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Old 08-06-2011, 03:41 AM #1
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Default FS: "Mosquito" Version 2 - All In One 1.2W+ 445nm Modules - 1667 mA

"A Humbling Lesson in Selling to Fellow Enthusiasts"

Well, after perhaps half a dozen sales on LPF, to perhaps 3 dozen elsewhere, I'm sad to say that selling these at $75 to the LPF community is proving to be a huge loss-leader. The LPF sales have proven to be a money-loosing proposition. Some may find it interesting to read my reasons.


At $75, the Mosquitoes are not a sustainable item on LPF

At $75 to the community (less than I was selling them for elsewhere), I was making them with almost no profit margin on LPF (perhaps $12). When I produced a batch of 10, there were generally 1 to 2 diodes that couldn't handle the high 1,666mA currents that these are being run at, which meant that it effectively took 12 diodes to produce 10 modules. The LPF sales were a zero profit margin endeavor with that consideration in mind.


However, that wasn't the deal killer.

I wasn't trying to make any kind of substantial profit here. These were meant as really easy drop-in modules for people who were getting stared in the hobby. They were supposed to be a quick and easy way to get a good functioning high powered blue laser for inquisitive new entrants into the community who were not yet ready to jump into a complete DIY yet. I wanted to sell them at an awesome price, as a way to get new entrants into the hobby engaged in doing more than just posting a thread in the BST saying "WTB: 1W blue laser!!!!"

Of course, anyone is free to purchase anything from me, and it would be crazy (even borderline sleazy and unethical) to say "no vets allowed". My skin cringes. But, as a junior-mini-semi-vet (fair characterization I hope), I can certainly attest to the fact that we have high expectations in the laser hobby community. Heck, even five or six builds into the hobby, most hobbyests start to develop high expectations. Again, that's cool, and that's why we're on the cutting edge of a fringe hobby, those high expectations are a good thing.


Unfortunately, it also makes the idea of a really low-cost all-in-one laser module, unsustainable.

Of the half a dozen LPF sales, 3 of those have proven to take more time and overhead than the entirety of all 35-ish sales I've made elsewhere. In the end, those 3 LPF sales have done relatively little for my feeling of having contributed something positive to the community, that others were happy about. So, at almost zero profit, it just doesn't make sense to keep producing these.

Despite my own (perhaps naive) notion of who the target market for these modules would be, the sales on LPF have generally been to somewhat experienced users, who are drawn to the notion of saving some build time, with LPMs, and power expectations to go with them.


If I was selling these for $100

Then I'd cherry-pick high efficiency diodes, custom set the current on each driver, LPM each module, include chart printouts with the purchases, and warrant every sale with a power guarantee.

But I didn't want to sell these for $100 as a premium item, nor does it do any good to continue selling them for $75 to members who consistently expect high efficiency diodes. Not when 1/3rd of the buyers get low efficiency diodes and are unhappy, 1/3rd are lukewarm, and only the remaining 1/3rd (who get high efficiency diodes) are really happy (yet tend to remain silent anyway). It's loose/loose/win for me, and I'm just not cool putting my name behind a proposition with odds that are so poorly stacked against me. In the end, this was a cool idea, but I messed up in determining the target market.


Now what?

First and foremost, to the two purchasers with Mosquitoes in the mail right now - you'll of course get my full attention and support through your process of building your lasers. That doesn't change just because I'm not selling these going forward.

In figuring out what to do next with this thread, and with this concept, my first gut thought was "Post the Eagle PCB file on the forum, donate it to the public, and let everyone use it however they see fit!". I love this idea - it's totally in line with my approach to contributing to the community.

But then it occurred to me that while the V3 of this module was designed by me from the ground up, the V1 and V2 were designed for me by another forum member. While I gave him a 445 diode as a thank-you, the designs really should be seen as the result of his brain-power, not mine. So ethically speaking, the V1 and V2 schematics and PCB designs are not mine to give away. However, the V3 (which would have been very cool!) IS. So V3, once the boards arrive and I can test that the schematic + design works, will be donated to the forum. The V3 schematic / PCB is a quad AMC-7135 driver, that is smaller than V1/V2, and has a substantially lower voltage dropout.

I'm considering selling a "Mosquito Kit", consisting of a driver, diode (pressed), lens, wires, spring, and then a bunch of resistor combinations so that purchasers can set their own current, attach the diode in whatever configuration they want, add leads and a spring, etc. We'll see. I'd love feedback as to whether this would be a valuable contribution to the community, or whether I'd be likely to wind up saying the same thing as above, a month from now.

I also have a very cool "Mosquito Red" driver in the works for our 635 Mitsubishis, that I may sell on it's own. Stay tuned for that. And of course, the big whopper project (project "NovaLuxy") that I've been engaged in for 4 or 5 months now, is looking fairly close to some tangible success.

-------------
-------------















------------------------------------------------------
"Mosquito" Version 2

Complete 445nm Diode+Module+Driver+Lens

------------------------------------------------------

Intended as all-in-one, ready to use, 445nm modules. I think these will be useful DIY components for both beginners and pros alike.



HERE ARE THE SPECS:
- 445nm Diode Pressed into a Standard 12mm Aixiz Module
- 1084 Based Low-Dropout Custom Driver
---- @ 1,667 mA Output Current
---- Reverse polarity protection built-in
---- Driver runs fine unheatsinked for at least 4 minutes (potentially 3 inside a host with no airflow)
---- The Mosquitoes run off 7.2V (so two lithium ion cells).
- Glass 445nm Coated Aixiz Lens



-----------------------------------------------------------

Looking for a host?
The Mosquitoes work in hosts that use two (2) lithium ion cells. Jayrob has some great hosts that he's tested these Mosquitoes in:

FS: SolarForce L2P Kit! - 18650 Host With Massive Heatsink...

FS: Stainless Steel 18650 Kit! Polished! Perfect for 445...

FS: Large Maglite Monster Kits! FlexModP3, Side Button Forward Clicky!

Or, consider giving your output power even more of a boost, with the 405-G-1 lens!
FS: 405-G-1 Glass Lens Mod - 31% Increase vs AixiZ!

-----------------------------------------------------------

YOU NEED SAFETY GLASSES!

Don't forget, safety glasses are absolutely a must if you plan to install these into a host and power them up, even when merely testing them. Safety first - don't risk your eyesight.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Here's an example of building, and then de-building, a Coleman 445nm laser with the Mosquito. In 60 seconds
‪Building & Unbuilding a 445nm in 60 seconds.‬‏ - YouTube


Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
FS: "Mosquito" Version 2 - All In One 1.2W+ 445nm Modules - 1667 mA-1.jpg   FS: "Mosquito" Version 2 - All In One 1.2W+ 445nm Modules - 1667 mA-leads2.jpg  


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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 10-01-2011 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:12 AM #2
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Do these drivers require heat sinking?

Peace,
dave
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:17 AM #3
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Your really creative with names arent you rhd

Nice job, these will be great for people looking for a simple drop in for their kits
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:20 AM #4
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
Do these drivers require heat sinking?

Peace,
dave
At some stage they would, but I've been testing each module for 2.5 minutes (EDIT: Just tested it to 4 minutes, and the IC is fine un-heatsinked). These use a larger package size for the IC than some other DDL-based drivers that I've used, and that contributes to their heat-endurance.

Props to Jufran for helping me with the PCB layout btw.
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SAFETY & IMPORTANT READING (threads authored and contributed to by various members of LPF):
- Federal Aviation Administration - Laser Safety Initiative (link)
- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)


Last edited by rhd; 08-06-2011 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:42 AM #5
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Finally found something to do with those 445 diodes rhd? lol

Great job BTW.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:08 AM #6
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Hold on, sorry if I sound like an idiot... but could you theoretically put this in a newwish host? Heatsinking aside...
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:19 AM #7
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenzir View Post
Hold on, sorry if I sound like an idiot... but could you theoretically put this in a newwish host? Heatsinking aside...
I'm not sure - I can think of two challenges:
1) The button, you'd need to at that somewhere inline with the button hole
2) Size. The driver board itself is just a tad (maybe 1mm) too large to itself fit in a 12mm heatsink. If there's any extra room inside a NewWish host, you'd be fine, but if not, no-go.
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- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)

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Old 08-06-2011, 08:33 AM #8
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

It would also need Heatsinking in which the new wish host has none.
Quote:
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I'm not sure - I can think of two challenges:
1) The button, you'd need to at that somewhere inline with the button hole
2) Size. The driver board itself is just a tad (maybe 1mm) too large to itself fit in a 12mm heatsink. If there's any extra room inside a NewWish host, you'd be fine, but if not, no-go.
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Old 08-06-2011, 05:46 PM #9
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

What are the dimensions of the driver?
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:06 PM #10
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Great job RHD. Those look really nice. I've got a ton of flashlights I just got from Moh. If I can come up with cheap heatsinks these would make some nice lasers in those hosts.

I wish the switch wasn't messed up in my Coleman MAX CR2, or I would grab one for it.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:19 PM #11
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARGLaser View Post
What are the dimensions of the driver?
11.6mm x 20.6mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcranmer View Post
Great job RHD. Those look really nice. I've got a ton of flashlights I just got from Moh. If I can come up with cheap heatsinks these would make some nice lasers in those hosts.

I wish the switch wasn't messed up in my Coleman MAX CR2, or I would grab one for it.
Bummer isn't it? I had a Coleman switch do the exact same thing to me
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:24 PM #12
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Bummer isn't it? I had a Coleman switch do the exact same thing to me
Yep. I've come to hate coleman forward clickies. I can't find a new one to replace it and the only other Coleman CR2 I can find is on E-bay at the moment and the price is already starting to climb.
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Old 08-06-2011, 08:27 PM #13
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Hmm. So these do *not* fit inside an Aixiz module? Lamesauce. Nonetheless, I like the drop-in aspect of it....

But the question is - wouldn't the long aspect of it (Aixiz module + driver length) that makes it a bit long? Would there be a way to compact it? You know, make it shorter but make it wider at the base, or something? Just a thought.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:04 PM #14
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

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Originally Posted by Wolfman29 View Post
Hmm. So these do *not* fit inside an Aixiz module? Lamesauce. Nonetheless, I like the drop-in aspect of it....

But the question is - wouldn't the long aspect of it (Aixiz module + driver length) that makes it a bit long? Would there be a way to compact it? You know, make it shorter but make it wider at the base, or something? Just a thought.
I'm thinking it may depend on the host. These looks like they would fit in any host were you would normally have room for the entire module (back included).

I'm not certain of that though.
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Old 08-06-2011, 09:26 PM #15
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Those are awesome.

Just two questions: 1. Have you tested the drivers with 2x 10440? That current draw would be 3C discharge, I'd be afraid they would explode! 2. Couldn't you just file the driver down a bit on the sides and it would fit in a 12mm heatsink?
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:06 PM #16
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Default Re: FS: "Mosquito" All-In-One 445nm Modules - 1,760 mA - Ready to DIY with!

Hm. Well, the reason I ask is because, as far as I know, most builds don't use the whole Aixiz module, just the head. I know all of my builds use just the head of the module, and my heatsinks aren't long enough for the whole thing to fit, ya know?
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