Old 05-04-2015, 07:41 PM #1
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Default Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Hey guys,
So after some back and forth in another thread about the trusted company Ultra Lasers whom are a re-seller of CNI products not shipping >5mW hand helds to the USA I went ahead and emailed them. The response I got is very good news for US citizens. They anticipate resuming shipping here in 4-6 weeks time. Hopefully they are correct and if so this opens up a very great libe of hand held high power lasers back to the United States!
Lets keep our fingers crossed.
-Jeff


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Old 05-04-2015, 08:08 PM #2
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

So how bout some yellow goodness? This could be just what us hobbiests need! Good find
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Old 05-04-2015, 08:40 PM #3
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10fenny View Post
So how bout some yellow goodness? This could be just what us hobbiests need! Good find
Exactly! They quoted me $1030 for the 80mW 589 PGL. I am on a waiting list for them to email me when they get the green light. I think this is the option I will go with over Armlaser.com who quoted me $960 but is much less reputable.
Now we will have an alternative to DL and maybe Adam will chill out with the attitude now that they no longer have the market to themselves for US sales of 589.
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:27 PM #4
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quick question, does CNI not ship anything over 5mw to the US, or just pointers/portables?
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:54 PM #5
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Just pointers and hand held units.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:46 AM #6
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

That's great news!! Having the ability to purchase more lasers & having a wider selection I think is very welcomed on LPF

-Alex
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:01 AM #7
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2Oxide View Post
Quick question, does CNI not ship anything over 5mw to the US, or just pointers/portables?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
Just pointers and hand held units.
If it plugs into the wall you can import it, it's battery powered units that are restricted.

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Old 05-06-2015, 01:03 AM #8
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
The response I got is very good news for US citizens. They anticipate being allowed to ship here in 4-6 weeks time. Hopefully they are correct and if so this opens up a very great libe of hand held high power lasers back to the United States!
Lets keep our fingers crossed.
-Jeff
Good news for US citizens? There is no indication or evidence that the any of the Laws, Rules, or Regulations concerning handheld lasers in the USA and Canada are going to change in any way in the foreseeable future.

"They anticipate being allowed to ship here in 4-6 weeks time." Allowed by who ?

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Old 05-06-2015, 02:23 AM #9
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
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Good news for US citizens? There is no indication or evidence that the any of the Laws, Rules, or Regulations concerning handheld lasers in the USA and Canada is going to change in any way.

"They anticipate being allowed to ship here in 4-6 weeks time." Allowed by who ?
I dunno man. Its just what the email said.
Also, why do companies like CNI and laser Glow advertise and even stamp their units FDA compliant safety features yet can't ship here? Is it the case that say an 80mW 589 pointer is allowed to be sold and imported as long as it has the key, shutter, and plug? If not then why do the refer to it as FDA compliant and even bother?

I re-read the email maybe this will make more sense. They didn't say they would be allowed they said they expect to have the problem fixed. So possibly it is more likely they won't be flagged any longer or have devised a way to ship them under a different name or such. I edited the OP for accuracy.
I'm just the messenger email them and ask if your wanting to know more.
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:03 AM #10
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
I dunno man. Its just what the email said.
Also, why do companies like CNI and laser Glow advertise and even stamp their units FDA compliant safety features yet can't ship here? Is it the case that say an 80mW 589 pointer is allowed to be sold and imported as long as it has the key, shutter, and plug? If not then why do the refer to it as FDA compliant and even bother?

I re-read the email maybe this will make more sense. They didn't say they would be allowed they said they expect to have the problem fixed. So possibly it is more likely they won't be flagged any longer or have devised a way to ship them under a different name or such. I edited the OP for accuracy.
I'm just the messenger email them and ask if your wanting to know more.
IIRC you can't advertise it as a "pointer" at all if it's >5mw, even if it has all the required safety features. But CNI advertises >5mw handhelds as a "portable lasers", so I don't know.

Also can you post the email? Some may interpret it differently.
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:06 AM #11
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
I dunno man. Its just what the email said.
Also, why do companies like CNI and laser Glow advertise and even stamp their units FDA compliant safety features yet can't ship here? Is it the case that say an 80mW 589 pointer is allowed to be sold and imported as long as it has the key, shutter, and plug? If not then why do the refer to it as FDA compliant and even bother?

I re-read the email maybe this will make more sense. They didn't say they would be allowed they said they expect to have the problem fixed. So possibly it is more likely they won't be flagged any longer or have devised a way to ship them under a different name or such. I edited the OP for accuracy.
I'm just the messenger email them and ask if your wanting to know more.
Both CNI and Laser Glow are listed on the FDA import alert, but Ultra Lasers doesn't appear to be listed unless they are part of another company. I see they are in Toronto as is Laser Glow, so I am surprised they can even import high power battery powered lasers to resell them, maybe they can if they are for export only. In any case I suspect it could be a temporary thing before the FDA and customs is on to them, so if they start shipping here buy while you can.

Import Alert 95-04

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Old 05-06-2015, 06:40 AM #12
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

It's not too clear, but the very last part looks promising.

We can always hope for the best!
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:08 PM #13
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

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Originally Posted by H2Oxide View Post
IIRC you can't advertise it as a "pointer" at all if it's >5mw, even if it has all the required safety features. But CNI advertises >5mw handhelds as a "portable lasers", so I don't know.

Also can you post the email? Some may interpret it differently.
From LaserGlow's web site: "In the USA, lasers are regulated by the FDA. According to the Code of Federal Regulations (21CFR1040.10), lasers which are portable and battery-operated or those which are intended for alignment applications are defined as "surveying, levelling, or alignment lasers(s)" (SLA lasers), regardless of their intended purpose, and these are restricted to FDA Class IIIa/IEC Class 3R or lower."

Seems FDA no longer cares what it is promoted for SLA is SLA--- this from: Surveying, Leveling, or Alignment Laser Products - Draft Guidance for Industry and Food and Drug Administration Staff

"Certain design features allow SLA lasers to be used in open spaces or in unrestricted environments to determine and delineate the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement, position or adjust parts in proper relation to one another, or define a plane, level, elevation, or straight line. These design features include:
Compact size (i.e. small, lightweight)
Battery power
Ergonomic design to permit hand-held use
An aperture in the laser product's protective housing to transmit laser emission into open space
Portability to permit use in open spaces or in unrestricted environments
Features that utilize the laser’s straight line emission for surveying, leveling, or alignment
Generally, FDA will consider these design features as evidence that the laser product was designed for one or more of the uses listed in the SLA laser definition at 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(39). Therefore, FDA will generally consider laser products with these design features to fall under the definition of an SLA laser product and to be subject to the requirements identified in 21 CFR 1040.11(b) regardless of whether such laser products are promoted for SLA laser uses."

"The class limit in 21 CFR 1040.11(b) is intended to impose an upper exposure limit on accessible laser emission to ensure the safety of users and others. This limit takes into account the product’s intended uses and the generally unrestricted environments in which SLA laser products are used.
Note: 21 CFR 1040.11(b) establishes an upper class limit for all SLA laser products as Class IIIa, which has an accessible emission limit of 5 milliwatts."

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
sales@ultralasers.com
May 2 (3 days ago)

Hello Jeff,
Thank you for your interest in our product, I really appreciate it.
For the 589nm handheld laser, as the distributor of CNI, we are not allowed to ship any handheld lasers over 5mW to USA presently, too. I am not sure what is the date we can ship to US, but I expect this problem can be fixed within 4~6 weeks.

I am really sorry for not helping you with it, your understanding will be appreciated.

Best regards,
Shawn Wang
Ultralasers, Inc


Thank you Mr. Wang,
So you expect to be able to ship to the USA in a couple months? If so that is great news. Can you tell me what the price is for the laser? PGL-III-C 589 80mW? I will wait to place my order till you can ship here.
Best regards
Jeff


Hello Jeff,
Thanks again for your email.
I will inform you when I can ship the laser to USA. The current price for >80mW 589nm handheld laser (PGL-III-C-589-80) is $1100USD/pc.
Have a nice day.
To me it sounds like Ultralasers was just politely declining the sale and shipping to USA. The "fix in 4-6 weeks" just part of politely telling you no--not worth the legal and business risks.
As mentioned before, there is no indication the that the laws, rules, and regulations are going to change in a way that will allow SLA lasers greater than 5mW to be legally shipped or imported into the USA without a " variance".

See 12 March 2015 FDA Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers specifically the "What Is a Laser Pointer" section and the "Does FDA have a mandatory limit on the power emitted by laser pointers?" here: http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-Emittin.../ucm116373.htm

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Old 05-06-2015, 09:29 PM #14
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
From LaserGlow's web site: "In the USA, lasers are regulated by the FDA. According to the Code of Federal Regulations (21CFR1040.10), lasers which are portable and battery-operated or those which are intended for alignment applications are defined as "surveying, levelling, or alignment lasers(s)" (SLA lasers), regardless of their intended purpose, and these are restricted to FDA Class IIIa/IEC Class 3R or lower."

Seems FDA no longer cares what it is promoted for SLA is SLA--- this from: Surveying, Leveling, or Alignment Laser Products - Draft Guidance for Industry and Food and Drug Administration Staff

"Certain design features allow SLA lasers to be used in open spaces or in unrestricted environments to determine and delineate the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement, position or adjust parts in proper relation to one another, or define a plane, level, elevation, or straight line. These design features include:
Compact size (i.e. small, lightweight)
Battery power
Ergonomic design to permit hand-held use
An aperture in the laser product's protective housing to transmit laser emission into open space
Portability to permit use in open spaces or in unrestricted environments
Features that utilize the laserís straight line emission for surveying, leveling, or alignment
Generally, FDA will consider these design features as evidence that the laser product was designed for one or more of the uses listed in the SLA laser definition at 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(39). Therefore, FDA will generally consider laser products with these design features to fall under the definition of an SLA laser product and to be subject to the requirements identified in 21 CFR 1040.11(b) regardless of whether such laser products are promoted for SLA laser uses."

"The class limit in 21 CFR 1040.11(b) is intended to impose an upper exposure limit on accessible laser emission to ensure the safety of users and others. This limit takes into account the productís intended uses and the generally unrestricted environments in which SLA laser products are used.
Note: 21 CFR 1040.11(b) establishes an upper class limit for all SLA laser products as Class IIIa, which has an accessible emission limit of 5 milliwatts."



To me it just sounds like Ultralasers was just politely declining the sale and shipping to USA. The "fix in 4-6 weeks" just part of politely telling you , no.
As mentioned before there is no indication the that the laws, rules, and regulations are going to change in a way that will allow SLA lasers greater than 5mW to be legally shipped or imported into the USA without a " variance".

See 12 March 2015 FDA Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers specifically the "What Is a Laser Pointer" section and the "Does FDA have a mandatory limit on the power emitted by laser pointers?" here: Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers
Well, I guess we'll know in 4-6 weeks.

The SLA thing makes me want to mount handles on a 10 watt argon and shine it around.

"HOW'S THIS FOR AN ALIGNMENT TOOL?"
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:56 PM #15
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

I disagree. They had no problem telling me no it would just say no we can't ship to the US. And also why would he say I'll let you know when we can ship?
Like H2O said we'll find out in six weeks.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:55 PM #16
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Default Re: Good news for U.S. residents that want >5mW CNI handhelds.

Meh. I hate waiting.

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