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FrozenGate by Avery

Green laser pointer






First off - we cannot read your mail ;)

Secondly, those lasers SUCK ! I tested a supposed 200mw one of those, and it was putting out VERY little power at all. They look nice, but the resale to educated laser folks would be about $20.

I say educated - but what I really mean is those that have experienced lasers for a while, and those with power meters, etc....
 
Here it is ---- what is the value of it here:

Green&Blue Laser Pointer > 350mW Green Laser Pointer



350mW Green Laser Pointer
Model No.: LGE-0015
Product Origin: China
Price Terms: FOB Shenzhen
Payment Terms: T/T in advance
See the most recent posting for this 350mW Green Laser Pointer (Jun 23, 2007)
Detailed Product Description
Battery:1 piece of 18650 with recharge
Technical Parameter:
Fixed focus,green dot facula,continuous output and working time over 8000 hours.
Output wavelength:532nm
Working voltage:DC-4.2V
Trigger voltage:DC-3.6V
Output Power:300mw,350mw
 
SenKat said:
First off - we cannot read your mail  ;)

Secondly, those lasers SUCK !  I tested a supposed 200mw one of those, and it was putting out VERY little power at all.  They look nice, but the resale to educated laser folks would be about $20.

I say educated - but what I really mean is those that have experienced lasers for a while, and those with power meters, etc....
Click to expand...

Hmmm - bad news I guess - they are asking about 600usd for 10 of them
 
LGE-0018

I've actually had a very pleasant conversation over the past week with the folks at LGE, and so far, I'm impressed. I have exchanged emails with their staff, who have been attentive and professional, and they have passed on a number of my questions to their engineers and have come back with answers quickly.  It's interesting dealing directly with China...not at all how it used to be.  So far I give them an A for customer service.  The true test(s) will come when the product arrives, hopefully next week.

They normally sell in lots of 10 or more, but as I may be buying more of these down the road for my team,  I've ordered a sample 350mW (+/- 20mW) 532nm LGE-0018 to evaluate them.  This unit sells for about $600, but as it comes without an IR filter, I've asked them to install one, boosting the price by about $30.  This will result in a pure 532nm unit kicking out approximately 250mW (+/- 20mW) according to their engineers.  They will test it to make sure that the output power is in the correct range, and that there is no IR leakage, before shipping it to me.  

Other Specs:

2 Watt IR diode under the hood
Beam diameter: 1.0-1.2mm
Beam divergence: 1.0-1.2mrad
Dimensions: 40mm x 220mm
Comes with key, safety switch, etc.

I'm pretty stoked.  If this thing works as described (...IF...) it is going to be a lot of laser for the price.  Does anyone own one of these units?  Has anyone done business with them?  I'll post results when I get the unit.
 

Attachments

  • LGE-0018.jpg
    LGE-0018.jpg
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I am a little suspicious.....any IR filter that knocks 100mw off the top is not a very good filter. If you have the means to test this laser thoroughly, then go for it - if not, I am afraid you will not be getting what you expect. Although it LOOKS like an RPL - I highly doubt it has the same quality control as the RPL line from Optotronics...I wish you luck, and I eagerly await the results of your tests !
 
SenKat said:
I am a little suspicious.....any IR filter that knocks 100mw off the top is not a very good filter. If you have the means to test this laser thoroughly, then go for it - if not, I am afraid you will not be getting what you expect. Although it LOOKS like an RPL - I highly doubt it has the same quality control as the RPL line from Optotronics...I wish you luck, and I eagerly await the results of your tests !
Click to expand...

Hi SenKat,
I agree with you about it being suspicious.
Something very interesting, they say that for $30 extra they will add an IR filter??????
Like I had mentioned in another post, Optotronics has an exclusive distribution agreement with the manufacturer that include right of 1st refusal. The only units the manufacturer can sell to 3rd distributors are those which we return to them as not meeting our product specifications.

This place didn't design or manufacture the RPL, so they don't have engineers to test them or make comments about the design.

All RPL lasers are built with IR protection; it sounds like they are taking the lasers we rejected and returned, then pulled the IR filter out to "give them more power" and charge you more "to keep the filter in place" and then the output is dropped by 100mW. I can promise that none of these meet the average output power specs of the RPL-165, or if some do hit 200mW, they have bad divergence or other problems.

So, now instead of a $600 laser, it's $630.
plus you have to add whatever they charge for shipping, then the mentioned payment terms of "T/T in advance" means the buyer must send them an international wire transfer from their checking account (the cost of this is between $35-$50 depending on your bank). So now the cost is up to $665-$680 without shipping added in.
If it gets intercepted by customs, will they ship another free of charge?
How long from the time you send this place your money will you get your laser?
A wire transfer is not like a credit card which can be contested for no deliver, a wire is just like handing someone cash.

Then if you're a hobbyist or someone who knows lasers and gets your laser, it's not going to perform at both the average output level of the RPL-165 and be within spec, I suppose you could return it to China at your cost ($40) and try again to get something close to an RPL-165.

Lastly, this "deathray" poster says they are stoked to get theirs...
I doubt it, this was their 1st post in forum and only joined minutes before the post.
They are probably the 3rd party distributor themselves and they're trying to sell them to someone who doesn't have the means to thoroughly test them.

I would bet, that since LPF logs all IP addresses, they could look up the source country of the "deathray" poster and find that they are posting from China or the far east; this would be an indication of poster fraud or misrepresentation.

Jack
 
Jack,

I'm not a 3rd party distributor.  I do technology-related humanitarian work in Afghanistan.  Rural Afghanistan. I want to have this laser as a security beacon.  Bad things happen over there.  

Check my IP address:  I'm in North Carolina, at the moment, which is my home.  And while I'm over there, I in fact do wish I looked Chinese....or Asian in general....in fact, Central Asian would be just peachy.  I'm as Anglo as they come, and I stand out wherever I go over there.  And in some parts, kidnapping Americans is a national sport.

I am indeed taking my chances with quality and the method of payment.  I'm willing to risk $630.  They claim that they are willing to take a return. I don't see much point in slamming them before anyone has actually performed rigorous tests.  

You may well be right in every single assertion you make.  But then again, you could be dead wrong in every one as well.  I'm going to take an evidence-based approach here, and take my chances. Maybe I'll learn something.  Whatever happens, I'll share it, and everyone should benefit.  Knowledge is power.

Btw I'm a preferred customer at Western Union, so it only cost me $14 to make the transfer.  So my total liability at this point is $644.   I find this an acceptable risk.  Might be junk.  Might be a new player.  Competition is a good thing, right?

Regards,

Robert
 
deathray said:
Jack,

I'm not a 3rd party distributor. I do technology-related humanitarian work in Afghanistan. Rural Afghanistan. I want to have this laser as a security beacon. Bad things happen over there.

Check my IP address: I'm in North Carolina, at the moment, which is my home. And while I'm over there, I in fact do wish I looked Chinese....or Asian in general....in fact, Central Asian would be just peachy. I'm as Anglo as they come, and I stand out wherever I go over there. And in some parts, kidnapping Americans is a national sport.

I am indeed taking my chances with quality and the method of payment. I'm willing to risk $630. They claim that they are willing to take a return. I don't see much point in slamming them before anyone has actually performed rigorous tests.

You may well be right in every single assertion you make. But then again, you could be dead wrong in every one as well. I'm going to take an evidence-based approach here, and take my chances. Maybe I'll learn something. Whatever happens, I'll share it, and everyone should benefit. Knowledge is power.

Btw I'm a preferred customer at Western Union, so it only cost me $14 to make the transfer. So my total liability at this point is $644. I find this an acceptable risk. Might be junk. Might be a new player. Competition is a good thing, right?

Regards,

Robert
Click to expand...

Hi Robert,
I stand corrected about your origin or intentions, I am sorry for assuming this; it's just that this kind of thing (new 3rd party distributors of laser products passing themselves as individuals who have a great deal of some type) has become common place in the laser forums.

Welcome to the forum.
I doubt at all that these are junk, even one of these lasers that Optotronics has rejected will out perform other models, it just didn't meet one or more of our specs for the RPL-165 (usually average 532nm output power over time), so we couldn't put the Optotronics/RPL name on it.

Yes, good honest competition is and has been a good thing.
What does concern me is that this company has been very honest, they claim to be the manufacturer or at least I think claim this, but they are only another 3rd party company interested in making the quick buck and disappearing and may tarnish the Optotronics name by passing their lower quality product off as the same. It also bothers that they are charging extra for leaving the IR filter in the laser when that is the way they are made. This leads me to believe they are removing this and passing them off as more than they really are.

Keep us posted on your experience and hopefully you can test it with an good thermal power head over time and let us know the results.

Again, I'm sorry for jumping the gun on who and where you originate and hope you forgive me.

Jack
 
If it helps any - I can vouch for Jack in that he only has the most honorable of intentions - despite the fact that he represents a company in good standing, he also hates (as do I, and most everyone on here) to see anyone get ripped off. Whether you buy his product or not (Just being honest, Jack !) he still doesn't want anyone getting soured on lasers !
 
No worries!

Jack, no worries, and no apology necessary.  I know what you mean about 3rd-party distributors posing as customers on forums.  Fortunately, they're pretty easy to spot, and an occasional mistake is certainly worth it to keep them from compromising the conversation.  Actually, anyone with a commercial interest posing as anything other than that is problematic.  Your transparency about your role here is appreciated by many here, I suspect, as are your expertise and desire to serve your customers well.  

I'm glad to have your insights and perspective on my current "experiment" in cutting out the middleman.  As is *always* the case, 1) it's an option available to a customer willing to dig around, 2) not having to pay the markup is highly appealing, and 3) the principle that "you get what you pay for", while not universal, is pretty hard to avoid.  There may be any number of reasons to be concerned over quality.   The company on their website at lge-tech.com claim (in delightfully semi-intelligible English) that they have been ISO 9001 certified since 1992, which may well be true, but then, they claim to have been ISO 14001 certified since that year as well, which is impressive, given that the 14001 standard was not released by until 1996.  Could just be a content-review error that slipped through due to language issues.  At any rate, I do appreciate your concerns about a possible disparity between what I am being told and what is actually going on.  

From looking at their very broad product portfolio and customer list, though, it's clear that unless this entire website is a fiction designed to sell lasers, they're a pretty good sized and legit operation.  Lasers appear to be a fairly small part of their offering, and with 1300 staff, they've likely got plenty of good engineers on the payroll.  My interactions with them, to date, have been first rate.  

You know best here, being in the business, but I'm not entirely sure that the RPL units they are selling were built by another company, such as CNI.  For one thing, the dimensions are slightly different.  Also, they seem to have 3rd-party distributors of their own:  I had other companies over there offering me the same unit, using the same LGE part number, at a markup of $60 or so above the price LGE quoted me.  They also claim an operating time of >8000 hours, vs. the more typical 3000-5000.  If I do end up getting a ~250mW IR-free laser for six hundred and change, I'll be happy.  If this pans out, they've got a 20mW 473 for well under $600 that I've got my eye on too, though that one would be purchased purely for the pleasure of owning it.  

But I don't know how to interpret the above information the way you do. I'd certainly be curious to know how you know that these are not being manufactured directly by LGE.  I'm not doubting you, but that simply wasn't the impression I got from what I've seen and heard.  Potential misrepresentation, of course, was your point in the first place.

Customers of US-based companies like yours pay more for a laser with these specs, but then, they know what they're getting for their money.  Some of that markup is offset, to my mind, by the fact that the industry and market hold you to different production standards, some by your having well-reputed customer service, and some by the fact that I had to pay for this via Western Union.  In my case, though, I can afford to risk $600, I can't afford to spend $1000, and I need to maximize visibility by going as far over the 165mW alternative as I can.  I want to be able to paint the clouds if I get in a pinch.  

I'm eager to see how this all comes out.  Again, no apology needed!  I'd love to know your thoughts on the origins of these units.   I just find it odd to think that what appears to be a very large company with diverse products would start a side offering of lower-quality laser pointers with the filters removed.  Perhaps it's just such a lucrative market that the temptation is irresistible.

Regards,

Robert
 
Well, now it begins. Here's one of the 350mW units for sale on Ebay, with a tasty markup. The photo is the same one that I was sent by LGE in my price quote sheet.

cgi.ebay.co.uk/350mW-Green-laser-pointer-Brand-new-design-CHEAPEST_W0QQitemZ170123742065QQihZ007QQcategoryZ14954QQcmdZViewItem

btw, I did contact them with questions, and I received confirmation that they manufacture all of these units themselves. They've apparently been an electronic components manufacturer since 1966.
 
Re: No worries!

deathray said:
Jack, no worries, and no apology necessary. I know what you mean about 3rd-party distributors posing as customers on forums. Fortunately, they're pretty easy to spot, and an occasional mistake is certainly worth it to keep them from compromising the conversation. Actually, anyone with a commercial interest posing as anything other than that is problematic. Your transparency about your role here is appreciated by many here, I suspect, as are your expertise and desire to serve your customers well.

I'm glad to have your insights and perspective on my current "experiment" in cutting out the middleman. As is *always* the case, 1) it's an option available to a customer willing to dig around, 2) not having to pay the markup is highly appealing, and 3) the principle that "you get what you pay for", while not universal, is pretty hard to avoid. There may be any number of reasons to be concerned over quality. The company on their website at lge-tech.com claim (in delightfully semi-intelligible English) that they have been ISO 9001 certified since 1992, which may well be true, but then, they claim to have been ISO 14001 certified since that year as well, which is impressive, given that the 14001 standard was not released by until 1996. Could just be a content-review error that slipped through due to language issues. At any rate, I do appreciate your concerns about a possible disparity between what I am being told and what is actually going on.

From looking at their very broad product portfolio and customer list, though, it's clear that unless this entire website is a fiction designed to sell lasers, they're a pretty good sized and legit operation. Lasers appear to be a fairly small part of their offering, and with 1300 staff, they've likely got plenty of good engineers on the payroll. My interactions with them, to date, have been first rate.

You know best here, being in the business, but I'm not entirely sure that the RPL units they are selling were built by another company, such as CNI. For one thing, the dimensions are slightly different. Also, they seem to have 3rd-party distributors of their own: I had other companies over there offering me the same unit, using the same LGE part number, at a markup of $60 or so above the price LGE quoted me. They also claim an operating time of >8000 hours, vs. the more typical 3000-5000. If I do end up getting a ~250mW IR-free laser for six hundred and change, I'll be happy. If this pans out, they've got a 20mW 473 for well under $600 that I've got my eye on too, though that one would be purchased purely for the pleasure of owning it.

But I don't know how to interpret the above information the way you do. I'd certainly be curious to know how you know that these are not being manufactured directly by LGE. I'm not doubting you, but that simply wasn't the impression I got from what I've seen and heard. Potential misrepresentation, of course, was your point in the first place.

Customers of US-based companies like yours pay more for a laser with these specs, but then, they know what they're getting for their money. Some of that markup is offset, to my mind, by the fact that the industry and market hold you to different production standards, some by your having well-reputed customer service, and some by the fact that I had to pay for this via Western Union. In my case, though, I can afford to risk $600, I can't afford to spend $1000, and I need to maximize visibility by going as far over the 165mW alternative as I can. I want to be able to paint the clouds if I get in a pinch.

I'm eager to see how this all comes out. Again, no apology needed! I'd love to know your thoughts on the origins of these units. I just find it odd to think that what appears to be a very large company with diverse products would start a side offering of lower-quality laser pointers with the filters removed. Perhaps it's just such a lucrative market that the temptation is irresistible.

Regards,

Robert
Click to expand...

Hi Robert,
I would be careful, too often people believe what they read on a website and take it as fact.
I did a google search on lge-tech.com and all that came up were the alibaba type listings, this is not a good sign as none or very few of the large manufacturers use these type listings, they are used by resale outfits that are trying to get started.

I also looked up the DNS record for them on DNSstuff and it shows the domain was created on Nov. 5th 2006.
Then I did a search using the "wayback machine" to read their website history.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.lge-tech.com

This shows that the website was not online until March 26th of 2007.
These are some of the things I look at before sending my money overseas.
Their story is full of inconsistencies.
 
I agree with Jack, I've done a good bit of research and connected with various laser sellers in China. Usually there is 1 OEM, and a few hundred resellers (I'm barely exaggerating here) who all claim to be the OEM.

I don't know if the LGE company is a scam, I don't see much reason to believe that, but I doubt they are the OEM of these - I believe I actually know the OEM of the RPL units, but of course you can never be sure with these Chinese companies.

I agree with the Alibaba thing Jack said though. Whenever I see an offer on one of those type of sites, I know to keep looking because I'm talking to a reseller, not OEM.

(and of course, there's no problem with going through resellers instead of the OEM. Most of the time its beneficial, and Jack himself is a reseller. However, I have confidence and trust in Jack and his measuring equipment, but I cannot share that trust with the hordes of Chinese resellers who will often make up any BS it takes to get a quick buck off you.)
 
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