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Old 09-15-2010, 03:10 PM #1
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Default Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

I wanted to let you know of my customer experiences with jayrob and flaminpyro. First of all, they are both very responsive to emails and very helpful in terms of helping to determine what I needed in achieve my goals (best quality build components). They both will answer questions in a useful and direct way. And if I had any concerns or special requests they were also responsive and helpful.

I am going to post a review of their SH-032 copper kits. In terms of customer service I had an issue with each seller. With jayrob, I found his kit hard to work with because of the need to screw in the heatsink retainer ring (stock) while ensuring the copper heatsink spins exactly in sync with the retainer ring. I was very very careful about this and gave it a few trial runs with no driver installed so i could get the hang of it. When i got it together, no light. I removed it, again being very careful to turn the two at the same time. What happened was there was some difference in them spinning together and there was a short that killed the flex drive. When i told jayrob about this and what a pain it was to deal with his design his reply was "its just a different design, not better or worse". in other words, i was on my own. Granted, it wasn't anything he did that caused this problem, nor did his product "break". but the point is, there was no support other than a "sorry for you loss". so after you buy from jayrob, assume you are on your own if you have any malfunctions due to the nature of his kit where the components needs to be meticulously spun together. assume you are on your own and possibly ensure all electrical connections are insulated in the event you don't turn them exactly right. jayrob will offer condolences, but there will be no offer to help with the costs associated with damaged components.

With flaminpyro, I purchased the some host kit. His kit is much easier to deal with than jayrobs because its a single copper piece that replaces the retainer ring. nothing to screw in meticulously. also there is more room in the heat sink to work with (although this means less copper which I will address in my review). In this case, everything went well and the 445 worked. However, at one point from a cold start it started flashing on and off regularly. i turned it off immediately thinking the micro boost i used was over heating. i let it sit for about 10 min and turned it on and the LD came on for 1 sec and went out. dead. I took it apart and saw no issues. I tested the driver on my dummy load and it appeared to be working. I removed the lasorb from the 445 LD, installed it on a new 12x 405 and connected it to the micro boost after dropping the current down to 500mA. It came on properly. I disconnected the LD and put it on the 445 LD I bought from flaminpyro. nothing. back on the 405. worked. conclusion: the 445 LD i bought from flaminpyro died and not from a problem with the build.

After I explained all this to flaminpyro he agreed it was the LD but refused to provide any compensation citing that if the LD was the issue, then the issue would be with casio or nichia. I explained that as a retailer his responsibility is to his customer (me). But I told him I would not tell him what to do but that he should do what he felt was the right thing to do. With that he bid me a nice day (eg. no refund or other compensation). I would have agreed to split the loss and buy another one from him at 1/2 price, or something like that but no offer was made. So again, with flaminpyro if you have a problem you will likely be on your own with it.

Just letting you know. They are both very helpful and wonderful to deal with pre-sale, but post-sale there is no love.


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650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

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488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:58 PM #2
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Well like they say, sh^t happens. Im kinda surprised to see a post about these 2 guys after reading so much on what they do for the community. Any ways I hope you find a solution.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:08 PM #3
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullinfusion View Post
Well like they say, sh^t happens. Im kinda surprised to see a post about these 2 guys after reading so much on what they do for the community. Any ways I hope you find a solution.
More details here:

Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)

There are two sides to the coin: yes jay and FP do put a lot of effort into providing these kits and things to allow us to more easily build portable laser pointers. The other side of the coin is they are running businesses and making a profit. Along with retail and profit should come customer support and this should also include a warranty, refund, exchange, etc policy. not a "sorry. have a nice day." approach. they can do what they want, and have, and so i have the same freedom which includes sharing my experiences in that regard in an objective way so as to help other like minded people make the best decisions.
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650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:37 PM #4
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
More details here:

Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)

There are two sides to the coin: yes jay and FP do put a lot of effort into providing these kits and things to allow us to more easily build portable laser pointers. The other side of the coin is they are running businesses and making a profit. Along with retail and profit should come customer support and this should also include a warranty, refund, exchange, etc policy. not a "sorry. have a nice day." approach. they can do what they want, and have, and so i have the same freedom which includes sharing my experiences in that regard in an objective way so as to help other like minded people make the best decisions.
Yeah I hear what your saying and its true. I myself would feel guilty if I sold someone a weak part, the least Id do is give some type of support and not a thanks for the money sucker "have a great day"

I see Jay offered you another driver. That was good of him. And excuse my noobness but what are drivers worth?
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:23 PM #5
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

the point of selling a "Kit" is that your providing a product that the end user can use to produce a working laser. Since it is in Kit format, you assume responsibility for it's assembly and subsequent death because of any design flaws or errors on the users end. There is no perfect build and they do require attention to detail and skill. (not saying you don't have both) I myself sell kits in the form of Kryton Barrels and even my kits have their quirks. I'm not saying that you did anything wrong, or that the kits themselves are flawed.. sometimes life just... happens. Needless to say, it's tough to loose out on parts and in our society, it's pretty common to expect that compensation is due you. However, you got the parts, and they were functional... what more can fairly be done?

Please don't think I'm jumpin on you and attacking you for your view.. we are all entitled to our views and mine just doesn't match up with yours on this.. Oh and hehe, this is in the wrong section.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:38 PM #6
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
but post-sale there is no love.
Not true. I've had a problem with one of my lasers before and I contacted Jayrob and he helped me. I can't give anymore details than that.

If you want something done you have to tell them. Don't expect to be contacted. Also being extremely busy is difficult on their end as well.

Both Jayrob and Flaminpyro aren't factories or supermen.

Like Kenom said, "Since it is in Kit format, you assume responsibility for it's assembly and subsequent death because of any design flaws or errors on the users end."
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:04 PM #7
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

plexus, you fail to see that your accusations are damaging to my reputation, and it is not warranted...

I'm speaking only of myself here. I don't want to argue for flamminpyro because your transaction with him is not my business.

But you have no ground to make negative statements towards my customer service. And you have done so on several occasions.

This is where you fail... You seem very intelligent. But why is it that you fail to see this point? I'm not sure why you felt like you had to start this whole conversation over again in another thread??

I believe I not only offered good customer service after the sale, but that I also offered you a driver for free. Even though I did not sell you a 'Hot' option kit.

Since you brought this whole thing up again in this thread, I will post my three most relative quotes from the other thread.

Because I don't like being accused of not offering customer service when it is not true. There are two sides to every story. And people should see my communication as well.

So here is it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
Actually I always try to help in any reasonable way I can, if you have questions or concerns after the sale...

But is it reasonable that I should replace your driver or your diode if the damage was caused by you? (I didn't even sell you the driver or diode) In fact, I don't sell diodes...

What I did when you told me about it, was to explain a couple of different methods of how to assemble it safely. I do feel for you...

We have all lost a driver or a diode, and it is always a bummer. But you surely cannot expect me to pay for your accident that occurred during assembly??

Even if I did the 'Hot' option. (which I did not) It was still something that happened during your assembly.

The assembly is a little tricky at first. But once you learn how to do it, there is not a problem. I give tips in my thread, as well as in my instruction sheet. There is also a special tool that I offer to help. This tool is shown near the bottom of my thread. It is a tool that can be very helpful not only for this particular kit, but also for other builds. Such as pens and stuff like that...

So in my defense, I don't feel it's fair to say I offer no support after the sale. I am a very reasonable person. But this example is not a reasonable request...





Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post

Wow this is getting crazy...

I would like to clear a couple of things up here...

You did not ask me for a refund. But if you wanted one, then that would have been fine. (before you used the kit)

Also, I did not even do a 'Hot' option on your kit. And even if I did the 'Hot' option, it would be tested. If you damage something during assembly, how can you expect somebody else to be responsible for it?

Here's the thing...

I had no idea you were so upset about this transaction??

You bought a basic kit with copper upgrades, but no hot option or anything. And I delivered exactly what you ordered. At no time did I even think you expected me to pay for your diode and/or driver?? (just common sense)

These are items that you got from somebody else. (I don't sell diodes) And during the assembly, you accidentally had damage.

It's not that I don't feel for you. It's just that it was in no way any fault of mine... So I offered my condolences, and proceeded to try and explain some methods and tips for easy assembly...

This is actually very common for a first time build. Many people kill diodes... (and drivers too)

I have killed $300 dollar diodes before. (way back when) Now that hurts!

P.S. Your picture of the driver connection shows that it is connected wrong:



Yes I read that you said you changed it before you powered it...

But this picture raises questions about your building skills. And diodes are sensitive. It is so easy to damage a diode or a driver...



Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
Not your fault, Jay. Im not blaming you. But I am annoyed that the design was so finicky and contributed to the death of the Flex Drive, that are no longer available.

I am more annoyed at Flaminpyro for selling me a faulty 445 LD, admitting that based on the evidence it was faulty, but not offering compensation suggesting I take it up with Casio or Nichia.

The point here was to build both your and his SH032 kits and do an apples to apples comparison for the benefit of the forum. So now i have a 445/1.5W and a 405/0.7W which is fine for my personal goals, but i also have $70 lost in dead electronics that was meant for the benefit of the forum (i had intended to convert one of the 445's to a 405 after I was done the testing and review and sell the extra 445).

Anyway, live and learn.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
Well I'll tell you what...

Although I agree that there could be an easier way for the assembly (with my threaded pill style) if I did some extra work in design, I still think it is fine once you get the hang of how to assemble it... (or disassemble it)

But even though I did not sell you a 'Hot' option, and I do not take responsibility for an unfortunate mistake on your part, I still would like to offer a V5 FlexDrive if you are honestly trying to give some real comparisons for the benefit of the forum as you say...

This is because I am confident that my 'threaded pill contact to host design' is very comparable (if not better), for heat transfer to the host...

I spoke to drlava on 9/1, and he initiated a new batch order for the V5 FlexDrives that very day, right after our conversation. He said that it would take about a month for the assembly of the new batch.

So hopefully we will have them in a couple of weeks. I will obviously be stocking up on them for 'Hot' option kits and so forth.

I'll get one for you and send it to you...

I can't let go one of the ones I have on hand. Because they are all spoken for. (kit orders)

I do not normally even sell bare drivers. I use them for my 'Hot' option kits. That way they are installed and tested, with current set and lead wires soldered on ready for the buyer's diode...

The one I give you, will be a brand new driver, just as I get them from drlava.

In this case I will just give you a driver for the benefit of the forum, but if you have an accident with it, I will not be sending another...
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:06 PM #8
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

@ plexus

My experience with Jayrob has been much different than what you described here. I have purchased several kits and custom heat-sinks over the past couple of years and Jay has always been extremely helpful. I take responsibility for the actual assembly/build of the Kit(s) I've purchased. Sure some kits can be more of a challenge than others, but that is incumbent of the builder, not the supplier.

On the last couple of deals I've done with Jayrob, I've exchanged numerous emails with him and found him to be most helpful, offering his vast insight and knowledge, always replying back to me in a very timely manner; Post-Sales.

I HIGHLY recommend Jayrob and his kits, pre-sales and post-sales has been tops is my experience with him.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:26 PM #9
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Man you sure like to

I remember when I was first looking at this kit of Jay's. I saw the instructions with the warning about how not to let the wires get twisted. I had several PM's with Jay where he strongly recommended that I get the tool that he sells for this and a couple other hosts that are of similar construction. I decided not to get his tool and come up with my own solution which I must say works great. It is called a DIY kit. That means I was responsible for whatever went wrong and if I had damaged my driver or diode during assembly I surely would not have thought that compensation was in order for my mistake. And on top of that Jay has offered to replace your driver that you damaged. Yet you say his customer service is bad. Do you want him to come to your house with it and finish the job himself?

I actually put together my third kit that has the same style assembly. Here is my technique. I would definitely suggest using a vice for anyone trying this technique but this worked great for me. Look how easily the head spins without binding. Also the heatsink and pill are practically locked together.

Vice



Pliers

Last edited by DTR; 09-19-2010 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:48 PM #10
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Ridiculous and unmerited to say the least to start ANOTHER thread to reiterate everything once again. The 445 LD worked initially. These things are really hard to kill and DTR himself has TRIED to blow one using more than 2A on several occasions. Generally the flashing symptom is either low batterty, incorrect wiring,(2 pictures showing TWO DIFFERENT incorrect diode hookups), battery not up to the current demand, flaky connection to power/battery itself, or the driver overheating. I have never seen posted a situation where the 445 diode flashed on and off before subsequent spontaneous death of the diode.

In Jayrob's defense builder error created the said problem period. The very sales and build thread for the SS kit FOREWARNED of the spinning situation and tips to get around it.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:10 PM #11
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

If I purchase a new halogen bulb and try to install it in the very small & fragile socket and the socket breaks apart because it twisted when I tried to make sure the halogen bulb is seated.....the retail store is going to replace and/or pay for the replacement socket that the halogen bulb went into to??

Sorry but that is News to me, and Yes I can think of a better design for that socket, but neither the retailer or the manufacture is going to pay me for a part they didn't even supply. When you decide to DIY, you also assume all risks; badgering the seller won't do you any good, just makes yourself look bad; cut your losses and mark it up to that build was just too hard for you, OR you simply made a mistake; not the seller though.

Best of luck on your next DIY project.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:50 PM #12
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Plexus, Plexus, and yet again Plexus.

Why do I think of this picture when I look at your situation?

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Old 09-18-2010, 04:47 AM #13
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

Rofl

But I built a HeNe?!!?
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:51 AM #14
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

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Originally Posted by Pontiacg5 View Post
Rofl

But I built a HeNe?!!?
Heh I got a HiNey too
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:39 AM #15
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

See post 98 here Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)
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Old 09-18-2010, 06:54 AM #16
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Default Re: Customer Service Experiences (jayrob & flaminpyro)

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FP just in case you didn't know you can get the link to the direct post if you click on the number. That way it jumps right to it.

Flaminpyro vs Jayrob SH-032 SS Build (image heavy)

I learned that by mistake actually
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