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FrozenGate by Avery

Anything above 100W 450nm?

L

likevvii

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Messages
74
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18
I need something around 500~1000W CW near 450nm.

The most powerful I can find are the 100W Nichia nubm31t and nubm34.
I only have designs to direct 2 or 4 arrays to one location. Anymore than 4 will be very difficult to do.

What options do I have?
 





likevvii said:
I need something around 500~1000W CW near 450nm.

The most powerful I can find are the 100W Nichia nubm31t and nubm34.
I only have designs to direct 2 or 4 arrays to one location. Anymore than 4 will be very difficult to do.

What options do I have?
Click to expand...
If it doesn't have to be blue, there are custom laser bars that can go pretty high (like this one: http://www.oriental-laser.com/en/products/idl/74.html)
 
likevvii said:
I need something around 500~1000W CW near 450nm.

The most powerful I can find are the 100W Nichia nubm31t and nubm34.
I only have designs to direct 2 or 4 arrays to one location. Anymore than 4 will be very difficult to do.

What options do I have?
Click to expand...

Ah-Ha, you sound like you just might be a follower of the Heinz Doofensmirtz method of design and construction. :)

1594385014619.png

Seriously if you can only design to direct 4 arrays then I expect your options may be rather limited, however there almost certainly other options, what is it that you want to build ? And the real limiting question is........what is your budget ?
 
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RedCowboy said:
Seriously if you can only design to direct 4 arrays then I expect your options may be rather limited, however there almost certainly other options, what is it that you want to build ? And the real limiting question is........what is your budget ?
Click to expand...
Exactly, RedCowboy

likevvii:
You need a 500W to 1000W 450nm or thereabouts laser for what purpose?

You have no options because there is no rational requirement, demand, or use for same using the diodes and method you are looking at.

In the real world you can buy a CNI lab laser in any number of wavelengths around and including 450nm in the 500W to 1000W single beam output see: http://www.cnilaser.com/blue_laser450.htm

What is it you actually want to do that is not done in the real world already ,and/or can't be accomplished more easily and cost effectively some way other than with a relatively ineffective sloppy reinvent the wheel with $5000-$10,000 effort using laser projector arrays that were never designed to be used that way?
 
Thanks for the suggestions.

I dont really have a set budget. If I had to pick, maybe around 5000usd for the laser solution if i cant build it myself. Something like a coupled fiber or something I've never seen before would be extremely useful for my case.

I am using this for cinema projector phosphor wheels.
On some variants, they can withstand 500W and even up to 1000W.

At the moment, I just use mirrors to direct each array to the phosphor wheel. I have a watercooling plate for each array.
The complexity greatly increases when i go pass 4 arrays because of the mirror structure I need to use.
I am making a portable light powered by batteries, so it needs to be using compact designs.
A knife edge array of arrays could possibly simplify things but may take up extra space and may require different PCX lens for the varying distances. It seems the beams exiting the arrays are parallel enough I might get away with using only one final large PCX lens instead of a PCX lens for each array.

I was told by my phosphor wheel manufacturer that they also just use a bunch of nichia arrays as their laser source for cost effective reasons. Other methods are under NDA and they can't tell me.

If there was a way to put 500W into a fiber optic, that would be amazing and so useful for me.

I wish 450nm had crazy power levels like 808nm does!
 
likevvii said:
Thanks for the suggestions.

I dont really have a set budget. If I had to pick, maybe around 5000usd for the laser solution if i cant build it myself. Something like a coupled fiber or something I've never seen before would be extremely useful for my case.

I am using this for cinema projector phosphor wheels.
On some variants, they can withstand 500W and even up to 1000W.

At the moment, I just use mirrors to direct each array to the phosphor wheel. I have a watercooling plate for each array.
The complexity greatly increases when i go pass 4 arrays because of the mirror structure I need to use.
I am making a portable light powered by batteries, so it needs to be using compact designs.
A knife edge array of arrays could possibly simplify things but may take up extra space and may require different PCX lens for the varying distances. It seems the beams exiting the arrays are parallel enough I might get away with using only one final large PCX lens instead of a PCX lens for each array.

I was told by my phosphor wheel manufacturer that they also just use a bunch of nichia arrays as their laser source for cost effective reasons. Other methods are under NDA and they can't tell me.

If there was a way to put 500W into a fiber optic, that would be amazing and so useful for me.

I wish 450nm had crazy power levels like 808nm does!
Click to expand...
Yeah can't beat N!chia in terms of cost effectiveness. Why don't you just do that 4-laser-source optics thing you have twice using the 115W arrays and then just run the 2 outputs into a PBS cube to produce 1 (really badly diverging) laser beam? You could definitely overclock such a setup to 1kW
 
I was also recommended a PBS cube by the phosphor wheel company. However, I don't see the point to a PBS cube for this useage case. They are not very efficient and I don't really need a single beam if I can just keep directing beams to the same spot. The beam distance is 200mm. Is a beneficial effect of having cross polarization?
***Can someone validate that adding beams and pointing them to the same spot is a valid option? I am not very experienced with wave properties. I know lasers are polarized. Will they cancel each other out or have some unwanted properties? I just assume the polarization that strikes the phosphor wheel has no difference. As it will scatter and be absorbed anyways.
The only important polarization factor I see that needs to be accounted for are the mirrors. I have arranged the arrays to have a S pattern reflection instead of a P so that the efficiency is 99.5% or higher instead of 97.5% for dielectric HR mirror.
The mirrors will be held with resin printed parts, so the thermal properties will be limited.

It will make my life much easier if there is an stand alone unit that can do all the optics and combining and I just have to aim the fiber optic with some basic optics at the phosphor wheel.

001.jpg
 
likevvii said:
I was also recommended a PBS cube by the phosphor wheel company. However, I don't see the point to a PBS cube for this useage case. They are not very efficient and I don't really need a single beam if I can just keep directing beams to the same spot. The beam distance is 200mm. Is a beneficial effect of having cross polarization?
***Can someone validate that adding beams and pointing them to the same spot is a valid option? I am not very experienced with wave properties. I know lasers are polarized. Will they cancel each other out or have some unwanted properties? I just assume the polarization that strikes the phosphor wheel has no difference. As it will scatter and be absorbed anyways.
The only important polarization factor I see that needs to be accounted for are the mirrors. I have arranged the arrays to have a S pattern reflection instead of a P so that the efficiency is 99.5% or higher instead of 97.5% for dielectric HR mirror.
The mirrors will be held with resin printed parts, so the thermal properties will be limited.

It will make my life much easier if there is an stand alone unit that can do all the optics and combining and I just have to aim the fiber optic with some basic optics at the phosphor wheel.

View attachment 69291
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, how were you planning to get the 4 laser arrays (or let alone 1) into a tight beam?
 
I would think that your phosphor wheel manufacturer would have a line on arrays and could give you the best options to make use of their product, but a PBS cube to combine 100w arrays............something is a miss here.

Who makes your phosphor wheel....Materion ?
Who is the maker of your projector ?
Are you manufacturing cinema projectors ?
Why would you ask hobbyist about how to make your cinema projector work ?

 
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@gazer101

I have a cube stack:
-Water cooling block
-nubm31t
-PCX lens - 200mm FL

The laser spot size is about 2mm.

I could just make a bunch of these cubes and arrange them in any way I want.
My current design calls for 2 cubes, for a total of around 180W which is very high for this sized phosphor wheel. Hence why I have custom fans at the top and bottom to cool it.

@RedCowboy

I'm a nobody, that just wants to make bright lights for fun. I don't know anything about projectors.
I am in contact with phosphor and phosphor wheel manufacturers only. Not with projector companies.

It seems the cinemanext pdf you showed is using knife edging arrays to combine the beam.

Edit:

Actually, I just realized, they did not say a PBS cube. The diagram mentioned a dichroic filter. But I thought filters only work when you have different wavelengths. Maybe they misunderstood my question.
 
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Have you torn down any of the home data projectors ?

Here's one of mine I took the lid off of the lightbox to see it work, it knife edges the laser diodes and lenses them through a dicro to the phosphor wheel and if bounces green/yellow light back off the other side of the same dicro and through the color box....but I still don't know what your goal is so.....

I am pretty good with mechanical solutions but I need to understand what you are trying to build, a laser pumped phosphor wheel spotlight ?

The LEP is pumped with 405 to make white but the projector phosphor wheel is pumped with 450 and makes greenish-yellow.....I'm not going to keep guessing, you need to tell me your general goal.

SANY5040.JPG

SANY5041.JPG

The blue laser comes through the dicro from top to bottom and the phosphor wheel has a gap to pass some blue through, the phosphor glows very bright green/yellow and that can't get back through the dicro so it reflects off to the right and red passes left to right from a red emitter on the left, there are other dicros/mirrors/lenses in the box to make white from RGB......so....Blue and red goes in and white comes out with the help of the phosphor to make green from blue.

1594431596310.png
 
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I never bought any projectors because I don't know which ones demonstrate an effective use of the phosphor.
In addition, the cheap ones only use the color wheel, not phosphor wheels.

In my case, I don't need to split anything into separate RGB. Just the light emitted off the phosphor wheel is what I am after.
I measured with a spectrometer and it can be considered as white light.
There is a parabolic reflector to collimate the light emitted off the wheel.
The parabolic reflector has a hole at the center so the laser can pass through it.

To simplify my application, we can basically treat the emitted phosphor area as an LED.
 
Ah I see, hole in the center of your reflector, that's why you need all your laser in one beam.
You could set your phosphor wheel at an angle as well as your reflector so you don't block any of your light with the phosphor wheel, kind of like the laser headlights. That would also let you focus multiple arrays onto your phosphor wheel.

www.popularmechanics.com

How It Works: BMW i8 Laser Headlights

The lights on the hybrid BMW of the future are energy-efficient, crazy-cooland illegal in the United States. Stupid laws strike again.
www.popularmechanics.com www.popularmechanics.com
 
likevvii said:
@gazer101

I have a cube stack:
-Water cooling block
-nubm31t
-PCX lens - 200mm FL

The laser spot size is about 2mm.

I could just make a bunch of these cubes and arrange them in any way I want.
My current design calls for 2 cubes, for a total of around 180W which is very high for this sized phosphor wheel. Hence why I have custom fans at the top and bottom to cool it.

@RedCowboy

I'm a nobody, that just wants to make bright lights for fun. I don't know anything about projectors.
I am in contact with phosphor and phosphor wheel manufacturers only. Not with projector companies.

It seems the cinemanext pdf you showed is using knife edging arrays to combine the beam.

Edit:

Actually, I just realized, they did not say a PBS cube. The diagram mentioned a dichroic filter. But I thought filters only work when you have different wavelengths. Maybe they misunderstood my question.
Click to expand...
Do all the individual diodes in the laser array in your setup converge onto a 2mm point, or do they form a tight beam (eg. I could shine it 1 or 10ft away and still see a small spot)?
 
It doesn't necessarily have to beam in one beam. It just needs needs to land and be focused onto one spot.

Without the PCX lens, The Nichia array can be assumed it is focused to infinity. It is only a 2mm spot because I add in the 200mm FL PCX lens.


I identified the components of my block:
WC - water cooling
nichia - nubm31t
PCX - Plano convex lens 200mm Focal length
002.jpg
003.jpg

I guess If I really do need something like 1000W, I will basically just knife edge all of them. Or look into fiber coupling.
But then again, I could just make an RGB laser and call that a "spotlight" too.

I found this:

Blue High Power Diode Laser up to 4 kW | LASERLINE

The blue laser is the ideal system for the processing of copper, gold and other highly reflective metals. Higher absorption allows lower intensities and larger laser spots.
www.laserline.com www.laserline.com

Looks pretty neat, but I bet it will cost so much, and they wont sell it unless I have some kind of certification! ):
 
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