Pioneer BDR-205 12X Blu-Ray Burner

lv128 said:

Well until I decide what I'm going to do with my sloppy 8x, I'm holding off on harvesting the good one it was a surprisingly difficult harvest and I smashed the PHR diode out of the exisitng aixiz module I had since I didn't get my new modules in. I wanted to test the 8x right away

The glass on the diode appears to have some AR props to it given it's shimmery look under flourescent light. what I'd really like to do is learn more about fiber coupling so I can put the 2 8x together than make a really powerful blu for burning.

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I believe you should send the 8x module to me. :angel:
I have a removal tool made of steel by Jayrob!

It can remove it safelly and i can reinsert it under an inert atmosphere into a new module properly....


This should/could (guessing here) extend it's life...

Altho, if i could keep it for testing in the 8x Diode MURDER experiment as the third diode... (how much for the broken window? it still works at full power right? We could then add a third into the pool) Let's discuss this in the email some more...

LarryDFW said:

Igor;

This story has the most pure technical info and the graph I posted :

Sanyo Develops 450mW Blue-Violet Laser Diode -- Nikkei Electronics Asia --

This is another tech article:

Sharp Develops Semiconductor Laser for Triple, Quadruple-layer Blu-ray Discs -- Tech-On!

LarryDFW

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Thank you Larry, i am checking it out now! :yh:


That Sharp diode looks promissing! 500mW pulsed! And they mention 8x drives?!? Or multilayer writing speeds at 8x?

Our 8x drives can only do 8x speed on Single Layer recording, and this diode only just started production..

No luck then, i still fear the 8x's are 125/250mW diodes.. How on earth are they surviving at 500mW+, and with no kinks even?!?


This is why i thought murdering an 8x would give us a clue as to what to expect... I do hope they last long enough at 400mW+! :undecided:

LarryDFW said:

Igor;

This story has the most pure technical info and the graph I posted :

Sanyo Develops 450mW Blue-Violet Laser Diode -- Nikkei Electronics Asia --

This is another tech article:

Sharp Develops Semiconductor Laser for Triple, Quadruple-layer Blu-ray Discs -- Tech-On!

LarryDFW

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In that first article it says this at the end

The fabrication precision of the dry etching process used to form the ridges is about double that of the prior process, with the result that the new laser device shows no kinks up through 600mW to 700mW optical output.

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Does this mean that 700mw + laser builds are possible with one of these?

metaman said:

Does this mean that 700mw + laser builds are possible with one of these?

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Not necessarily.. It just means there are no kinks up to that power or possibly even higher! (see guys, the manufacturers torture them as well, why shouldn't we?)

I also tested some of my GGWs and the 100mW Nihia to WAY above their pulsed powers! They all still work, but i later reduced the current back down to a safe(er) level, cos i like my lasers to last...



Problem is, these kinks - if they even exist with 12x's - HAVE to be FAR outside ot the diode surivability range! Because starting with GGWs, the PI plot is a straight line right until the diode dies! You can't even plot it to the power where the kink is without killing it (unless it was done pulsed).... :angel:




I wonder if kinks - when the diode is pulsed - look the same on the PIV plot as the ones we find in CW plotting - Like where on the PIV Plot = position / shape of the kink, beam profile - how the spot splits into "two" (mode-"hopping").... Maybe you can only push the diode to it's kink in pulsed operation, which is why we don't see them anymore...

Otherwise, the reason a diode HAS to be kink free up to way above it's rated pulsed power is, that if there was a kink underneath, the writing of the disk would fail!


All diodes from 105mW CW/210mW pulsed ratings and higher were somehow kink-free - even when pushed beyond the pulsed power in CW!
First the GGW then the 100mW/200mW Nichia... You can push them to death and not find a kink! I have even seeen it with a BDR-F03 diode!
It must be at least 80mW to 100mW in CW! :thinking: Why would they put a 6x-like diode in a 2x sled?!? Maybe it's just another manufacturer's 6x diode!


If the F03 is a 2x writer, it's really weird! Cos to me it seems to be at least as good as a GGW, but i'm cycling them all soon anyway.... :evil:
BTW, Dave, yur freak could theoretically die during my re-plot! If it does, it was just a matter of seconds anyway! :angel:

So my question to you is how far i can plot the ""Freak" BDR-F03?


Now the 8x's.. The plots again just keep going in a straight line, at some point it could end in death without warning if we go too far!

Basically we don't have any indication as to where to stop pushing! But the 500mW diode from Sharp has a kink again?!? Or did it say at least to 700mW? If so it's likelly (could be) yet another kinkless diode to the point where it dies..


The lack of kinks is the reason we can set them to such absurd powers! Basically we are just trading some of those 1000h+ for more power!

And since 1000h+ is at 80°C, while we usually keep them cool with our heatsinks, this also helps prolong the life a little - they degrade faster with heat, as shown in the diode datasheets...



But the point should not be to overdo it, but at least to learn the MINIMUMS of how long they can last at the powers we use or maybe even to see if there is room for more power!! People could then chose "preciselly" (diodes vary of course) how much of the diode life time they are willing to sacrifice, if they want to go for a higher power! If someone is happy with 25h, they can up the current, if someone wants the laser to last longer than that.... It's up to the individual builder/buyer. The cycler tests will tell us what we need to know... :yh:


For example, if 400mW survives my Cycler for a "year" (= accelerated year of normal use - 100h), we could always go for 500mW too, if we are willing to get a 25-50h laser...

And while 25-50h doesn't sound like much, with most people using a relativelly short duty cycle, 25-50h takes a LONG TIME to reach!


I'll prepare some usage calculations, to convert average daily laser use into months (and hopefully years), using the laser use habbits of this forum.

I think i did that once already, but i don't remember where i put it... :yabbem:



Only the PHRs (and some even weaker diodes) were ever exhibiting kinks (oh and one GGW i found!), and set above these kinks they often died rapidly (1-15 hours)... But that was because we were overdriving them to three or even five times their rated CW power... (good times)


But a 12x kink-free to 700mW doesn't really mean much. It would probably be possible to make a 700mW laser out of it, but it too could die way too soon... Possibly even during plotting!

If anything, they seem to be capable of PULSING to 700mW, meaning it can probably/possibly do it in CW too... :angel:

But god only knows for how many minutes... :undecided:

Krutz said:

a 12x groupbuy would be da bomb!
you would get quite many requests, i bet!

manuel

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We could always turn the 8x GB into a 12x, if they REALLY come out very soon!

But the problem is, with 8x's we already know a little bit of what they can do. Soon MUCH more!

But with 12x's? Well, the "minimum" should then be 600mW+ if we keep progressing like this!

But we won't know how long that can last unless we kill one.. :angel:


I'm already arranging things with iv128 to sort out the details of the first order IF his supplier ACTUALLY releases them this soon!

I agree, lets go on with the 8x one. even if we get the 12x that fast, many people will be interested in 8x data. and yes, we would need something to compare the 12x to.. ;-)
if the 12x turns out to be only slightly better than 8x with higher price, similar to 4x vs 6x drives, we better know!

manuel

What is the group buy price going to be on the 8x anyway?

lv128 said:

What is the group buy price going to be on the 8x anyway?

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I'm not 100% sure, but these might be the cheapest that we can get:

Newegg.com - LG Black 8X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 6X BD-ROM 2MB Cache 8X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk Model WH08LS20K - Blu-Ray Burners

Unless you can get them cheaper?

Thats a good sign. The 12X might be closer than we think.

bryce007 said:

I'm not 100% sure, but these might be the cheapest that we can get:

Newegg.com - LG Black 8X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 6X BD-ROM 2MB Cache 8X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk Model WH08LS20K - Blu-Ray Burners

Unless you can get them cheaper?

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Wow, that is quite a difference in price, my current price through the "channel distribution" is $193. So what really astounds me is that Newegg is selling something for less than retail cost. Over the years we used to stock some things from newegg that our main distro glossed over and usually had to make our prices higher than normal just to cover the cost. Newegg occasionally has some deals.

I just got the call from our pioneer distributor, they tell me that pioneer has the hardware on hand, and they are waiting for their software OEMS to send them the discs that go wtih the bundles and will ship them as soon as they have that which he estimates at 3 weeks. So 10/10 is an incorrect date but it sounds like they're still on track for an october release.

-Ryan

lv128 said:

Wow, that is quite a difference in price, my current price through the "channel distribution" is $193. So what really astounds me is that Newegg is selling something for less than retail cost. Over the years we used to stock some things from newegg that our main distro glossed over and usually had to make our prices higher than normal just to cover the cost. Newegg occasionally has some deals.

I just got the call from our pioneer distributor, they tell me that pioneer has the hardware on hand, and they are waiting for their software OEMS to send them the discs that go wtih the bundles and will ship them as soon as they have that which he estimates at 3 weeks. So 10/10 is an incorrect date but it sounds like they're still on track for an october release.

-Ryan

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Still on track for $202?

I forgot to ask price, sorry, I'll have to wait till monday to find out
:banghead:

EDIT: Nvm, wrong article lol

lv128 said:

Wow, that is quite a difference in price, my current price through the "channel distribution" is $193. So what really astounds me is that Newegg is selling something for less than retail cost. Over the years we used to stock some things from newegg that our main distro glossed over and usually had to make our prices higher than normal just to cover the cost. Newegg occasionally has some deals.

I just got the call from our pioneer distributor, they tell me that pioneer has the hardware on hand, and they are waiting for their software OEMS to send them the discs that go wtih the bundles and will ship them as soon as they have that which he estimates at 3 weeks. So 10/10 is an incorrect date but it sounds like they're still on track for an october release.

-Ryan

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This is GREAT news, lv128!

Did you get my last email?

Tabish said:

Wow, rated at 500mw pulsed. We should be able to do 500mw cw at least I'm guessing.

What are the 8x diodes officially rated at (pulsed) ?

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Waait, what did i miss? What is rated as 500mW PULSED? :thinking:

IgorT,

What is it the you believe kills a "diode" first?

Would you say its normally the dye connections? Those tiny wires that burn out on LOCs?

Or would you say its the dye itself?