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Pushing the envelope of the duty/rest cycle'

hakzaw1

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My friends in China tell me that laserisits in their country
seem, in general, to be more concerned with a handhelds
ability to run without out need of a rest cycle.. somewhat
like LPM readings, at some point in time it really resembles
a pissing contest or perhaps like a Corvette, the no-rest-needed lasersabre is an indicator of manlyess..

I do not need to take a poll on how age is a factor, likewise the facination with burning, popping and setting various things afire- I think I know what Freud would say. With maturity these thing become less important- and I welcome all other schools of thought- IHMO there is no right/correct or wrong/dumb thought processes here--whatever makes you happy and does not make others sad.

BUT all other arguments and thoughts aside, I will think anyone spending hard-earned cash on a laser would agree while some makers claim no rest needed it could come back on you--We do know really always know the cause of death many times when they eventually die..and that is often after the warranty has expired.


So unless you do not care about shortening your laser's lifespan or have so much extra cash to throw away, I think most VETS here wll agree- BE NICE to your lasers- show proper respect and the warranty be damned.... what kind of pleasure does on get sending back the laser that, he may have very well killed by not being NICE to it.?

Why would anyone do something so pointless that, if you really think about it, - is not very good for the health of the maker of your laser either. When profit margins are slim every return-refund-replace and all the related shipping and labor costs can not only drive the prices up on US, but this may also make the maker suffer or even close down,,

TBA My rule of thumb if the laser has a 4 min on 2 min off-recommended by the maker-- I go with 2 min on and 2 off-& any time the front feels overly warm- its time for a break-- c'mon thats why we own more than one- & of course none of us is using a stop watch and we only guess, hopefuly erring only towards a longer rest and shorter duty.

I use due diligence in regard to possible damage- being round and gravity always being a constant bitch(the fall did not hurt me but that sudden stop was a 'MF')lasers roll off surfaces and that my friend is NOT covered by the warranty-- if a laser is sold to me as waterproff to 10 meters I treat it as a water RESISTANT laser and only take out when its raining if i MUST. & a so called shock proof laser needs to be treated at the very least like one that is just shock RESISTANT.


So even when using a tripod or mic clamp ( why not use both?) never rely 100% on it.

Do not expect another person to treat as if it was their 300$ that paid for that puppy 'cause it wasn't.

An unloaded gun cannot fire- and a laser stored without batteries or safety pin or tailcap cannot lase. (I need not say anymore)

Like guns lasers are facinating to the kiddos and also like guns they will look-touch- mess with or even handle when they think they will not get caught. Its the owner's duty to store properly. And how much you can trust your children's friends is at best a crap shoot. (no pun intended)

And the untrained have no clue what a duty rest cycle even is.
 
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Cyparagon

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I have seen NO science or measurements of any kind on this subject except my own. I have no reason to believe that leaving it on for 1 minute then off for 10 seconds for example has any effect on lifespan at all.

I've left several pointers on for hours at a time with no issue. If case temp never rises more than 15C above ambient, why would this be somehow BAD for the unit?

As far as I can tell, someone just made it up (maybe for a higher power unit), and it's been copy pasta from then on.
 
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IsaacT

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I think hak is mainly referring to high powered handhelds, and I wouldn't doubt that some of the case temps they can reach are not good for the diode. I treat my laser a lot like my computer: if it is getting warm, I take notice. If it might be a comfort to my hands on a winter's night, I let it take a seat. If it is very hot, I turn it off immediately(this has happened once or twice during beamshot sessions).

Very good point hak! +1.22 to you sir :beer: I also agree on the point of safely storing your lasers. Children have none of the worries adults do, so precautions are not on their mind. They are only used to the safe environments/safe toys they have always had. Why should this thing be any different?

EDIT: YES! Bumped you 2! :D
 
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Antharak

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Hey I use a stopwatch! mostly just with my 3W+ 445nm, which does get warm and as there is close to 1/2" of aluminum around the diode I think that the diode is getting pretty hot for the outside to be very warm.
Good point on storage, you just never know who may gain access to them, lasers in one place, batteries in another. Safety first always, as the damage a laser can do to one's eyes is forever.
:beer:
 
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hakzaw1

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Thanks to all above-- and yes I am talking about expensive pro handhelds and not at all about 5$ pointers- While it a good thing that some makers have tried to build handhelds that require no rest cycle i still stand on my position about kinder 'treatment' ---irregardless about a shorter lifespan- in the long run.. just because JL has a video of a 800mW 532 running for 25 minutes I think doing that would be reckless at best- it not something that is under 'normal' situations, needed-

I suggest we leave no rest use to the 'test to death' tests -- I have found it much better to err on the side of safety and careful use. JL spent much time and $$ of R&D with active cooling tecs,- fans, bigger HSs, etc and none was productive- the extra cooling caused other issues, shortened the run time before a re-charge and not cost effective.
BUT thats just me and my $$-- its just nice to know that If i accidently run a laser too long i have a better chance of no damage- and would never run longer than I needed. (on purpose)

hak


just sayin'....
 
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Speedy78

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The only laser I will ever run continuous is my LG Hercules (My gas laser don't count, most of them stay on for hours). But that has active forced air cooling and is only a 325. I'm scared to run most of my others past 30 seconds. I just have no use for 1W+ for more than a few seconds at a time.
 

IsaacT

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[quote"=hakzaw1"]just because JL has a video of a 800mW 532 running for 25 minutes I think doing that would be reckless at best-
And running a 1W diode at 3W isn't reckless?[/QUOTE]

Hakzaw1 is saying that running a 800mW 532nm Handheld laser for 25 minutes straight is a reckless way to actually treat your laser. 25 minute test is nice for showing off how much something can handle in extreme conditions, but to do those things in real life is reckless because there is no need, and it only serves to heat up the assembly causing risk on the expensive system.
 

Cyparagon

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but to do those things in real life is reckless because there is no need.
So you're saying running a 1W diode at 3W is a necessity?

Hakzaw1 is saying that running a 800mW 532nm Handheld laser for 25 minutes straight is a reckless way to actually treat your laser.
So when someone says "abide by the duty cycle," they actually mean "pick a random number to follow, but only do it for pointers... and only do it for high powers... and only do it for green"?

WHAT IS THE MESSAGE HERE?
 

hakzaw1

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what is your message?^^

Mine is very simple BE NICE to your lasers- if you want them to last

or NOT-- if you dont care about that.. hk
 

Cyparagon

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"Being nice" evidently means something different to everyone here. If anything is "being mean," it's driving a 1W diode at 3W. I don't see why that's okay, but running them longer than some chinese made-up number is not okay.
 

benmwv

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I turn them off when they get hot, back on when they have cooled off a bit. Duty cycles are usually some arbitrary number to protect the builder from liability. If it dies then they can say "Oh you didn't follow the duty cycle did you?" Honestly, who is going to time out 60 seconds on and 90 seconds off or whatever it may be.

I've run my cheapo c6 445nm laser to the point where the host was very hot (uncomfortable, almost enough to burn) and that means the heatsink was hotter, the module hotter than that, and the actual diode still hotter. (because of all the thermal resistances from diode to outside) NO adverse affects. Of course I wouldn't do that to all my builds, I just don't really care about this laser. Because of that I learned that they can take heat quite well.
 

ARG

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I've run my cheapo c6 445nm laser to the point where the host was very hot (uncomfortable, almost enough to burn) and that means the heatsink was hotter, the module hotter than that, and the actual diode still hotter. (because of all the thermal resistances from diode to outside) NO adverse affects. Of course I wouldn't do that to all my builds, I just don't really care about this laser. Because of that I learned that they can take heat quite well.
Ditto, by accident. I forgot about it while doing an LPM graph (20 mins or so) and it got too hot to touch. No adverse effects.
 

hakzaw1

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Help me out here- I have no idea what you are talking about on this 1w 3w diode stuff
you did not see anything by me on this afaik.

I started this discussionn because many Jl owners (not you) had seen videos by Carol from JL on youtube of JL lasers running on a meter for long periods and simply wanted to give my personal take on this. I dont know how much more simple i can make this- I say be nice to your JLs,, just my two cents. My interest is soley about happy buyers of JETLASERS.
The difference between Carol and our JL buyers is she did not pay for these and we do pay for them. Thus we have an investment to protect and i feel we will have less fails if everybody treats their Jl with kindness- thats all.. nothing more-plz just let it go.

thanks

hak
 
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DTR

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"Being nice" evidently means something different to everyone here. If anything is "being mean," it's driving a 1W diode at 3W. I don't see why that's okay, but running them longer than some chinese made-up number is not okay.
To be more accurate it is running a 1.7W diode @ 3W+. I do agree that there is real a lack of understanding what running them @ 3W+ will do to the expected life of the diode.
 
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I'd also like to add in addition to hak's original statements, that you should also be kind to your drivers. They are the single most important factor (well in my opinion at least) in keeping your diode alive. Heat sink them well and don't let the components overheat!
 




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