trying to translate pages from eng->chin
That being said:
It has been answered in way of those actions on thier part, and in Not wishing to address such ..easier to get rid of anyone asking questions you do not wish to answer, rather than answer them...
& appologies if you dont wish to read/hear/see this, its a stick in my craw(is that how the expression goes ?) that they should have had the audacity to do such after me buying close to $2,000 worth of lasers and laser products from them.... because of simply asking them to clear up the questions those threads raised, along with all the Vague statements... with no answers or warnings of context of my posts.....but to be banned
&if that is not the case, I do not see why they could not have answered such...other than the slimmest of chances that no mods on lc nor anyone at wl has a grasp of the english language...which I do not think is the case
2nd off those that reported taking the 'Cross-Fire' apart to 'find' that it had (supposedly) in 'fact', had different (sized?) diodes then the Cross-Fires they had purchased in the past ... could have very well been mistaken, misleading, or a lie unto itself...
Hence is the,
3rd, where I asked them to clarify..(after only being able to find, in way of the truth of those whom Own those businesses, statements that were Designed to be Very Vague).. whether or not they were in fact clones/resonable-facimilies, or the actual thing... to which I was answered by no answer other than being banned...as seemingly was Marriane for the same inquerry
*as for those that made claims of buying and disecting these lasers, I cannot back them up, as I am unable to browse the forum there to gleen any further insight of the whos and ifs....although thier statements were posted there.. if they are still there I havent a clue.... and thank you marrianne, I did not know you could do that...but as my comp was made in the 70s...ok 80s its a dying beast that has refused downloads and downright frozen trying to translate pages from eng->chin
That being said:
It has been answered in way of those actions on thier part, and in Not wishing to address such ..easier to get rid of anyone asking questions you do not wish to answer, rather than answer them...
& appologies if you dont wish to read/hear/see this, its a stick in my craw(is that how the expression goes ?) that they should have had the audacity to do such after me buying close to $2,000 worth of lasers and laser products from them.... because of simply asking them to clear up the questions those threads raised, along with all the Vague statements... with no answers or warnings of context of my posts.....but to be banned
&if that is not the case, I do not see why they could not have answered such...other than the slimmest of chances that no mods on lc nor anyone at wl has a grasp of the english language...which I do not think is the case
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I admit that techlasers/WL have been quite suspicious here and if you wanna take their statements at face value, or the opposite, its possible to draw "fact".
However, I'd like to step back and evaluate the situation logically, and with what we know and have learned about these units and their manufacturers. All in all, I come to the conclusion that there is no good reason to believe the crossfire lasers are clones.
Not saying there aren't clones, just saying that being where we are, occam's razor says they aren't.
That's the only thing I'm taking issue with here - the topic of clones. Don't think for a second that I'm not pissed about how WL and TL has treated you, and the rest of us hobbyists though. That's a battle I don't feel like fighting though.
However, I'd like to step back and evaluate the situation logically, and with what we know and have learned about these units and their manufacturers. All in all, I come to the conclusion that there is no good reason to believe the crossfire lasers are clones.
Not saying there aren't clones, just saying that being where we are, occam's razor says they aren't.
That's the only thing I'm taking issue with here - the topic of clones. Don't think for a second that I'm not pissed about how WL and TL has treated you, and the rest of us hobbyists though. That's a battle I don't feel like fighting though.