New 8x Blu-Ray burner?!

daguin said:

[quote author=charlie bruce link=1235584363/16#23 date=1235867462]You certainly have a rigid set of morals and that is certainly worth a lot of respect. Sadly people like you are becoming few and far between. One thing I've noticed however, is that there is a distinct shortage of 6X diodes - nobody seems to be selling any. If 6X units aren't in the affordable and accessible range, what hope is there for a newer and potentially more powerful sled being available?
Also, is it just that I'm not looking in the right places, or are 6X diodes simply unavailable anywhere? LSP, the BST section, and all the GBs are dead, and the major members' shops are all in completed modules with driver that I'd never end up using...

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It's my Momma's fault

I posted some theories and predictions in another thread, but they are worth repeating part of them here.  

There is ONLY ONE reason why the PHR diodes are so plentiful and cheap.  They are from a failed technology (HD DVD).  We started buying them so the Chinese figured out that they were worth money.  Instead of simply sending the entire units to the scrapper (as was planned), they started removing the sleds to sell to us.  I believe we have spurred a "cottage industry" in China around these diodes.  Manufacturers are VERY good at estimating need.  They don't make massive over-production runs.  The 6X will NOT follow the way of the PHR.  They will become more available as "maintenance and repair" supplies are produced, but never the way the PHR's are.  The 6X's are NOT part of a failed technology.  They are simply a step in an orderly progression from one strength of diode to the next. (i.e. The 8X's are ready, but they didn't want to release them until the stock of existing 6X's was drawn down enough)

The first couple of batches of 6X's that made it out were all QC rejects.  We may have already dug deeply into the supply of them.  Also, the 6X sleds are running around $55 apiece!  The PHR's are running about $7.50 apiece.  Buying 50 6X ($2,750) sleds is a bit harder on the budget than buying 50 PHR's ($375)  

In order to make a store viable, the price of a sled should be at least two times the cost.  With the plethora of $12 PHR sleds, how many people would be willing to pay $110 for a 6X sled?  I have people PM'ing me saying that $180 for a completed 6X laser is just too much to pay.  I invite them to get their own sled, driver, and host and I will help them build their own.  In order to make back the needed profit to remain solvent, the only way to do it is to make a finished product.

$60 diode
$25 driver
$5 module
$8 battery
$25 heat sink
$25 host (or $50 plain Kryton; or $70 custom anodized Kryton)
$7 PayPal fees
$13 postage
$2 packaging

Total cost to me = $145 (or $170 plain Kryton, or $190 custom anodized Kryton)

PLUS 3% to cover necessary warranty work = ($150; $175; $196)

Add a carrying case and/or a charger (another $20) = ($170; $195; $216)

At this point, I still haven't made a dime!  So at just twice the cost of building a laser, they should cost $240; $390; & $432

Peace,
dave

[highlight]@ Rangedunits[/highlight] -- I "shoplifted" a bottle of cheap wine when I was 14.  I drank it and got sick.  I still remember it.  I started mowing lawns when I was 10.  I had my first paper route when I was 11.  By 12 I was going door-to-door selling subscriptions to the LA Times.  At 14 I had my first hourly job.  By 17 I was in the Air Force.

I even return excess change to the checkout person.[/quote]
Lol, how do you steal a bottle of wine? ;D

At a guess, you take it off the shelf, and hide it in a bag when nobody's looking. I'm guessing this was the pre-CCTV era...

Spyderz20x6 said:

Lol, how do you steal a bottle of wine? ;D

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You stick it down the over-sized sleeve of your over-sized coat, hook your thumb in your pocket to keep your arm bent, and walk casually out of the store. The hardest part is explaining to your mother why you smell like that in the morning :-[

Yes. It was before CCTV. It was barely after color TV was available to the public in their homes

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

It's my Momma's fault

I posted some theories and predictions in another thread, but they are worth repeating part of them here.  

There is ONLY ONE reason why the PHR diodes are so plentiful and cheap.  They are from a failed technology (HD DVD).  We started buying them so the Chinese figured out that they were worth money.  Instead of simply sending the entire units to the scrapper (as was planned), they started removing the sleds to sell to us.  I believe we have spurred a "cottage industry" in China around these diodes.  Manufacturers are VERY good at estimating need.  They don't make massive over-production runs.  The 6X will NOT follow the way of the PHR.  They will become more available as "maintenance and repair" supplies are produced, but never the way the PHR's are.  The 6X's are NOT part of a failed technology.  They are simply a step in an orderly progression from one strength of diode to the next. (i.e. The 8X's are ready, but they didn't want to release them until the stock of existing 6X's was drawn down enough)

The first couple of batches of 6X's that made it out were all QC rejects.  We may have already dug deeply into the supply of them.  Also, the 6X sleds are running around $55 apiece!  The PHR's are running about $7.50 apiece.  Buying 50 6X ($2,750) sleds is a bit harder on the budget than buying 50 PHR's ($375)  

In order to make a store viable, the price of a sled should be at least two times the cost.  With the plethora of $12 PHR sleds, how many people would be willing to pay $110 for a 6X sled?  I have people PM'ing me saying that $180 for a completed 6X laser is just too much to pay.  I invite them to get their own sled, driver, and host and I will help them build their own.  In order to make back the needed profit to remain solvent, the only way to do it is to make a finished product.

$60 diode
$25 driver
$5 module
$8 battery
$25 heat sink
$25 host (or $50 plain Kryton; or $70 custom anodized Kryton)
$7 PayPal fees
$13 postage
$2 packaging

Total cost to me = $145 (or $170 plain Kryton, or $190 custom anodized Kryton)

PLUS 3% to cover necessary warranty work = ($150; $175; $196)

Add a carrying case and/or a charger (another $20) = ($170; $195; $216)

At this point, I still haven't made a dime!  So at just twice the cost of building a laser, they should cost $240; $390; & $432

Peace,
dave

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This fact about the PHR diodes/sleds being “failed” technology is very disturbing to me. Does this mean they aren’t going to be produced much longer? If so, I need to stock up now, don’t I?

Also, where can the PHR sleds be bought for $7.50? This sounds great. And even before I have heard from you about the fact that PHR’s were failed technology, I was still planning to stock up on at least 20 sleds. So it would be great to pay $150 instead of $340 (buying them from Modwerx for $17 apiece).

By the way, I never knew that building and selling lasers was such an unprofitable business!

-Jakob

Pianoman, I guess you never discovered modwerx.com/phr_sale has it for $12 shipped in the US? Also some people in the BST section have them extracted for less. I've not seen it cheaper than that except in GBs. If you're buying in large quantities, then searching around enough will point you towards a few Chinese dealers. I've been worrying for some time about what happens when stocks of PHR's drops and prices shoot up again. The guy with a warehouse full of them and holds on long enough will become very rich indeed.

charlie bruce said:

Pianoman, I guess you never discovered modwerx.com/phr_sale has it for $12 shipped in the US? Also some people in the BST section have them extracted for less. I've not seen it cheaper than that except in GBs. If you're buying in large quantities, then searching around enough will point you towards a few Chinese dealers. I've been worrying for some time about what happens when stocks of PHR's drops and prices shoot up again. The guy with a warehouse full of them and holds on long enough will become very rich indeed.

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Ahh. Thank you very much for the link. I will buy them from here. I think I will buy 20-50... would that be considered a large enough quantity? (but first I have to make enough money to do so). And are you positive that PHR prices will go up again? Now that they are developing newer 405nm LD technologies for cheaper, the PHR might become a thing of the past, or at least a very cheap item so buying them now and waiting to sell them might not be that profitable. Or am I wrong?

But for now, the PHR is very handy and the demand is high.

-Jakob

The PHR's are already a "thing of the past."  They are from HD DVD units that were salvaged.  No one is making the PHR-803T sled anymore.

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

The PHR's are already a "thing of the past."  They are from HD DVD units that were salvaged.  No one is making the PHR-803T sled anymore.

Peace,
dave

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This kinda makes me sad. Do you have a guess about how long until they run out?

pianoman2011 said:

[quote author=daguin link=1235584363/32#38 date=1235942620]The PHR's are already a "thing of the past."  They are from HD DVD units that were salvaged.  No one is making the PHR-803T sled anymore.
Peace,
dave

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This kinda makes me sad. Do you have a guess about how long until they run out? [/quote]


Not a clue. You'll have to ask the Chinese. They are very shrewd business people.

I know that some of the dealers with 6X's were "requiring" a purchase of a batch PHR's to get the 6X's. They were already afraid that they were going to be "stuck" with the last of these "damaged" PHR sleds

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

[quote author=pianoman2011 link=1235584363/32#39 date=1235967288][quote author=daguin link=1235584363/32#38 date=1235942620]The PHR's are already a "thing of the past."  They are from HD DVD units that were salvaged.  No one is making the PHR-803T sled anymore.
Peace,
dave

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This kinda makes me sad. Do you have a guess about how long until they run out? [/quote]


Not a clue.  You'll have to ask the Chinese.  They are very shrewd business people.  

I know that some of the dealers with 6X's were "requiring" a purchase of a batch PHR's to get the 6X's.  They were already afraid that they were going to be "stuck" with the last of  these "damaged" PHR sleds

Peace,
dave[/quote]
They are VERY sly business people...
Personally, i hate dealing with them (no offense meant).
They will take every chance to try to rip or throw you off.

Spyderz20x6 said:

They are VERY sly business people...
Personally, i hate dealing with them (no offense meant).
They will take every chance to try to rip or throw you off.

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Absofreakenlutely!

Most of them that I have dealt with have no problem whatsoever with lying to make a sale.

Of course not all are like that, but so far the majority I have had interaction with are.

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

[quote author=Spyderz20x6 link=1235584363/32#41 date=1235968302]
They are VERY sly business people...
Personally, i hate dealing with them (no offense meant).
They will take every chance to try to rip or throw you off.

Click to expand...

Absofreakenlutely!

Most of them that I have dealt with have no problem whatsoever with lying to make a sale.

Of course not all are like that, but so far the majority I have had interaction with are.

Peace,
dave[/quote]

I have not experience bussiness-wise with them. But thanks for the warning. Were the PHR batches that you had to buy for the 6X at least a good deal?

pianoman2011 said:

I have not experience bussiness-wise with them. But thanks for the warning. Were the PHR batches that you had to buy for the 6X at least a good deal?

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I have reported this elsewhere. Including all "fees" associated with buying from a Chinese dealer, the cost for "damaged" PHR's was about $7.60 per sled, with a minimum order of 50 sleds.

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

I have reported this elsewhere.  Including all "fees" associated with buying from a Chinese dealer, the cost for "damaged" PHR's was about $7.60 per sled, with a minimum order of 50 sleds.

Peace,
dave

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Could you possibly give me a link where to buy these? And any 6X sleds `cause I have looked everywhere for those.

pianoman2011 said:

[quote author=daguin link=1235584363/32#44 date=1235969727]
I have reported this elsewhere.  Including all "fees" associated with buying from a Chinese dealer, the cost for "damaged" PHR's was about $7.60 per sled, with a minimum order of 50 sleds.
Peace,
dave

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Could you possibly give me a link where to buy these? And any 6X sleds `cause I have looked everywhere for those.[/quote]


Apparently you haven't looked "everywhere." If you are going to go into business, you are going to have to learn how to research and be willing to take chances.  Why would I or any other seller/builder tell you where to get diodes for wholesale prices when we sell them retail?

Peace,
dave

daguin said:

Apparently you haven't looked "everywhere."  If you are going to go into business, you are going to have to learn how to research and be willing to take chances.  Why would I or any other seller/builder tell you where to get diodes for wholesale prices when we sell them retail?

Peace,
dave

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That's very true, Dave. I do need to learn how to research and take the right chances, but for now I am only 15 and have a lot more experience ahead of me. But I certainly am not posing as competition to you and your buyers. I have just gotten into lasers, haven't even built a functional laser housing, have not sold laser product to anybody, and plan to sell to a completely different group of people than I assume you are selling to. Not to mention the fact that I currently have about $20 to spend on lasers, and have no time to earn money since I am constantly working to keep from being expelled from my boarding school that I really hate being in. I was just asking for a favor from who I considered and still do consider to be a really nice guy, and one who wants to help others about lasers. Plus, these diodes were not to sell yet, I am still experimenting with different laser systems and all of the diodes I will but will most likely be casualties of experimentation. But you are very right about people not wanting to give up their sources because of competition.