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Old 05-16-2016, 08:44 PM #1
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Default JetLasers 10X RCB

I just got my JetLasers 10X and it looks good, I have a SANWU 3X coming for my corrected 44 builds and I think I will use this beauty on my BDR-209 before I see about widening the entrance aperture, or I may correct a NUBM06 and use it as it's 6X corrected beam will fit this 5mm entrance aperture better.

I think I could widen it but may use it as it, but 1st I just have to open the box and show off a new toy, I just love new toys and this one looks nice, the adaptor fits our standard silver lens focus rings and has run out adjustment built into that black adaptor ring that can be moved to center your beam and tightened down in place.

Anyway lots more to come, here's just some pics and 1st impressions.

I tested it on a very temporary jury rigged 7875 with a G2 just to see it work.












Attached Thumbnails
JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0977.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0979.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0980.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0982.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0983.jpg  

JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0987.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0990.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0999.jpg  


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Old 05-16-2016, 08:47 PM #2
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

This is with a G2 at 14 feet and focused to 14 feet.


And here it is with the same G2 focused to 14 feet and the 10x on top zoomed tight, maybe if I backed it out the bar would come in but I bet it would be bigger than 1mm x 2.5mm if I can get all of it, may be a big round edged bar. Focused it was round.


I could not find a tap to match the threads so I used a quad polymer elastic stretch cord method of temporary attachment.


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JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0994.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany1001.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany1002.jpg   JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0998.jpg  
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:49 PM #3
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Nice, I'm anxiously waiting to see how your 3x from Podo works as i want one for my 44
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:56 PM #4
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Hi Red,
In your opinion, how far can I safely push a bdr209?
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:07 PM #5
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

I buy my BDR-209's where DTR sets them, around 800+mw I would guess, it beats the pants off my O-like 400mw 405nm so I know it's putting out the power, but I hear people try for 1w and pop them all the time.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:12 PM #6
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

I've heard the blown diode stoties, I have it set at 450ma and will keep it there. I didn't even try to go past that amount of current when I had it on my psu.
Thanks Red
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:29 PM #7
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Cool pics Red, also nice rig you got there any plans for a permanent solution?
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:44 PM #8
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Well I can see by the way that just a ndb7875 with a DTR G2 fills up the exit lens of the expander with a rectangle yet burns a round hole with some slight wings that this expander is clipping, I tried setting my G2 for infinity and the target range of 14 feet, maybe if I set it for 18 inches because 10x 18 inches would be 15 feet, still it looks to be clipping an uncorrected MM beam, a 405 would work as is, I think I want to try that.

It would clip even more with the nubm44 and G2 without fast axis correction.

But I think a nubm06 and 6x fast axis correction may let me focus most of the power.

I will have to do more testing, but next podo's 3x when it arrives.


The point is the burn should be a long rectangle if not clipping an expanding MM beam, the spot will still be a rectangle, but when it burns a square or round hole it is clipping and wasting power, that's why MM needs correction first or a relay lens expander that can produce a shrunken burning rectangle.
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Old 05-16-2016, 09:46 PM #9
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Have you tried it with bare output?
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:24 PM #10
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Hi Red,
Why don't you press a focus adapter into the 10X adapter?? Any way glad you got them can't wait to see the rest of it Pal...

Rich
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Old 05-16-2016, 10:27 PM #11
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

I coulda told you it'd clip using a g2 set to infinity and the nubm44. on mine, I have to defocus the laser so that part of the waist goes into the expander. the output of the lens is not the same as the lenses diameter, it too is cropped by the inside of the expander. the ideal power capture and focus will produce a (-) in the center of the expander output. the expander itself can be then focused to infinity, you want the line in the output lens as long as possible without clipping any of it. it's possible to go too far with the focus and you get strange output that cant be collimated properly. the expander doesnt fix the beam, it just widens it so you have more control over the dot size at a distance. it's still a rectangular beam. you knew that though
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:20 PM #12
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Yes Exactly, our MM diodes with one rapidly expanding axis cant make round or square beams with round lenses only, if set up right with big wide lenses the spot should be a tiny but long line, that's why cylindrical correction of the fast axis is needed first, but my nubm44 beam is still too wide even though it runs negative divergence until about 7 feet where it's 75% of the aperture area, then diverges positive again. The aperture beam width of a 6x corrected 44 is more like 6mm.

The nubm06 with 6x cylindrical correction is better by 33% and line width is 4.5mm at the aperture and runs negative ( converges ) to 7 feet and then expands again.


Here is a nubm06 with 6x pair, you can see the bean shrink to about 3.5mm at 7 feet or so and opens up at 12 feet and is wider than the aperture at 15 feet it's about 9mm, if this will fit in the entry hole that's 5mm wide then at 70 feet or less it should focus to a fantastic spot, but the cylindrical correction must be used first.



Without the 6X pair that beam spot would be a line 1.5 inches long at that distance of 15 feet and a nubm44 would be 2.0 inches wide. I want to feed the corrected beam into the expander.

When we say de focusing we really mean focusing up close, like 18 inch focal point, that's just trading one for the other, I want to gain energy density over distance, so I need a really big 2 foot wide expander or beam shaping of that radical axis before the expander.


So if I focus my G2 to a point at 18 inches then use the 10x expander, at 10 times that 18 inches i.e. "15 feet " I should be able to reproduce that point by expanding then refocusing it, but if I fix the beam I can reach a lot further with that tight focal point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifetime17 View Post
Hi Red,
Why don't you press a focus adapter into the 10X adapter?? Any way glad you got them can't wait to see the rest of it Pal...

Rich
I did with the 7875 above, in the pic you can see the G2 sits right there, the rubber bands just holds it all tight as I did not thread my copper plate, I just made it's hole slightly oversized, and still it is clipping even setting the G2 at a 15 foot focus. Maybe defocused to 18 inches, but I want to burn at 32 feet and 75 feet, I want to use beam shaping on the highly divergent axis before the expander to fix the beam, to use all the power and not clip it.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:42 AM #13
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

well good luck with that, i'll be watching. i dont have a set of cylindricals yet, i only use the BE. it takes away a big percentage of power unfortunately. i can see how fitting the beam into the BE with the cylindricals would be tough. waiting for someone to realize the potential of a design that incorporates both the cyindricals and a BE while having all that be removable. they'd sell a lot of units
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Old 05-17-2016, 05:49 AM #14
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

Thanks Shakenawake.

I think this expander would go well with a NDG7475 and 2x Cyl pair or maybe the next 520, something special, not the blunt instrument that the nubm44 is even when corrected with a 6x pair my corrected nubm44 beam exits at 6 to 7mm wide and is far from ideal for long range, but if the optics were twice as wide on this Jet 10x that could produce some impressive 100 foot results, especially with a 2 diode cube/wave plate combined and corrected build.



The input of the expander is only 5mm max.

I did fire a corrected 44 through it and it was a round output meaning clip city.

An expander with wider optics would be better or less gain, such as the 3x, I expected 10x would be too much for it's physical size and it is with the 44 even corrected, with a defocused G2 only I could only guess that half the power is lost at 32 feet, possibly more, I would like to see a video or a LPM read at 32 feet just to satisfy curiosity.

I am not knocking anyone's efforts, I just want to learn and get the best results as cost effectively as possible.

I could change my mind, but to defocus it enough to make it fit would severely limits range and the spot would have to be a tiny long thin bar, any square with this uncorrected diode is very clipped.

So far minimoto kobyashi's build with a loss of about 1/3 is the best I have seen, but he uses a wonderful linos with a center relay lens and dual adjustments.

If the expander was twice as wide it would work but I need a 7mm input and a 75mm output for 10x to be possible and this is 5mm in and a 36mm output lens, so even if I could get to a 4.5 mm beam with a 4x pair the output lens is still not wide enough for 10x and defocusing just shortens useful range.

I think I will save it for something special as it has many turns of adjustment threads and I think podo's 3x may be better suited to my task, but I could change my mind.

This Jet expander works wonderfully with my 532's and 405's and is capable of a clean output when properly aligned but it likes a tight low divergent input beam.

Podo's 3X looks like a wider input and at 3X should fit the job better and I do not want to backtrack or defocus anyway, I just need a wider expander.

It's sweet with the BDR-209 and my 532's.




READ THESE BELOW AND SEE HOW WE NEED TO DO IT RIGHT, IT CAN BE DONE.

6.5W -> 4.5W 450nm Cypreus IIIb reloaded with adapted 355nm Linos Beam Expander

PLEASE READ BELOW, THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY! Beam correction then expansion to gain range to a desired focal point, or correction then possibly a telescopic reduction for quick no adjustment medium range work.

A CDBEAM 777 great project was stopped .. I need suggestions please!
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JetLasers 10X RCB-sany0992.jpg  
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Old 05-17-2016, 06:27 AM #15
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

I'm happy enough that it makes the nubm44 go from ribbon in the sky to something more resembling a laser beam. it does really well on my 520 PL-E pro, I've no doubt it stays visible for miles. i have to defocus the 520 to fit the beam in too. really, only single modes stand a chance of making it through at infinity. honestly though it doesnt seem to make a difference to me to focus with the expander using a defocused beam as far as divergence is concerned. you do want to fit the beam in as wide as possible while still not clipping. i think the focal point might be enough to damage the glass at these powers, I know it can crack brown glass like a beer bottle.

IIRC my nubm44 with dtr g2 did 6.8ish W when first turned on, with the BE also it lost a bit over a Watt. not home now or I'd measure it. that's with minimal clipping. as long as there is no clipping the maximum amount of power is getting through. I might rather have a cylindrically corrected beam with no BE than the other way around though, if I could see them together. I'm guessing those cylindricals dont sap much power

I don't have any of podo's g7s. wonder how they'd do in combo. dont they have too short of lens barrels to fit a focus adapter? could the lens be put in a longer barrel?
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Last edited by Shakenawake; 05-17-2016 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:29 AM #16
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Default Re: JetLasers 10X RCB

I understand it works, but at what distance can you produce what size spot?

My cylindrical pairs fix that sky fan too, on one axis its a nice line on the other a little wider with a sweet spot in the 7-12 foot range and it terminates in the sky looking like a solid line with the exception of that early sweet spot.

Now if that can be fed into a wide enough expander then I will be trading a wider base for a tighter finish, but if defocused the math means less power at longer ranges, you can get the power up close, but when focused at 100 feet your 10x is multiplying an initial focal length.

If my G2 is focused at 15 feet and corrected with a 6x pair and your G2 is focused at 18 inches then at 32 feet you have gone 20 times the original focal length with a 10x multiplier and I have only gone 2 x the original focal length with a 10x multiplier.

Yes we both get near the same power up close, you will get more without my 5% cyl pair loss, but at 32 feet your spot will be clipped. Yes it looks good, but it has to be clipped more the further it goes, you can't have a rapidly diverging axis make the same shape with round only lenses, it has to get longer in relation to it's width or get clipped.

The nubm44 as other MM diodes have a very aggressive divergence on the fast axis and this means any un corrected longer range spot has to be a tiny but a long thin line, otherwise it is clipped.

I am trying to burn across my yard at 75 feet, and defocusing a G2 into the 10x I know will clip it, I can see it in lifetime17's pic, the spot is too square, even my 6x cyl on the aggressive axis makes more of a line at 32 feet, but I bet more watts are there at 32 feet....up close defocusing is fine, but the lens width will determine when it has to start clipping because with round only lenses that aggressive axis will continue to grow in relation to the bar height, or get clipped, so you see power up close but it gets clipped over distance, I want to eliminate the clipping.

I am not trying to be a jerk, I just want to make results and inspire understanding, my own included.

These should not be this square unless they are clipped, the line should be much longer as the round lenses in the 10 expander act on both axis but one diverges much faster and the further you go, if not clipped, the longer it must be....unless beam shaping is used as well as the round lens expander.

EDIT: I suppose it's not really square, a nubm44 with a G2 focused at 3.2 feet could look like this, so with a 10x it's possible, as I see some of the rectangle. The G2 must be focused at about 3.5 feet prior to the 10x expander, if I could get my beam in to the 10x I should be able to get a spot 1/6 that length, otherwise the same, for 600% the energy density and ignition as I can ignite the shirt at 8 feet. Another question is how well can this expander take this? I like to run for 5 minutes.




-----------------------------------EDIT---------------------------------------

Ok I set my G2 on my 7875 to 3.5 feet focus and strapped on the 10x and at 14 feet I got a 1mm by 2.5mm spot that burned instantly but no open flame, still a 3 element usually takes about 2 seconds to burn its 5/16 inch line at 14 feet, this was tighter and faster but with those MM wings.

The expander has enough range of adjustment that even set at 15 feet focus it still burned about the same size hole.

I think correction then the expander will be the best but testing will show, also with correction first the G2 is fixed focus where as the expander only works the best if you adjust both the G2 and the expander for each range, I like just point and click, this is another reason to combine 2 diodes and use the 6x and maybe a telescopic reduction, for medium range work it would give no adjustment needed fixed focus use.

More testing to be done, but the ultimate answer is simply more power to start followed by beam shaping and an expander or telescopic reduction, unless we start getting some high power single mode diodes.

So in a nutshell you can focus your G2 to 2.5 feet and use the 10x expander to reproduce that spot in a wide to point funnel shaped beam at 25 feet.

Other distances will require more BE adjustment and possibly clipping, so its a 2 lens adjustment past a certain range.

I like the beam that works from aperture to distance, but there are limits and compromises, but understanding is the first step and I think the combination approach will yield the best results, but this expander is not wide enough for the 6x corrected nubm44, maybe the 6x corrected nubm06.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 05-17-2016 at 09:18 AM.
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