Do CNI lasers REALLY have accession numbers?

So over here (http://laserpointerforums.com/f40/pgl-iii-c-473-50mw-died-52419-4.html#post759094) I've been chronicling the story of the repair of my PGL-III-C-473; something that other people have had go just fine and smoothly.

But I have a feeling due to Wicked's recent shennanigans, the FDA is clamping down tightly on anything and everything that says "laser" on it.

CNI claims on their website:

CNI' s handheld Class IIIb lasers incorporate a 5-point safety system which includes an aperture shutter, key switch, indicator LED, interlock, and output delay. We have obtained FDA accession numbers for all of our products to be shipped into the United States.

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(Located on this page: --> Laser pointer, handheld laser, 473 nm blue, 532 nm green, yellow, red portable laser. )


However, today, I got a call from DHL, mid-shipment, with them frantic about getting my Tax ID #, SSN# and a "FDA Form 2877" (example here: http://www.pbb.com/en/tools/trade_documentation_tools/usa_documents/FDA2877-Fillable.pdf ) in order to deliver the laser. Saying they cannot do so without it.

One of the options on that form is, basically, "Yes, this laser has an Accession # on file."

Searching, now, however, I can't find a reference to PGL-III-C having an accession # anywhere. This does not bode well.

Now, this is the PGL-III-C, with the safety requirements as described above. It's not sold as a pointer. Basically, it hits all the marks. CNI claims they have accession numbers -- so this laser should be perfectly legal to import, right?

The only thing I wonder is -- a lot of companies in China tend to be - to say the least - a little bit less honest than they should be.

CNI has a great reputation in this forum, and my situation is (due to my damned luck) - the only such thing that I've ever seen happen here.

My primary worry: A) I'm probably not going to get the laser. and, B) I'm not so sure that CNI is about to wire my money back to me for the thing. (Fat chance on that. But maybe their reputation IS deserved and maybe they will.)

Secondarily: Could the FDA go back through shipping records and demand all of my lasers. Who knows. I suppose it's possible at this point.

I was alwaws a proponent of ordering the lasers with the 5-point safety systems and staying as compliant as humanly possible. Ordering from CNI, I *thought*, as stated on their website, that these lasers all have accession numbers and are perfectly legal to import.

Either CNI fudged up their paperwork (Which seems strange, with how many of these they export to the US) - or... there is no accession number.

Does anyone have any information to the contrary? I saw "cnilasers" post on the forum just a few days ago, encouraging people to buy directly from them. I'd love to see them step up right now and help out with what's happening here, or explain what's going on.

If CNI leaves me high and dry after $1000 in; after claiming their lasers are 100% legal and have accession numbers (I know, I know, Wicked has claimed this too, and lied) - I *hope* that I can tell them that if they don't make this right, the entire forum will know. I know NOBODY wants to lose CNI as a resource - I was just about to wire them another $900 to ship another (other wavelength) PGL to me, today! -- I'm holding off on that until this is resolved (if it's ever resolved.)

I'm sure there are some folks who could give some insight into this, here, on the forum. I hope, at least.

This is a good question. I think it would be best to ask CNI about it directly.

Already have done that.. I just know some folks in some other threads were able to pull up FDA documentation for Wicked... maybe they could do the same for CNI...

Wow aryntha.. looks like you had some bad luck and got caught by a customs agent who knows what's up and cares. I hope you get everything straightened out. CNI does a lot of business here, and much of it professional, so they may well have accession numbers ready to be supplied whenever possible.

FrothyChimp works for oemlasersystems.com, a serious, professional US based laser retailer. They sell CNI portables, which they would not be able to do legally without accession numbers.

Too bad you weren't importing a lab laser.. then you'd be covered by Sec. A Part 5 of form 2877.

Yeah, thanks, heh - this is what I've said about my luck...

I HOPE, that CNI really does have an Accession # like they claim for this. If that's the case, do I just have to put that onto the form and I should be good to go?

When you order from a company that states "All of our lasers imported into the US have accession numbers" - well ....... one would expect that they would. I wonder why they didn't include it on their paperwork. :thinking:

aryntha said:

I HOPE, that CNI really does have an Accession # like they claim for this. If that's the case, do I just have to put that onto the form and I should be good to go?

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Based on the form, that's about all you can do. There's only so many places to write on there that apply to you, so it would seem it's fairly straightforward, but I haven't had to fill that form out before knock on wood..

Well, update.

Ava claims she's sending me the filled-out 2877 form. (Maybe they've done this before?)
So, we'll see...

If so, I'll post the accession # here, as it really may help to have that on record.

aryntha said:

If so, I'll post the accession # here, as it really may help to have that on record.

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It'd probably be better if you didn't - the number itself is apparently supposed to be confidential.

If you have any more issues, I'll see about making a few phone calls to find out more.

-Trevor

Ok, Trevor, thanks; I'll keep it quiet then, was not aware that it was supposed to be confidential but now I know..

Yobresal tells me, that if they can get the form, everything should go pretty smoothly.

This brings up an interesting point. I'm sure most of us have always assumed that CNI's lasers have accession numbers. I've never heard of anyone else having problems with getting CNI lasers through customs. :thinking:

This sucks aryntha.
I have been following your other thread about your 473nm. You spent a lot of time with Ava getting it all taken care of.
I was just waiting for you to get it back for testing, now this
Sure hope this has a happy ending.

I would say that if there is no ascension number for all the CNI PGl III lasers, then also LG w/b lying as they too claim all these same lasers have valid ascension numbers, so, I am confident this is true. All s/b taken care of soon. If not I sure need to know, as I can not offer these to folks in GB's if they lack all the requirements including the ascension numbers! -Glenn

scopeguy20 said:

I sure need to know, as I can not offer these to folks in GB's if they lack all the requirements including the ascension numbers! -Glenn

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Nooooooooo:cryyy:

scopeguy20 said:

I would say that if there is no ascension number for all the CNI PGl III lasers, then also LG w/b lying as they too claim all these same lasers have valid ascension numbers, so, I am confident this is true. All s/b taken care of soon. If not I sure need to know, as I can not offer these to folks in GB's if they lack all the requirements including the ascension numbers! -Glenn

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Glenn, I will absolutely relay my findings to you as they come in... It looks good, but I think this information would be especially pertinent to you in relation to the group buys.

I can't publicize any numbers but lets just say that CNI has been responsive and not evasive - I'll get my definitive answer in I think a day or so.

Just wondering, what would be a reason that accession numbers are meant to be confidential?
Hypothetically, 5 years from now, CNI has gone out of business & you want to sell a old CNI laser from you collection. If you don't have the accession number for it then only luck would prevent it from being seized even tho its fully legal.

The concern would be a CNI clone using their accession number? Surely safeguards could make that harder. First thought is requiring a fax from a phone number matching one on file for them. CID can be spoofed tho.

I'm guessing it has something to do with that. CNI I'm sure doesn't want some other company selling PGL lookalikes (there sure are a lot of them out there) under their accession number.

Of course, the accession number must match the manufacturer of record, so I'm not sure. It's not like Rayfoss could pretend to be CNI on the customers form. Accession # and Manufacturer of Record go together. If the importer/exporter, and that manufacturer, don't match up, it's no go. I think Yobresal experienced that with BoBLaser.

So I'm not sure what the rationale is, but the last thing I want to do is endanger the legal imports we -do- have, so unless I hear otherwise I'm keeping any info that I get to myself or on a real 'need to know' basis.

(Even in that case I'll likely refer someone to CNI first, as I said, they *are* being helpful, which is a pleasant surprise. I think it's because I have another Proforma Invoice waiting to be paid to them, and it's kind of contingent on this laser getting here. Not to mention Glenn's GB#11.)