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FrozenGate by Avery

Wicked Lasers Q & A






Hi guys,
It seems to me that a lot of people don't know much about WL (Wicked Lasers company) where they build their lasers and from where they aquire their shades.
I will share with you some info in a Q & A session maybe I can bring some more light over this subject. The content of this post represents my personal opinion.

1) Q: Where does Wicked Lasers manufacture their lasers:
1) A: Their lasers are manufactured in China by CNI Lasers company.

2) Q: Where are the Wicked Lasers protective shaders/goggles manufactured:
2) A: I can only assume that they buy the shaders from the same company CNI Laser

3) Q: Are the CNI Laser shaders certified? (I can't say WL shaders as I'm not sure they're coming from CNI)
3) A: Yes, CNI Laser shaders are strongly certified for both major commisions U.S. and E.U.: ISO9001, CE and RoHs: CNI Laser certification see the bottom of the page.

4) Q: Why when order from WL, the shaders that comes with the lasers in the same pack, does not contain any certification saying that they are indeed a match for the power of the laser itself?
4) A: Because the bigger protection shaders offer, the more expensive they are, and WL intentionately delivers lower protection shaders like OD +2 or less as in this way, their profit earned for each laser they sell is bigger. If you buy a extra pair of shaders you'll see that their respective quality is much higher than the ones you received "for free" in the package along with your laser.
This is only link you can get regarding shaders on WL. Is not linked anywhere on the website, at least I've searched for it and I couldn't find it, so I thought I might post it here for you: Laser Eye Safety

5) Q: From where can we buy laser protective shaders other than from WL?
5) A: You have a few options but generally speaking, they do cost a little:
(If you DARE to say the protective shaders are too expensive then you're full of fatuity (ultra big stupidity): That's because you have only ONE PAIR OF EYES and they're not repairable. Thus vision protection does not have a price! Ask those who unfortunately lost their eye sight and you'll suddenly understand.)

6) Q: Where did you get all this info?
6) A: By chatting with their support. Here it is a fraction of the conversation with WL customer support:


Arthur, Mar 21 08:00 (AKDT):
HTML: 
Hello,
I've posted a comment on your website asking you about the protection glasses here: http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/LaserShades-109-16.html 
It seems I'm not the only one who would like to know about these things.
Can you please post a comment or post on your website a response as we, your customers, we would like to know more about protection before purchasing your products, as we have only ONE PAIR OF EYES.
Thank you,
Arthur

...........short amount of e-mails exchange with other tech support guy which lead in the end to forwarding my e-mails to Jeice...........

Jeice, Mar 21 15:50 (AKDT):
HTML: 
Hi Arthur,
Please kindly click this link http://www.wickedlasers.com/laser-tech/laser_eye_safety.html
and it will show you a much detailed information regarding our Lasershades.
Kindly let us know if you need further assistance and we will always be glad to help you.
Best regards,
Jeice
Wicked Lasers Support

Arthur, Mar 22 07:49 (AKDT):
HTML: 
Jeice, hey!
That's not what I've asked for.
I've askes for "technical specifications for these protective glasses" and you sent me to a page which contain "technical specifications of the LASER beam and the interaction with the human eye". Two entirely different things.
What I wish to see related to technical specifications of the protection glasses is as follows:

Errata for the below documentation:
VLT: Visible Light Transmittance (%)
MPE: Maximum Permissible Exposure of the eye
LSE: Laser safety eyewear (glasses, goggles, faceshields, etc)
OD: Optical density of the LSE
NHZ: Nominal Hazard Zone - is the physical space in which direct, reflected or scattered laser radiation exceeds the MPE.

a) the wave lenght protection curve - go here to view how it looks http://www.noirlaser.com/pdf/CE-LaserShield-Spec-Schedule.pdf 
b) optical density - go here to read about it http://www.noirlaser.com/pdf/laser_eyesafety.pdf and click on the "What factors should be considered when selecting specific eyewear?" link or scroll down until you reach it.
c) Are they CE-certified? - see this documentation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety#Regulations and http://www.noirlaser.com/lasershields/ce_certified.html

I think that these extended details I gave you will suffice for you to understand what kind of information I need from you related to the protective glasses which come along with the LASER itself. 
Any LASER protective eyewear have these specifications listed next to them in order for the client to be able to see their parameters.

I look forward to hearing from you.
Arthur

Jeice, Mar 24 09:28 (AKDT):
HTML: 
Hi Arthur,
Here is much detailed information I have gathered from our technical team regarding our laser unit and lasershades:

532nm/405nm Protection - Green and Purple wavelengths protected via 2.0+ OD
650nm Protection - Red wavelength protected via 2.0+ OD
445nm Arctic Protection - Blue wavelength protected via 3.0+ OD

And here is the specifications for the unit itself based on the following:
* Kindly note that these are Automatically-calculated results
 (for eye Maximum Permissible Exposure of 2.54 mW/cm2)
* NOHD - (Nominal Ocular Hazard Distance)
50mw Green - 532nm - 164 (NOHD in feet) - 0.03 (NOHD in miles) - 50 (NOHD in meters)
125mw Green - 532nm - 259 (NOHD in feet) - 0.05 (NOHD in miles) - 79 (NOHD in meters)
250mw Green - 532nm - 367 (NOHD in feet) - 0.07 (NOHD in miles) - 112 (NOHD in meters)
1000mw Green - 532nm - 489 (NOHD in feet) - 0.09 (NOHD in miles) - 149 (NOHD in meters)
1000mw Blue - 445nm - 733 (NOHD in feet) - 0.14 (NOHD in miles) - 224 (NOHD in meters)

As for your other concern, Our lasers are manufactured by a large Chinese laser manufacturer, CNILaser, and here is their certifications: http://www.cnilaser.com/profiles.htm

Please let us know if you need further assistance and we will always be glad to help you.
Best regards,
Jeice
Wicked Lasers Support

I hope this helps.
ChiefRA
 
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ChiefRA said:
3) Q: Are the CNI Laser shaders certified? (I can't say WL shaders as I'm not sure they're coming from CNI)
3) A: Yes, CNI Laser shaders are strongly certified for both major commisions U.S. and E.U.: ISO9001, CE and RoHs: Green & Blue laser Red Yellow UV Infrared Pulsed laser module,laser pointers Portable laser RGB laser DPSS laser-all solid states see the bottom of the page.
Click to expand...

Those shades wicked lasers provided initially with the Arctic were NOT enough to protect people from a 1W laser. I highly doubt they are certified to any standards.

ChiefRA said:
Q: Why when order from WL, the shaders that comes with the lasers in the same pack, does not contain any certification saying that they are indeed a match for the power of the laser itself?
4) A: Because the bigger protection shaders offer, the more expensive they are, and WL intentionately delivers lower protection shaders like OD +2 or less as in this way, their profit earned for each laser they sell is bigger. If you buy a extra pair of shaders you'll see that their respective quality is much higher than the ones you received "for free" in the package along with your laser.
This is only link you can get regarding shaders on WL. Is not linked anywhere on the website, at least I've searched for it and I couldn't find it, so I thought I might post it here for you: Laser Eye Safety
Click to expand...

So what you're trying to say is that if customers buy an Arctic their goggles will not be certified unless they pay for an extra pair? :wtf:


Have Wicked Lasers ever taken safety seriously? Any company that has such a frivolous attitude towards their customers safety deserves no business.
 
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I'm just going to go ahead, and call BS on WL goggles being certified in any way whatsoever.

About them offering better goggles with higher protection ratings for a higher price, that's also somewhat absurd. Bottom line, without certification, decent goggles can be had in china for a very small price. I mean I can buy goggles here in the US for under $10 as single units, that will absolutely outperform WL goggles with respect to protection for 405, 445, and 532nm.

It's also BS that CNI manufactures the lasers for WL. CNI may, may, manufacture some of the modules, for some of their lasers, but they most certainly do not manufacture all the lasers that WL sells.

Taking it a step further, just because CNI manufactures something, that does not mean that the product is up to their regular standard.

Consider for example that the same company that manufactures Movado watches manufactured tommy hilfiger watches. The latter is nowhere near the same quality. The same holds true for Bulova and Caravelle watches.

In offering rebranded, lower quality products, companies cut a lot of corners to lower prices, and still maintain margins.

Bottom line is that whole conversation, and this thread, looks kind of like a puff piece.

Meanwhile there are plenty of companies out there, who are actually honest, and produce fantastic lasers, Jetlasers comes to mind for example.
 
ARGLaser said:
Those shades wicked lasers provided initially with the Arctic were NOT enough to protect people from a 1W laser. I highly doubt they are certified to any standards.

So what you're trying to say is that if customers buy an Arctic their goggles will not be certified unless they pay for an extra pair? :wtf:

Have Wicked Lasers ever taken safety seriously? Any company that has such a frivolous attitude towards their customers safety deserves no business.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to say that seeing the tests that have made by users on this Forum with 2 different pair of glasses, one that came with the laser and the other one a better quality, my above conclusion is the right one, yes: they seem to deliver lower quality shaders along with the lasers.

Regarding your second question about taking safety seriously, I don't know. It seems they don't at least at first sight.

My opinion is to talk to (Arayan) correction: DJNY which made that YouTube video from this post, and ask him to do a laser power measurement with his 1W laser pointing it through his both pairs of shaders towards the measurement pile. In this way, we can deduct what kind of protection do they have. How does that sound?
 
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ChiefRA said:
My opinion is to talk to Arayan which made that YouTube video, and ask him to do a laser power measurement with his 1W laser pointing it through his both pairs of shaders towards the measurement pile. In this way, we can deduct what kind of protection do they have. How does that sound?
Click to expand...

What video?

Why should Arayan or anyone else here have to test anything?

Time and goggles are not free. Why should anyone be helping WL?

Their goggles are crap. The have shitty VLT and offer lousy protection. At least those that I have seen, and certainly that is supported by the data they have provided in the past.
 
InfinitusEquitas said:
About them offering better goggles with higher protection ratings for a higher price, that's also somewhat absurd. Bottom line, without certification, decent goggles can be had in china for a very small price. I mean I can buy goggles here in the US for under $10 as single units, that will absolutely outperform WL goggles with respect to protection for 405, 445, and 532nm.

It's also BS that CNI manufactures the lasers for WL. CNI may, may, manufacture some of the modules, for some of their lasers, but they most certainly do not manufacture all the lasers that WL sells.

.........

Bottom line is that whole conversation, and this thread, looks kind of like a puff piece.
Click to expand...

InfinitusEquitas first of all, my post in not an praiser for WL. I don't own any lasers from them, and I'm not affilliated in any way with them, so respect my point of view and do not denaturate it please.
2nd, I put there some new info about a company which raises a lot of questions hoping I can answer some of them like: who's behind it (which manufacturer), why every1 is complaining about their goggles and so on so forth.
I see that you tend to transform everything in a BS. You should take a little time, sit and judge the facts before drawing any conclusion ;)

The fact that CNI manufacture the laser diodes for WL means that they, the WL, have quality products (correction after arguing with InfinitusEquitas: could have quality lasers but that is another fact yet to be proven). The fact that WL had such a crappy Customer Support was an issue. The other fact that WL also delivers such a crappy eye protection with those "free" shaders that come next to every laser they sell, that's a totaly different thing and I presume that they can and will be prosecuted if someone within US decides to sue them for that.

I repeat, I'm not keeping their side, "on contraire": I try to bring some real facts and some real info here on this forum, for everyone to judge by themselves and draw some conclusions.

Regarding the video, this is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6RjV71diXVE
 
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ChiefRA said:
InfinitusEquitas first of all, my post in not an praiser for WL. I don't own any lasers from them, and I'm not affilliated in any way with them, so respect my point of view and do not denaturate it please.
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight, you're asking me, and everyone else to respect your opinion about a company, when you have never actually owned a product made by that company?

At the same time later in this same thread you raise a number of "facts". Kind of begs the question of what those "facts" are based on.

I will respect your point of view, only in so far as it is supported by real evidence, and verified facts.

Conversely I will also respect your point of view happily if you state for the record that your "facts" are entirely subjective, and therefore irrelevant.

For example if someone says "my favorite color is blue" - that is a subjective statement. There is no way to verify it, and it holds no relevance to people who do not care about your views.

Instead if you say "the oceans appear blue when viewed from space" that is an objective statement. Why? Because your statement can be supported through verification.

ChiefRA said:
2nd, I put there some new info about a company which raises a lot of questions hoping I can answer some of them like: who's behind it (which manufacturer),
Click to expand...

What new information have you offered, except a made up Q&A session, and some chat/email transcripts? To anyone following WL nothing you have posted is in anyway new :thinking:

ChiefRA said:
why every1 is complaining about their goggles and so on so forth.
Click to expand...

This has been covered a lot... people complain about their goggles BECAUSE (in capitals so you don't miss this point) the goggles SUCK. They are low quality junk branded with a WL logo, and do not offer the protection needed when dealing with high powered lasers.

As an aside, we're not texting here are we? Let's stick to normal english everyone.

ChiefRA said:
I see that you tend to transform everything in a BS. You should take a little time, sit and judge the facts before drawing any conclusion ;)
Click to expand...

Ahh, that's a good way to get your point across... insult anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you.

Let's review those facts shall we?

ChiefRA said:
The fact that CNI manufacture the laser diodes for WL means that they, the WL, have quality products.
Click to expand...

1. That is not a "fact", at least not a verifiable one. (Feel free to get a press release from CNI to prove me wrong.)
2. Even if it were true, how do you know that CNI, and company to whom the laser pointer market is less than a flea on the hide of an elephant, doesn't sell off the shittiest diodes and modules to Wicked Lasers.

Large manufacturing companies tend to do a very good job in binning their products... better products are usually sold OEM, or to high end secondary resellers who incorporate said products.

Cheaper products are sold off at lower prices to whoever will buy them. WL is well known for cutting corners.

ChiefRA said:
The fact that WL have such a crappy Customer Support is an issue.
Click to expand...

Actually, lately at least, they have been making quite an effort stepping up, where customer service is concerned.

That's not to say that they haven't dropped the ball a lot in the past, in BIG ways, but you really should do some more fact checking, before providing your "facts".

ChiefRA said:
The other fact that WL also delivers such a crappy eye protection with those "free" shaders that come next to every laser they sell, that's a totaly different thing and I presume that they can and will be prosecuted if someone within US decides to sue them for that.
Click to expand...

1. WL is not a US based company.
2. Importing lasers over 5mW is illegal by US law.

This effectively means that no private citizen can sue WL.

ChiefRA said:
I repeat, I'm not keeping their side, "on contraire": I try to bring some real facts and some real info here on this forum, for everyone to judge by themselves and draw some conclusions.
Click to expand...

That's great, but let's stick to FACTS please.

Refer to what the definition of a fact is: A fact (derived from the Latin factum, see below) is something that has really occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be proven to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable experiments.

ChiefRA said:
Regarding the video, this is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6RjV71diXVE
Click to expand...

Well that clears things up nicely.

I mean how could we ever not know about a video posted on youtube about lasers. I mean there is what only 2-3 of them on there, and everyone has seen every single one of them. My bad. :cryyy:
 
Let's take it slowly:

InfinitusEquitas said:
So let me get this straight, you're asking me, and everyone else to respect your opinion about a company, when you have never actually owned a product made by that company?
At the same time later in this same thread you raise a number of "facts". Kind of begs the question of what those "facts" are based on.
Click to expand...

What's your point here as I don't get it? Are you trying to demolish my "facts" one by one or what? :yh:
It's visible that you have a tooth against WL. I'm not loving them either for what they have done in the past but that thing doesn't cloud my judgement and allows me to write a post here based on my extensive research. As that's what my "facts" are based on by the way. And yes: my opinion is subjective at some point, as it is yours and everyone else's.
That's why we're debating these subjects over and over. Anyway, let's move on. :yh:

InfinitusEquitas said:
This has been covered a lot... people complain about their goggles BECAUSE (in capitals so you don't miss this point) the goggles SUCK. They are low quality junk branded with a WL logo, and do not offer the protection needed when dealing with high powered lasers.
Click to expand...

Agree.

InfinitusEquitas said:
Ahh, that's a good way to get your point across... insult anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm not insulting you in any way. I didn't open this post to "fight" anyone, I just opened a discussion thread, you don't need to jump down my throat for that. :yh: We're on the same side.

InfinitusEquitas said:
2. Even if it were true, how do you know that CNI, and company to whom the laser pointer market is less than a flea on the hide of an elephant, doesn't sell off the shittiest diodes and modules to Wicked Lasers.
Large manufacturing companies tend to do a very good job in binning their products... better products are usually sold OEM, or to high end secondary resellers who incorporate said products.
Cheaper products are sold off at lower prices to whoever will buy them. WL is well known for cutting corners.
Click to expand...

OK, agree to some point with that too.

InfinitusEquitas said:
Actually, lately at least, they have been making quite an effort stepping up, where customer service is concerned.
That's not to say that they haven't dropped the ball a lot in the past, in BIG ways, but you really should do some more fact checking, before providing your "facts".
Click to expand...

Sorry that my statement wasn't clear enough that I was talking about their past also, I'll correct that. They improved their Customer Support lately very much, so I agree with you on this one too ;)

InfinitusEquitas said:
I mean how could we ever not know about a video posted on youtube about lasers. I mean there is what only 2-3 of them on there, and everyone has seen every single one of them. My bad. :cryyy:
Click to expand...

Pfff, your sarcasm doesn't help much, I was talking about the YouTube video that is posted here on the Forum by DJNY. That YouTube video where it shows that the WL shaders are crappy is on this post.
Satisfied now? ;)

OK let's stop arguing about this. I think we both made our points ;) They as a company have bad parts and good parts. Let's hope they will improve the bad parts as they did with the Customer Service and will bring mode satisfied customers over time.
EOS
 
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Why does this thread exist? Everyone on here knows the WL is shit. They are a manufacturer of professionally polished turds, but you know what they say about polishing a turd...

Here, replace you Q & A with the following to save yourself some time.

Q: Insert question about WL here.
A: Because it's cheaper & WL makes more money this way.
 
ChiefRA said:
Let's take it slowly:



What's your point here as I don't get it? Are you trying to demolish my "facts" one by one or what? :yh:
It's visible that you have a tooth against WL. I'm not loving them either for what they have done in the past but that thing doesn't cloud my judgement and allows me to write a post here based on my extensive research. As that's what my "facts" are based on by the way. And yes: my opinion is subjective at some point, as it is yours and everyone else's.
That's why we're debating these subjects over and over. Anyway, let's move on. :yh:
Click to expand...
It's an accepted fact that Wicked Lasers is worthless.

See here: http://laserpointerforums.com/f65/33-reasons-not-buy-wicked-lasers-56289.html
 
ChiefRA said:
Let's take it slowly:

Ok, if we must. :angel:

What's your point here as I don't get it? Are you trying to demolish my "facts" one by one or what? :yh:
It's visible that you have a tooth against WL. I'm not loving them either for what they have done in the past but that thing doesn't cloud my judgement and allows me to write a post here based on my extensive research. As that's what my "facts" are based on by the way. And yes: my opinion is subjective at some point, as it is yours and everyone else's.
That's why we're debating these subjects over and over. Anyway, let's move on. :yh:

I'm not trying to demolish your "facts", I'm fairly certain I have demolished them ;)

With regards to having a tooth to grind with WL (I'm 99% sure that's the expression you were looking for) it's no different than the way I treat any other company that's screwed many people, sells overpriced, underspec lasers. At the same time, I go out of my way to help out good companies.

My judgement is based on my own experiences, as well as the experiences of many other people.

Your "extensive research" seems to have entirely missed the largest repository of feedback for laser pointer related information.

At the same time, while you can certainly make the argument that any judgement is ultimately subjective, please note my "subjectivity" is in line with that of hundreds of other people, and is backed up with real experiences.

Moving on...


Pfff, your sarcasm doesn't help much, I was talking about the YouTube video that is posted here on the Forum by DJNY. That YouTube video where it shows that the WL shaders are crappy is on this post.
Satisfied now? ;)

Are you sure? Because it at least seems to have gotten the point across. I mean you posted about something, without really referencing what you're talking about.

OK let's stop arguing about this. I think we both made our points ;) They as a company have bad parts and good parts. Let's hope they will improve the bad parts as they did with the Customer Service and will bring mode satisfied customers over time.
EOS
Click to expand...

I fail to see your points... they are a proven bad company. Buying their products, except for sencond hand, is a losing proposition.

You should really relabel this thread... this is not a Q&A, it's you relaying what you're finding out.
 
InfinitusEquitas, I second your observations!

They are 100% correct, based on my experience, knowledge + WL history as told on this forum and elsewhere.

PS ChiefRA---CNI does not manufacture diodes of any kind and most of your so called Q and A is way off track/in left field.
 
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I cant see the point of opening a thread just to
ask and answer your own questions about a company
that sells crap and continually lies to it's customers...
(I'm assuming for the moment that this is not a
TROLL thread)

Example... "Worlds most powerful Laser".. Far from it.
This Forum's members produce Lasers that will put
WL products to shame... in verified power and quality.

Example... Advertised 1 Watt Arctics that only output
500 to 750 mW... I'd call that a huge lie...

Yes I have purchased from WL in the past and know
what I'm speaking of...

Every point that IE made about WL I concur with...


Jerry

You can contact us at any time through our Website: J.BAUER Electronics
 
This thread made me laugh...thank you. Your whole argument is based on what you've read from non-enthusiast customers. In layman's terms...people who have no idea what they are talking about. Then when real lazor enthusiast...who have direct knowledge of WL products try to give you real information you ignore it...and argue your empty conclusions. This make you look very inept...and clueless. Whats worst is that you never even owned a WL product. So you literally have 0 experience to back up your conclusions.

This is the wrong forum for your soapbox. People are actually intelligent here...LOOL.
 
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lasersbee said:
Example... "Worlds most powerful Laser".. Far from it.
This Forum's members produce Lasers that will put
WL products to shame... in verified power and quality.

Example... Advertised 1 Watt Arctics that only output
500 to 750 mW... I'd call that a huge lie...
Click to expand...

I accept your point of view if you say you'd verified their products and they sell "lies".

Guys guys,
I feel that everyone in this forum has a big problem with WL. It's fine by me! You don't need to yell any louder than that.
I must repeat myself: I'm not DEFENDING this company. I simply wished to share my "poor it seems" knowledge about WL: who is manufacturing their diodes and perhaps from where they buy their crappy shaders, THAT'S IT!

You asumed well Jerry, it's not a TROLL post.
Thanks.

Arthur
 
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