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Old 08-10-2010, 07:31 PM #1
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Default Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

Hello

Iím an undergrad that recently became a grad student in physics. I was asked by a professor to put together a laser system that projects images (in this case the lab name). He said that systems like this is easily purchased and said I had 200 USD. My first problem is that my undergraduate was chemistry. After researching the systems I found that basic scanner systems cost around ~150 USD.

I went to Lasershow Parts and got directed to this by customer service:
SCANLSP-20 20k Scanner Laser Show Galvo for DPSS Argon - eBay Industrial Lasers, Lighting Lasers, Industrial Supply MRO, Business Industrial. (end time 03-Sep-10 20:34:06 AEST)

Now I was told along with the $200 I had a HeNe laser and a power supply available to me. The HeNe does not have the ability to be rapidly switched on and off (as one would have to have in drawing separate objects). I told him this. He insisted that no system ever did this (as it would damage the laser). I am aware this is not true. He flatly said I needed a mechanical shutter. I did not push him on the issue due to his demeanor.

I am aware this will cost more than $200. I need to know if I have all the supplies and thus costs correct.

Here is where Iím at:
Tutorials I know of:
Sound card DAC tutorial
Need some help to put together a laser scanner
Scanner opinions
FS: almost everything to build a scanner :(
The dmx card, first run


Materials:
20 Kpps scanner DMX
SCANLSP-20 20k Scanner Laser Show Galvo for DPSS Argon - eBay Industrial Lasers, Lighting Lasers, Industrial Supply MRO, Business Industrial. (end time 03-Sep-10 20:34:06 AEST)

Servo for shutter:
Iím not sure if this is adequate, but my idea was using a servo to cut off the laser beam whenI needed it off. I tried finding a camera shutter but it would look like I would have to disassemble a camera to get one.

Control Board for servo:
Lasershow Parts - Single channel DMX512 RC-Servo driver

Futabaģ S9070 Programmable Mini BB Servo
It appears that all their servos have a hookup to receive commands so I would either just wire into where receive or add a radio transmitter.

USB to DMX
ENTTEC - DMX USB PRO
ENTTEC - DMX USB ASSEMBLED AND TESTED IN METAL HOUSING

Pangolin Quick show demo

Here are my questions:
Is this all I need?
Is the servo fast enough?
Should I just go DAC? I have no idea what this means really but all the tutorials I have found use DAC. The DMX ones are very vague. I have heard bad things from forums that DMX is simpler and does not have the effectiveness as DAC.
Is the wiring as simple as I think it will be?


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Old 08-10-2010, 09:31 PM #2
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

I hope one of the laser scanner/projector builders here at LPF chimes in on this one.

If you don't have any luck here the @$$holes over at PL (photonlexicon) may help you.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:06 PM #3
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

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If you don't have any luck here the @$$holes over at PL (photonlexicon) may help you.
grow up, why are people on pl arseholes
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:54 PM #4
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

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grow up, why are people on pl arseholes
Because (I have noticed that) they talk about LPF like it's a "kid's forum".
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:54 AM #5
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

Well, according to this thread, that may not be far from the truth. In any case, you wouldn't be helping matters in reciprocating.

A Spirograph is an image, and generally doesn't cost much to build.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:11 AM #6
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

He wants something to project the lab's name, so a spiro won't cut it.

Two things:

1. If you switch the HeNe on and off very fast you WILL break it.
2. A mechanical shutter isn't fast enough.

You'd want something along the lines of a PCAOM cell to modulate the output of a HeNe.

DPSS and diode lasers can be switched on and off very rapidly through TTL- this doesn't power everything down, only the lasing elements.

It just might be easier to buy a cheap laser module that supports TTL modulation. It wouldn't be worth buying a PCAOM cell just to keep the professor happy.

DMX can only be used to control inbuilt patterns if the galvo set has a microcontroller. You will need a DAC if you intend on displaying custom images.

Also, here's a link to the sound card DAC tutorial:

Sound card DAC tutorial

P.S. If he knows these systems are readily available for less than the total cost of parts, why does he want you to build one? And why did he make you (a chem undergrad) do it instead of someone else?

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Old 08-11-2010, 08:37 AM #7
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash View Post
If you don't have any luck here the @$$holes over at PL (photonlexicon) may help you.
LOL. Why does this forum so often turn south with comments such as this one? Totally unnecessary.

Andy, this is just one persons opinion, something I feel he should have kept with himself.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:08 AM #8
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnar View Post
LOL. Why does this forum so often turn south with comments such as this one? Totally unnecessary.

Andy, this is just one persons opinion, something I feel he should have kept with himself.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.
THIS is why.

WTF... wicked laser
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:15 AM #9
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Talking Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

@ DNAR: i think, basically, cause there's some sort of "rivality" between forums that discuss about similar arguments ..... but, one thing is right, a forum that is "too much restrictive" , or "too much specialized", is not a good place, imho ..... mean, how do you feel if LPF start to fight against anyone that don't post threads exclusively related to laser pointers, just cause the name of the forum is "LASERPOINTERforums" ? ..... :P

I don't know if i still have an account on PL, i had one a lot of time ago, but probably posted maybe 10 times in a year, then left, so probably it's deleted now (anyway, i don't remember the name/pw, so is the same) ..... there was nothing wrong in the forum itself, i was just "not feeling good" about some of the users, and about some of the posts threads and managements ..... nothing specific, i cannot point a finger and say "this, this and this", just a general feeling (sorry, i don't know how to explain this better)

Also, i don't understand this thing about ages ..... what have to do age, with experience and knowledges and ability ? ..... i'm 48, does this mean that i have automatically to be more expert of any 18 year users about anything they say ? (can be a funny thing, if true ..... just imagine, a 30 yo professional programmer join the forum, and i instantly become a better programmer, just cause i'm older ..... pity that it don't work in this way, huh ? )


EDIT: @ gonianbl00d: ROTFL ..... i followed the link to ebay ..... 3850$ offers for a "cease and desist" letter ? ..... WTF ? ..... i know that collectors are crazy, but this looks absurd .....
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:17 AM #10
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

All I can say is this, I have learn't a lot from reading threads on PL and the people have been ok with me. Yes it is very specialised, I like that! I like this forum too.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:32 AM #11
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash View Post
Because (I have noticed that) they talk about LPF like it's a "kid's forum".
really, maybe they have good reason to i dont know?
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:39 PM #12
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

lol. i see this as a more social and discussive forum whereas PL is a group of (for the most part) older (at least at mind) and BUSINESS oriented individuals. although it is a hobby for all of them, alot of them also make good money with their lasers, instead of pointing/burning.

i see it as a business forum, in more ways than one. discussions go somewhere there, and contain massive amounts of valid information released by some very intelligent individuals.

anyways to the original poster, i will have a cheap TTL controlled module available by the end of the week. 532nm, i think it -may- be able to accept analog as well, ill find out once i pull it out of this box, that way you could use even the cheapest function generator to control the output of the laser, or wire it in to the 25 pin connector that u will be connecting to ur dac (after a correction amp ofc. 300Evil over on photon lexicon sells these DAC kits for cheep)

also, kiyoukan, a member here has a economy set of galvos i was considering purchasing, but i dont get paid til friday, so if for some cuhrazy reason you pick those up, i wont be mad.

they will be able to scan the image your prof wants, and i doubt you will find em -anywhere- cheaper
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:28 PM #13
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

WOW talk about off-topic.. and I thought I was the off-topic king.

Both forums have their place, if people on PL piss you off either ignore 'em or tell them to get bent like I do. The fact remains that PL is full of good info specifically pertaining to laser shows, along with a smorgasbord of info and tips for working with laser sources themselves.. The ego level on PL is quite high which can be extremely annoying, but as long as people have knowledge they are willing to share that's all that really matters at the end of the day. What those folks think about LPF matters little in terms of the usefulness of the forum, especially since it's all just a bunch of talk. PL members routinely come here for information just as frequently as LPF members go there.. the only difference is that some PL members would soak up info from and then proceed to talk trash on LPF and it's members while LPF members have mostly good things to say about PL after utilizing it as resource. The real bottom line is that strictly as resources both LPF and PL have their place. LPFs SNR is a bit off right now due to all the n00bs that arrived looking for info and conversation about the 445nm diodes and WL Arctics, but I suspect that as always with time the people who have nothing constructive to add will be weeded from those who do and things will even out a bit....... hopefully.

The statement that PL members are assholes to LPF members is not entirely undeserved, though. Hopefully with time the members there with ego issues will become a bit more tolerant, but even if they don't it's OK. You don't even need to be a member of a forum to lurk and benefit, much less talk to the members.. of course whatever you do don't use me as an example of how to make friends and influence people on PL..LOL.. I'm kind of a unique case over there because I don't mind stepping on the toes of the overly-egotistical once in awhile..
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Old 08-12-2010, 05:13 PM #14
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

I just realized that will all the off-topic chatter no one answered this guy's questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalcogenide View Post
Hello

I’m an undergrad that recently became a grad student in physics. I was asked by a professor to put together a laser system that projects images (in this case the lab name). He said that systems like this is easily purchased and said I had 200 USD. My first problem is that my undergraduate was chemistry. After researching the systems I found that basic scanner systems cost around ~150 USD.

I went to Lasershow Parts and got directed to this by customer service:
SCANLSP-20 20k Scanner Laser Show Galvo for DPSS Argon - eBay Industrial Lasers, Lighting Lasers, Industrial Supply MRO, Business Industrial. (end time 03-Sep-10 20:34:06 AEST)

Now I was told along with the $200 I had a HeNe laser and a power supply available to me. The HeNe does not have the ability to be rapidly switched on and off (as one would have to have in drawing separate objects). I told him this. He insisted that no system ever did this (as it would damage the laser). I am aware this is not true. He flatly said I needed a mechanical shutter. I did not push him on the issue due to his demeanor.

A HeNe does require a mechanical or electro-optical shutter, but you could use a cheap DPSS with built-in blanking and not need to worry about it. You can get such a laser here: AixiZ

I am aware this will cost more than $200. I need to know if I have all the supplies and thus costs correct.

Here is where I’m at:
Tutorials I know of:
Sound card DAC tutorial
Need some help to put together a laser scanner
Scanner opinions
FS: almost everything to build a scanner :(
The dmx card, first run


Materials:
20 Kpps scanner DMX
SCANLSP-20 20k Scanner Laser Show Galvo for DPSS Argon - eBay Industrial Lasers, Lighting Lasers, Industrial Supply MRO, Business Industrial. (end time 03-Sep-10 20:34:06 AEST)

If you want to save a little cash you could use these galvos (which are actually identical to the LSP set you liked to, spacelas is the manufacturer):
Galvo(scanning) system ILDA20K max35k for Laser systems - eBay (item 290461104822 end time Sep-04-10 00:17:17 PDT)

Servo for shutter:
I’m not sure if this is adequate, but my idea was using a servo to cut off the laser beam whenI needed it off. I tried finding a camera shutter but it would look like I would have to disassemble a camera to get one.

Control Board for servo:
Lasershow Parts - Single channel DMX512 RC-Servo driver

Futabaģ S9070 Programmable Mini BB Servo
It appears that all their servos have a hookup to receive commands so I would either just wire into where receive or add a radio transmitter.

If you use a laser like I linked to above you won't need a shutter for classroom use.

USB to DMX
ENTTEC - DMX USB PRO
ENTTEC - DMX USB ASSEMBLED AND TESTED IN METAL HOUSING

Pangolin Quick show demo

Here are my questions:
Is this all I need?
Is the servo fast enough?
Should I just go DAC? I have no idea what this means really but all the tutorials I have found use DAC. The DMX ones are very vague. I have heard bad things from forums that DMX is simpler and does not have the effectiveness as DAC.
Is the wiring as simple as I think it will be?
Stay away from DMX, as you'll be unable to do a custom logo with a DMX board controlling the laser. You'll need direct PC control. As long as you read the soundcard DAC tutorial carefully and search photonlexicon.com for soundcard DAC info you should be able to make a DAC for about $100-120. There is free and cheap software available that supports a soundcard DAC, links are in the tutorial. Doing a custom logo will be a challenge, but there are people on photonlexicon that will do it for you if you ask and supply an image. For a much easier to use professionally built solution, an FB3 from Pangolin would be the best option, but it costs $595.
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http://nqlasers.com/scannerreference...itle=Main_Page

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Last edited by ElektroFreak; 08-12-2010 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:56 PM #15
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Default Re: Through a scanner incoherently: Newbie Scanner project and questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash View Post
@$$holes over at PL
lol <3

Quote:
Originally Posted by goninanbl00d View Post
You'd want something along the lines of a PCAOM cell to modulate the output of a HeNe.
actually an AOM would be good enough, PCAOM's let you pick more than one frequency of light to modulate (for like an Ar/Kr etc) an AOM is single line...

if you want to play with a cheap one you can get one of these

Meredith Instruments : Dual Channel Acousto-Optic Modulator [P-AOM-1] - $29.00 - The source for laser surplus

they are pulls from Xerox machines and were ment to modulate HeNe's so they would be perfect for this application

PCAOM's are still big $$$ ($1000~$1500)
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