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Confused about Illinois law.

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bman90

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Hi all, I'm thinking about getting a high power laser 200mW or so however I'm confused about the Illinois law regarding registering a laser.


Under section 315:60, Class 3B and 4 lasers must be registered with the State of Illinois. This includes lasers brought from out-of-state into Illinois (registration must be done 10 days in advance of the laser's use in Illinois).


On the registration sheet it says laser safety officer name. Is a course required in Illinois before operating a high power laser? I did a quick google search and found nothing on it. Would appreciate if other Illinois guys chime in.

http://www.illinois.gov/iema/NRS/RadSafety/Documents/laser.pdf
 





NightExplorer96

NightExplorer96

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Importing any laser with an output power of over 5mW+, or Class IIIa is deemed illegal by the FDA unless there is a specific need for such a device.

After brief research, becoming a LSO means you have taken courses about the safe handling of lasers, how they function etc... but this does NOT ALLOW you to then import any lasers, of any power into the US. You are simply deemed to have enough training to handle the use of such lasers in whatever method they are being used, as in military, manufacturing and so on.

Honestly, it will be much cheaper if you buy quality laser goggles, take some time to read the dangers of lasers on the forums & then build your own green laser(order the module, host etc...) following the many threads available on here.

I see this is your first post as well! Welcome to the forums & please ask if you have any other questions :)

-Alex
 
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Encap

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bman90 said:
Hi all, I'm thinking about getting a high power laser 200mW or so however I'm confused about the Illinois law regarding registering a laser.


Under section 315:60, Class 3B and 4 lasers must be registered with the State of Illinois. This includes lasers brought from out-of-state into Illinois (registration must be done 10 days in advance of the laser's use in Illinois).


On the registration sheet it says laser safety officer name. Is a course required in Illinois before operating a high power laser? I did a quick google search and found nothing on it. Would appreciate if other Illinois guys chime in.

http://www.illinois.gov/iema/NRS/RadSafety/Documents/laser.pdf
Click to expand...

Am not from Illinois but was interested because I had not heard of the Illinois registration requirements before

In general you can have a look here: https://www.illinois.gov/iema/NRS/RadSafety/Pages/Laser.aspx

Importantly see: http://www.illinois.gov/iema/nrs/radsafety/documents/2014laserregistrationletter.pdf
You can call Don Agnew at 217-785-9975 who is listed on the bottom of the page and ask any specific questions. He was a nice guy happy to clarify things for me. I called him and he told me the laser safety officer requirement applied even to private individuals owning any laser over 5mW. I was surprised--something new---Illinois is the only State with these requirements.

So apparently the laser safety officer requirement applies to an individual owning an operating a laser that is class 3b or 4 in Illinois. So yes you would have to take a course to be your own LSO. Maybe call Mr. Agnew at IEMA and ask what course would apply to your situation---maybe there is an online couse that would be fun and interesting that would qualify you as your own LSO.

Hope that helps---good luck.

Tha Greenlander said:
Importing any laser with an output power of over 5mW+, or Class IIIa is deemed illegal by the FDA unless there is a specific need for such a device.

After brief research, becoming a LSO means you have taken courses about the safe handling of lasers, how they function etc... but this does NOT ALLOW you to then import any lasers, of any power into the US. You are simply deemed to have enough training to handle the use of such lasers in whatever method they are being used, as in military, manufacturing and so on.

Honestly, it will be much cheaper if you buy quality laser goggles, take some time to read the dangers of lasers on the forums & then build your own green laser(order the module, host etc...) following the many threads available on here.

I see this is your first post as well! Welcome to the forums & please ask if you have any other questions :)

-Alex
Click to expand...

Under State of Illinois Law, rules, and regulations it does not matter how he obtains a Class 3b or 4 laser . Whether he buys one from wherever on earth, builds one, or is given one as a gift. Under Illinois Compiled Statutes section 315:60, Class 3B and 4 lasers must be registered with the State of Illinois if owned or operated in the State of Illinois.
 
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hwang21

hwang21

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As if anyone who bought their 2 for $1 eBay pens bothers to register their lasers with the state of IL...
 
mbcolangelo

mbcolangelo

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hwang21 said:
As if anyone who bought their 2 for $1 eBay pens bothers to register their lasers with the state of IL...
Click to expand...

Right! But this does at least give law enforcement better grounds for issuing tickets or possible arrests to pranksters.

Page 24. Among others, it looks to carry a minimum Class A misdemeanor and can go on to more serious charges.
https://www.illinois.gov/iema/laws/Documents/Regs/32_310.pdf

IMO it's a double edge sword. I'm sure every responsible laser own on this forum will agree that there's way to many idiots running around with lasers. Threatening the well being of everyone around them.

But this also makes it more difficult for responsible owners like ourselves to own and operate a laser legally.

I guess this is kinda comparable to firearm safety and registration? Although it would appear this is a little more costly to obtain.

Under State of Illinois Law, rules, and regulations it does not matter how he obtains a Class 3b or 4 laser . Whether he buys one from wherever on earth, builds one, or is given one as a gift. Under Illinois Compiled Statutes section 315:60, Class 3B and 4 lasers must be registered with the State of Illinois if owned or operated in the State of Illinois.
Click to expand...

Yes, but he's still subject to the federal fda ban on importing >5mW lasers (right?)
 
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Encap

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mbcolangelo said:
Yes, but he's still subject to the federal fda ban on importing >5mW lasers (right?)
Click to expand...

There is no ban on imports. Either something is imported legally or it is not. US Customs regulates imports and exports not the FDA. Is an entirely different issue from anything the FDA does.

That there is a ban, is pretty much just misunderstood, misinterpretated, and misrepresented FDA laws, rules , and regulations. In short misinformation by people who do not actually read in total the laws, rules, and regulations and/or do not comprehend the complicated laws, rules, and regulations. + commonly mix up terminology and different government entities areas of responsibility and authority they don't understand.

This may help--was part of a post by Patrick Murphy who runs the very excellent site: Laser Pointer Safety - A comprehensive resource, for safe and responsible laser use

"1. There are no federal restrictions on possession of lasers. (There may be some restrictions at the state or local level.)
2. There are currently no federal restrictions on sales of lasers above 5mW, as long as those lasers are not pointers and they have required safety features and paperwork.
3. The only restrictions on laser usage are for medical, demonstration, laser show, surveying, leveling or alignment purposes.

Below are some details explaining FDA regulations, to the best of my research and understanding. If you, FDA, or anyone else feels I am inaccurate, I invite any comments or corrections.

1) At the federal level, there is no law against owning or responsibly using a laser of any type or power -- except for three specific uses: medical, demonstration (which includes laser light shows), and "surveying, leveling or alignment" lasers. Demonstration and SLA lasers are restricted to being below 5 mW unless the user has obtained a "variance" from the FDA regulations.

2) FDA asserts that lasers sold as "pointers" or marketed for pointing purposes are demonstration and/or SLA lasers. This is why pointers must be below 5 mW. (Note that this explains why so many >5 mW handheld lasers on the Internet are not called “pointers” and are not sold for pointing purposes. Depending on your view, the sellers are either exploiting a loophole or are lawfully complying with FDA regulations.)

3) It is the sale or marketing of >5 mW pointers that the FDA asserts is illegal. The person who could be prosecuted is the seller or marketer. It is NOT the buyer or owner. If FDA issues a recall, the buyer or owner is not legally required to return the laser."

4) When FDA takes action to block imports of pointers or handheld lasers, it is for one of two main reasons:

4A) The laser is over 5 mW and is incorrectly labeled as a “pointer” or is incorrectly marketed for pointing purposes.

4B) The laser does not meet federal standards for its classification (e.g., Class 3B or 4) in one or more areas such as safety features, labeling, documentation, etc. Some violations may be truly unsafe, others may be more bureaucratic paperwork-not-done-right mistakes."

See: http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/fda-proposes-ban-handhelds-5mw-89134.html in particular post #14
 
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mbcolangelo

mbcolangelo

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Encap said:
There is no ban on imports. Either something is imported legally or it is not. US Customs regulates imports and exports not the FDA. Is an entirely different issue from anything the FDA does.

That there is a ban, is pretty much just misunderstood, misinterpretated, and misrepresented FDA laws, rules , and regulations. In short misinformation by people who do not actually read in total the laws, rules, and regulations and/or do not comprehend the complicated laws, rules, and regulations. + commonly mix up terminology and different government entities areas of responsibility and authority they don't understand.

This may help--was part of a post by Patrick Murphy who runs the very excellent site: Laser Pointer Safety - A comprehensive resource, for safe and responsible laser use

"1. There are no federal restrictions on possession of lasers. (There may be some restrictions at the state or local level.)
2. There are currently no federal restrictions on sales of lasers above 5mW, as long as those lasers are not pointers and they have required safety features and paperwork.
3. The only restrictions on laser usage are for medical, demonstration, laser show, surveying, leveling or alignment purposes.

Below are some details explaining FDA regulations, to the best of my research and understanding. If you, FDA, or anyone else feels I am inaccurate, I invite any comments or corrections.

1) At the federal level, there is no law against owning or responsibly using a laser of any type or power -- except for three specific uses: medical, demonstration (which includes laser light shows), and "surveying, leveling or alignment" lasers. Demonstration and SLA lasers are restricted to being below 5 mW unless the user has obtained a "variance" from the FDA regulations.

2) FDA asserts that lasers sold as "pointers" or marketed for pointing purposes are demonstration and/or SLA lasers. This is why pointers must be below 5 mW. (Note that this explains why so many >5 mW handheld lasers on the Internet are not called “pointers” and are not sold for pointing purposes. Depending on your view, the sellers are either exploiting a loophole or are lawfully complying with FDA regulations.)

3) It is the sale or marketing of >5 mW pointers that the FDA asserts is illegal. The person who could be prosecuted is the seller or marketer. It is NOT the buyer or owner. If FDA issues a recall, the buyer or owner is not legally required to return the laser."

4) When FDA takes action to block imports of pointers or handheld lasers, it is for one of two main reasons:

4A) The laser is over 5 mW and is incorrectly labeled as a “pointer” or is incorrectly marketed for pointing purposes.

4B) The laser does not meet federal standards for its classification (e.g., Class 3B or 4) in one or more areas such as safety features, labeling, documentation, etc. Some violations may be truly unsafe, others may be more bureaucratic paperwork-not-done-right mistakes."

See: http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/fda-proposes-ban-handhelds-5mw-89134.html in particular post #14
Click to expand...

You're totally right. I misunderstood the part apart pointers vs. portable lasers.
 
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Encap

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mbcolangelo said:
You're totally right. I misunderstood the part apart pointers vs. portable lasers.
Click to expand...


Yes FDA has been busy for the first time tightening up on and defining "pointers" .
see: Does FDA regulate these new powerful laser "pointers" and are they hazardous?

and as part of the definition are saying "pointers" fall under "SLA" lasers or "demonstration laser products" per the following:
"Laser pointers are hand-held lasers that are promoted for pointing out objects or locations. Such laser products can meet one of two definitions for laser products. The first is for “surveying, leveling, and alignment laser products” as defined by Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Section 1040.10(b)(39): “Surveying, leveling, or alignment laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for one or more of the following uses:
(i) Determining and delineating the form, extent, or position of a point, body, or area by taking angular measurement.
(ii) Positioning or adjusting parts in proper relation to one another.
(iii) Defining a plane, level, elevation, or straight line.”

Hand-held lasers promoted for entertainment purposes or amusement also meet the second definition, that of “demonstration laser products” as defined by 21 CFR 1040.10(b)(13): “Demonstration laser product means a laser product manufactured, designed, intended, or promoted for purposes of demonstration, entertainment, advertising display, or artistic composition.”

If a laser product is promoted for pointing purposes, either of these definitions can apply."

FDA then adds:
"Laser products promoted for pointing and demonstration purposes are limited to hazard Class IIIa by FDA regulation.
21 CFR 1040.11(b) and 1040.11(c), limit surveying, leveling, and alignment, and demonstration laser products to Class IIIa. This means that pointers are limited to 5 milliwatts output power in the visible wavelength range from 400 to 710 nanometers. There are also limits for any invisible wavelengths and for short pulses. Pointers may not exceed the accessible emission limits of CDRH Class IIIa or IEC1 Class 3R"

Also: "battery-operated, portable laser systems can be sold in the U.S., providing that they fully comply with the standard, are certified and reported, and are not Class IIIb lasers sold or promoted for pointing or amusement purposes."

From: Important Information for Laser Pointer Manufacturers
 
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hakzaw1

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OP-did your search- show you this?

http://laserpointerforums.com/f51/lso-laser-safety-officer-tutorial-88136-2.html

we are close to half way thru the training manual- mid-term exam in the next few days-

ALL the large lasershow companies have one or more LSOs at the very least 'on-staff'

In the class we learn about the duties- you can take the course at a nice discount in Aug on the Monday after the SELEM event ends(Newton NC)- 6 hrs class- 2 more for exam- IIRC ~ $375

@ Greenland- you are mistaken-
an ILDA LSO(w/ FDA 'opertor' variance) will find importing lasers from Canada MUCH easier.
_________

"Right! But this does at least give law enforcement better grounds for issuing tickets or possible arrests to pranksters.
"...

WHAT WORLD ARE YOU IN--tickets??- maybe in some very minor cases- I would for sure kiss that laser bye-bye- and most convictions come w/ a no lasers ever owned in the future deal..


NOT LIKELY
- best you do some reading at laserpointersafety.com- INTENTIONALLY lasing aircraft is a federal crime- (no 'tickets) up to 10 years and 10,000$fines- fed time is 'straight time' btw- no getting out early ever.

we ALL need to forget the word 'PRANK' it no longer applies- like saying calling in a bomb scare or saying something about a gun at the airport is a 'prank'

- lasing people ( for real or even if they just 'say' you did) will not go well when the cops arrive. be smart & just dont lase outdoors anywhere near the 'city'- its not worth it and every time a police report goes in it harms ALL OF US. not a prank-

BTW- there is a $5000 reward for info leading to conviction of laser on aircraft incident.

update--FBI has 'upped' the reward to 10K$ if a conviction happens
 
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hakzaw1

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Encap

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hakzaw1 said:
Not wanting to necro but-- the OP never made another post nor even returned here--
Interesting point Hak--he probably decided not to get a laser after realizing what he needed to do to comply withj Illinois law, so he never came back to LPF---I would guess?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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