Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner - Laser Pointer Forums

SilentBoB · 11-13-2009, 10:59 PM

Hey there,

I'm about to enter the market looking for a Green only Laser Scanner for use at outdoor dance parties, with a budget of around $1000-$1200 Australian, thats around $1100 US for the full build.

My knowledge on lasers is going to be rediculously limited comapred to some of the users on this forum, so I'm looking for 'Dummies' advice.

MY NEEDS ARE:
Reliability and build quality for outdoor use and hanging on trusses
DMX Controllable
Sound Active option when not running under DMX
Green only Laser
Wide scan angle

I suppose the advice I'm looking for is: What should my basic expectations be in this price bracket with regards MW of the laser, KPPS, scan angle, # DMX slots etc?????

How much variance is there in quality of sound active modules for a device of this type? What should I expect?

Other things I might not be aware of but should know?

I've exchanged a few emails with a guy from this forum with regards having something custom built and he assures me that $ for $ I'll get a better unit by having it built by an enthusiast than going for a commercial unit.
I'm sure this depends on the individual, their experience and skills, but would others on here assume the same?

Any advice on the best way to ascertain someones credibility when comissioning a unit like this?
Anyone I should contact in Australia who might want to take on a project like this?
Although I'd like to offer first right of refusal to the person I've already been in contact with, as he's already helped in terms of where to start with this project.

And lastly, any suggestions in the above price bracket for a commercial unit fitting my needs criteria, if it turns out I feel more comfortable going down that path.

Basically, I'm just looking for a good quality, reliable Laser Scanning unit for use at outdoor dance parties.

Any help would be much appreciated.

nikokapo · 11-13-2009, 11:34 PM

Things or diachi could do it AFAIK, try contacting them

KGB_Productions · 11-14-2009, 12:00 AM

For $1,352 you could get a >500mw RGB with 30k scanners and analog modulation.
Hongkong Laserking Tec Co.,Limited.

Red laser 350mW@650nm
Green laser 150mW @532nm
Blue laser 70Mw@473nm
ANALOGUE LASERS

Just throwing this out there for you.

SilentBoB · 11-14-2009, 12:44 AM

Hey there, thanks for that..... RE: the RGB

Thing is, I have no interest at all in a Red laser.
So I'd be wasting $ on a laser module that I'd always have switched off through DMX.

I'd rather have the most powerful / versatile Green laser fixture possible for the price.

Some time in the future, I'll be interested in a blue laser, but I'd thought it would be better to have it built into a seperate fixture so that I mount and direct them seperately and increase my layout options.
Someone let me know if this isn't the case.

Another question is, how will DMX controller software recognise a custom built Laser Scanner?
Will it be as simple as assigning the Scanner a DMX address, seeing as the unit will not conform to any unit in a harware/software profile database?

Thanks again

KGB_Productions · 11-14-2009, 02:49 AM

One thing about a RGB scanner is that with analog modulation you can achieve over 16 million colors, not just red, green, or blue like you would have with a single color laser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentBoB

Another question is, how will DMX controller software recognise a custom built Laser Scanner?
Will it be as simple as assigning the Scanner a DMX address, seeing as the unit will not conform to any unit in a harware/software profile database?

Thanks again

What software do you use? I use lightjockey and is was easy to make a custom fixture profile.

andy_con · 11-14-2009, 06:42 AM

a 500mw projector outside is pointless, it would be like shining a little 3v led into the sky.

for any kina of effect outside you want a min of 1watt of green

SilentBoB · 11-14-2009, 08:24 AM

min of 1watt
Even with hazing????

I presume what your saying 500mw Green is about what I should expect in the price range?

All else being equal, background light etc......what makes projecting outside any different to indoors? So long as the hazing creates the appropriate medium for it to cut through?

There's always a limit to what you can expect in terms of output for the dollars your willing, or capable, of spending...... I suppose if I had 50 grand to play with on a single fixture I could give us both an 'erection', but that just isn't the case.

Thanks for the input though, is it the general opinion here that I'm wasting my time if I don't outlay for a min 1watt Green laser???

I'm not talking about setting forests on fire here........ but I want something that's going to do the job.
I would have thought good hazing would be as important as the laser itself, correct me if I'm wrong?

and in terms of laser lighting fixtures specifically, remember I'm learning some of the terminology and go..... so be gentle... :P

ElektroFreak · 11-14-2009, 04:27 PM

I've seen an outdoor show done with a full-color RGB system as described above. Every time the breeze would kick up, all the hase would disappear and as long as there was a breeze, any new haze just blew away too. While you could see the laser, it wasn't too bright.

The same system indoors with a bunch of fog, on the other hand, works great in smaller rooms up to about 2500-3000 max.. I have one and I love it, although ultimately I'll be tearing mine down and rebuilding it in a different case with better optics and mounts..

As andy said above, a minimum of 1W green for outdoor (more if you can afford it).. the same is true of full-color lasers. Always buy the absolute maximum power you can afford.

The good news is that if you are on a budget, a green scanner is quite simple to build yourself compared to a full-color RGB system.

To determine how much a system like this will cost, look at the pricing at www.lasershowparts.com and www.ctlasers.com. Look at CNI and Laser-wave brand laser modules.

Look for scanner (or galvo) sets. (google works well for this)..

Check out this thread here on this site:
new to scanners

and while there is a bunch of great info here in the laser whow section, if you really want the absolute best advice about this from the pros, post this same question in the help section on photonlexicon.com.

carmangary · 11-15-2009, 11:12 AM

I think that getting a forum member to build you a laser projector is a terrible idea.

wolfhunter9154 · 11-15-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmangary

I think that if you getting a forum member to build you a laser projector is a terrible idea.

Why do you say that?

carmangary · 11-15-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhunter9154

Why do you say that?

From experience building my own scanner and from hearing the stories and seeing pictures of the scanners people are building on here. Best case is that you end up with some frankenstein hackjob. Worst case you end up with your money taken from you and you receive nothing at all or a box full of crappy parts shoehorned together. What about a warranty or customer service? You won't get that because whoever builds your projector is not going to agree to redo the work or replace parts at no cost. Fabricating a projector case is not easy. It isn't like building a computer where you can just buy a case and the parts and they all fit in there perfectly. With a projector you have to do a lot of work to get things aligned and to fit without just wasting space. Also, there is air filtration and heat removal to think about. Most builders here just slap some heat sink and some fans in there and call it a day without having a clue if it is adequate or if it is huge waste of space. Or they just let dirty air blow on the optics.

If you do decice to get someone on here to build your projector then make sure you work out the details. Get pictures of others they have built as well as referals. Sign a contract of some sort. In other words, cover your butt so that when 5 months have gone by and they are still working on your projector you can get your money back.

PS - Read the LaserBen thread on PL if you don't believe me. And who is LaserBen? He is just a kid - a high schooler... but since he posted a lot of the forum and acted like he knew what he was doing people believed him. Would you really pay $1000 to a highschooler to build a projector? I know that even in this thread, one of the recommended people is still in grade school.

ElektroFreak · 11-15-2009, 05:24 PM

^I would generally agree with carmangary on this. There are only two people I would recommend if you're looking to have a scanner built for yourself, and neither one of them are here on LPF. Go to photonlexicon.com and speak with "gottaluvlasers" or "daedal" (Marc (gottaluvlasers) is the best that I know, with Daedal being second.)..

Marc can supply you with a CDRH certified projector that will allow you to get a variance from the FDA so that you can do professional shows legally. These projectors will be first-rate quality, but will cost a bit.

The next best idea is to build it yourself or buy from a company like Kvant.

Both of the guys I just mentioned are top folks with a history of doing good business.

Things · 11-16-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElektroFreak

^I would generally agree with carmangary on this. There are only two people I would recommend if you're looking to have a scanner built for yourself, and neither one of them are here on LPF. Go to photonlexicon.com and speak with "gottaluvlasers" or "daedal" (Marc (gottaluvlasers) is the best that I know, with Daedal being second.)..

Marc can supply you with a CDRH certified projector that will allow you to get a variance from the FDA so that you can do professional shows legally. These projectors will be first-rate quality, but will cost a bit.

The next best idea is to build it yourself or buy from a company like Kvant.

Both of the guys I just mentioned are top folks with a history of doing good business.

If he is using Australian currency, chances are he is in Australia, so he doesn't need any of the variance stuff, we have no laws here regarding laser scanners (yet).

Whereabouts in AU are you? I could help you out with components if needed (Check my sig).

As for your requirements, a FB3 would be the ideal DAC, as it has DMX control, the only problem would be audio control.

Almost any scanners are capable of a fairly wide angle, as long as you run them a fair bit slower than they are rated for at 8 degree's (ILDA standard).

The FB3 can be had from pangolin.com, as DAC's arent usually part of a pre-built package.

If you are willing to do a little work, you can probably get a nice little projector going for $1200AUD.

I would offer to build one for you, but I am busy for the next few weeks and don't have any enclosures on hand. After shipping, it would probably be cheaper to make it yourself

ElektroFreak · 11-16-2009, 05:11 AM

Missed the type of currency. While you are right that if the OP is in Australia he won't need a CDRH certified projector legally, the designs and safety features in such a machine are very good, second to none in fact. gottaluvlasers wouldn't be a good choice, though, because of distance. SilentBob would want a manufacturer closer to him, since shipping a projector can be very costly. All signs are pointing to a DIY rig for optimum cost-effectiveness.

dave_LSP · 12-07-2009, 06:49 AM

You are going to be extremely disappointed with anything less than 5w outdoor!

I did a show outside with just on 2w of green on the weekend, and more power would have really helped..

Forget about using a hazer outdoors! Just not enough output.. Think a really big smoke machine and a industrial fan to spread the smoke where you want it.

Shoot me a PM SilentBoB, especially if you want good hire deals in Australia.... Green up to 55w

11-13-2009, 10:59 PM	#1
SilentBoB Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner Hey there, I'm about to enter the market looking for a Green only Laser Scanner for use at outdoor dance parties, with a budget of around $1000-$1200 Australian, thats around $1100 US for the full build. My knowledge on lasers is going to be rediculously limited comapred to some of the users on this forum, so I'm looking for 'Dummies' advice. MY NEEDS ARE: Reliability and build quality for outdoor use and hanging on trusses DMX Controllable Sound Active option when not running under DMX Green only Laser Wide scan angle I suppose the advice I'm looking for is: What should my basic expectations be in this price bracket with regards MW of the laser, KPPS, scan angle, # DMX slots etc????? How much variance is there in quality of sound active modules for a device of this type? What should I expect? Other things I might not be aware of but should know? I've exchanged a few emails with a guy from this forum with regards having something custom built and he assures me that $ for $ I'll get a better unit by having it built by an enthusiast than going for a commercial unit. I'm sure this depends on the individual, their experience and skills, but would others on here assume the same? Any advice on the best way to ascertain someones credibility when comissioning a unit like this? Anyone I should contact in Australia who might want to take on a project like this? Although I'd like to offer first right of refusal to the person I've already been in contact with, as he's already helped in terms of where to start with this project. And lastly, any suggestions in the above price bracket for a commercial unit fitting my needs criteria, if it turns out I feel more comfortable going down that path. Basically, I'm just looking for a good quality, reliable Laser Scanning unit for use at outdoor dance parties. Any help would be much appreciated.

11-13-2009, 11:34 PM	#2
nikokapo Class 4 Laser Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Argentina Posts: 6,059 Rep Power: 238	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner Things or diachi could do it AFAIK, try contacting them __________________ I like cereal. Review Compilation - All Reviews In One Thread! Diodes Compilation - All Diodes Data In One Thread! Driver Compilation - All Drivers Data In One Thread!

11-14-2009, 12:00 AM	#3
KGB_Productions Class 2M Laser Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Orleans Posts: 621 Rep Power: 8	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner For $1,352 you could get a >500mw RGB with 30k scanners and analog modulation. Hongkong Laserking Tec Co.,Limited. Red laser 350mW@650nm Green laser 150mW @532nm Blue laser 70Mw@473nm ANALOGUE LASERS Just throwing this out there for you. __________________ My Lasers 310mw RGVP Step Scanner 500mw RGV 20k 1.45W RGB DT40 Pro WIDES SP20 Spaghetti Pangolin QuickShow 300mw 473nm 1000mw 445nm 200mw 405nm 400mw 635nm 300mw 660nm 200mw 532nm 820mw 532nm 750mw 445nm160mw 405nm ~ (2x)150mw 405nm 200mw DX Green ~ 15mw Pulsed Green ~ 30mw Kaleidoscope Green * 200mw DX Red * Searching for: SP 168 Argon/Krypton white light 4.5W

11-14-2009, 12:44 AM	#4
SilentBoB Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner Hey there, thanks for that..... RE: the RGB Thing is, I have no interest at all in a Red laser. So I'd be wasting $ on a laser module that I'd always have switched off through DMX. I'd rather have the most powerful / versatile Green laser fixture possible for the price. Some time in the future, I'll be interested in a blue laser, but I'd thought it would be better to have it built into a seperate fixture so that I mount and direct them seperately and increase my layout options. Someone let me know if this isn't the case. Another question is, how will DMX controller software recognise a custom built Laser Scanner? Will it be as simple as assigning the Scanner a DMX address, seeing as the unit will not conform to any unit in a harware/software profile database? Thanks again Last edited by SilentBoB; 11-14-2009 at 12:46 AM.

11-14-2009, 06:42 AM	#6
andy_con Class 3B Laser Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,922 Rep Power: 145	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner a 500mw projector outside is pointless, it would be like shining a little 3v led into the sky. for any kina of effect outside you want a min of 1watt of green __________________

11-14-2009, 08:24 AM	#7
SilentBoB Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3 Rep Power: 0	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner min of 1watt Even with hazing???? I presume what your saying 500mw Green is about what I should expect in the price range? All else being equal, background light etc......what makes projecting outside any different to indoors? So long as the hazing creates the appropriate medium for it to cut through? There's always a limit to what you can expect in terms of output for the dollars your willing, or capable, of spending...... I suppose if I had 50 grand to play with on a single fixture I could give us both an 'erection', but that just isn't the case. Thanks for the input though, is it the general opinion here that I'm wasting my time if I don't outlay for a min 1watt Green laser??? I'm not talking about setting forests on fire here........ but I want something that's going to do the job. I would have thought good hazing would be as important as the laser itself, correct me if I'm wrong? and in terms of laser lighting fixtures specifically, remember I'm learning some of the terminology and go..... so be gentle... :P

11-14-2009, 04:27 PM	#8
ElektroFreak Class 3B Laser Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,081 Rep Power: 212	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner I've seen an outdoor show done with a full-color RGB system as described above. Every time the breeze would kick up, all the hase would disappear and as long as there was a breeze, any new haze just blew away too. While you could see the laser, it wasn't too bright. The same system indoors with a bunch of fog, on the other hand, works great in smaller rooms up to about 2500-3000 max.. I have one and I love it, although ultimately I'll be tearing mine down and rebuilding it in a different case with better optics and mounts.. As andy said above, a minimum of 1W green for outdoor (more if you can afford it).. the same is true of full-color lasers. Always buy the absolute maximum power you can afford. The good news is that if you are on a budget, a green scanner is quite simple to build yourself compared to a full-color RGB system. To determine how much a system like this will cost, look at the pricing at www.lasershowparts.com and www.ctlasers.com. Look at CNI and Laser-wave brand laser modules. Look for scanner (or galvo) sets. (google works well for this).. Check out this thread here on this site: new to scanners and while there is a bunch of great info here in the laser whow section, if you really want the absolute best advice about this from the pros, post this same question in the help section on photonlexicon.com. __________________ Laser Resources (for n00bs and veterans alike!) Sam's Laser FAQ (The Laser Bible) http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laserfaq.htm RP Photonics Encyclopedia of Laser Physics and Technology http://www.rp-photonics.com/encyclopedia.html 01001100 01100001 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110111 01100101 01110011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100001

11-15-2009, 11:12 AM	#9
carmangary Class 1M Laser Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 244 Rep Power: 4	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner I think that getting a forum member to build you a laser projector is a terrible idea. Last edited by carmangary; 11-15-2009 at 07:43 PM.

11-15-2009, 05:24 PM	#12
ElektroFreak Class 3B Laser Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,081 Rep Power: 212	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner ^I would generally agree with carmangary on this. There are only two people I would recommend if you're looking to have a scanner built for yourself, and neither one of them are here on LPF. Go to photonlexicon.com and speak with "gottaluvlasers" or "daedal" (Marc (gottaluvlasers) is the best that I know, with Daedal being second.).. Marc can supply you with a CDRH certified projector that will allow you to get a variance from the FDA so that you can do professional shows legally. These projectors will be first-rate quality, but will cost a bit. The next best idea is to build it yourself or buy from a company like Kvant. Both of the guys I just mentioned are top folks with a history of doing good business. __________________ Laser Resources (for n00bs and veterans alike!) Sam's Laser FAQ (The Laser Bible) http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laserfaq.htm RP Photonics Encyclopedia of Laser Physics and Technology http://www.rp-photonics.com/encyclopedia.html 01001100 01100001 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110111 01100101 01110011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100001

11-16-2009, 05:11 AM	#14
ElektroFreak Class 3B Laser Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,081 Rep Power: 212	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner Missed the type of currency. While you are right that if the OP is in Australia he won't need a CDRH certified projector legally, the designs and safety features in such a machine are very good, second to none in fact. gottaluvlasers wouldn't be a good choice, though, because of distance. SilentBob would want a manufacturer closer to him, since shipping a projector can be very costly. All signs are pointing to a DIY rig for optimum cost-effectiveness. __________________ Laser Resources (for n00bs and veterans alike!) Sam's Laser FAQ (The Laser Bible) http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laserfaq.htm RP Photonics Encyclopedia of Laser Physics and Technology http://www.rp-photonics.com/encyclopedia.html 01001100 01100001 01110011 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110111 01100101 01110011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100001

12-07-2009, 06:49 AM	#15
dave_LSP Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 22 Rep Power: 0	Re: Advice / custom built $1000-1200 Laser Scanner You are going to be extremely disappointed with anything less than 5w outdoor! I did a show outside with just on 2w of green on the weekend, and more power would have really helped.. Forget about using a hazer outdoors! Just not enough output.. Think a really big smoke machine and a industrial fan to spread the smoke where you want it. Shoot me a PM SilentBoB, especially if you want good hire deals in Australia.... Green up to 55w __________________ Lasershowparts. Selling CNI, Laser-wave, DT electronic, DMX convector boards at low prices. We will match or better any price advertised www.lasershowparts.com

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