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Politics and General Debates Thread

paul1598419

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Yeah, George Bush fed comedians straight lines for 8 long years. It is far more funny now than it was then.
 



RedCowboy

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What somebody didn't do proves nothing except mass shooters like soft targets such as gun free zones, it's a fact that the places with the strongest " gun control " have the highest crime and citizens in New York and California are engaging in constitutional carry, that is they carry anyway and if I am ever on a jury where someone had to save their own life with a gun and that person is charged with a weapons violation based on an unconstitutional State law you better believe I won't find them guilty unless our Constitution has been amended drastically changing our 2A rights......... actually be it that self defense is a God given right I doubt that I could ever find anyone in the wrong for defending themselves regardless of any law they may have violated in the course of doing so.

 
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paul1598419

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Texas has very lax carry laws, but El Paso was still stopped by the police. And conflating gun control laws with crime proves nothing. People who use tampons are the only ones to get ovarian cancer. See a link here? Correlation does not prove causality.
 

RedCowboy

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Texas has very lax carry laws, but El Paso was still stopped by the police. And conflating gun control laws with crime proves nothing. People who use tampons are the only ones to get ovarian cancer. See a link here? Correlation does not prove causality.
That proves nothing except there are people in Texas from that day who now wish they had been armed and no matter how many laws get passed it won't matter because NEWS FLASH criminals and crazy people don't obey the law.

The 2nd amendment is not just about self defense in public or hunting but defense from a tyrannical government and it doesn't take a revolution it only takes an armed citizenry to keep our voice and demand justice and the radical left knows this.
Just look at history, Hitler disarmed the German citizens before he started rounding up Jews and we all know what happened next, but it's not going to happen here.
 
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paul1598419

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While it is true that among the thousands of people around the shooter in El Paso, none of the gun carriers have come forward to admit they ran, but what would you expect? It is an open carry state. It was the action of police officers tasked with our protection that brought that to its close. That is often the case and well, it should be. When George Zimmerman was acquitted of shooting Trayvon Martin, then proceeded to brag and sold the weapon it made people sick, myself included. The Florida "stand your ground " law seems to be an end run around the need for an actual deadly threat to use deadly force. You could all of a sudden just claim you were in fear and that gave you the pass to shoot anyone as long as they weren't one of the good people. But, unarmed people shouldn't be shot and killed and there was a time when that would not be accepted, though in the south, and especially for all white juries, that has been going on for longer than I've been alive.
 

RedCowboy

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As I understand it Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman and that was quite some time ago, but people fend off attacks all the time in the places where they are able

In Orange county Ca. a thug with a knife killed 4 people just recently, Aug 8th just 9 days ago, did those 4 people not have a right to defend themselves, apparently not in Ca. and that makes me sick.

If someone runs up and starts slashing at you will you call the police, will they save you ?
 
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Shakenawake

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I have heard that some robbers later interviewed said they robbed people in gun free zones because they knew it was safer for them.

I am what many would call radical left though. And I'm pro second amendment
 

Alaskan

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Yeah, George Bush fed comedians straight lines for 8 long years. It is far more funny now than it was then.
The 2nd Bush, as a president, came off as an idiot, he wasn't well suited for the role. Back then, I voted republican, today I vote for the kind of leadership which suits me best, regardless of party. I don't see anyone better to vote for now, so sticking with what we have.
 

paul1598419

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Trayvon Martin was a black teenager who was approached by Zimmerman who proceeded to question and accuse him for being in the wrong place. Zimmerman claimed to be the neighborhood watch, though he was a member of one. Yes, my understanding is the teenager mouthed off to him. If it had been me at that age I would have likely done so too. Zimmerman's defense was, of course he was attacked, but that was not substantiated by the other teens there at the time. So, you had black teenagers word against a white adult in front of a white jury. Even if a teenager did try to approach or even strike Zimmerman, last time I looked that wouldn't be a death penalty offense. That didn't happen though, because Zimmerman shot him before anything actually happened to the white man.
 

paul1598419

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Yes, that is sad, but saying that this could only happen in a gun restrictive state is total nonsense. It would have happened anywhere as described in your own report as the assailant didn't make provocative gestures, but methodically killed people at random and then fled. He even disarmed an individual giving him a gun to use. So, the gun carrying public seemed to help advance his murderous spree. In any event, he had a gun when arrested. People who hide knives and stab one or two persons and flee are difficult to defend against even if you are armed. I would not conflate this tragedy with restrictive guns carry laws as you could have easily been a victim in these circumstances even with your gun.


Shell employees at the Monaca, PA plant were told that they had to sit and listen to a Trump speech or give up their time and a half overtime pay for that day. They were told that they could not boo or disrupt the event, while Trump railed against windmills claiming, falsely, that they kill birds Trump has claimed time and again that when people have protested him they are all paid to be there and are not protesting out of their own concern. This seemed ironic to me as Trump, unlike other presidents, is picking the winners of the economy. This time oil and gas. And the crowds are paid to be there and to act respectful.
 
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RedCowboy

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I never said it could ONLY happen in a gun restrictive state, STOP MAKING SHIT UP PAUL

He disarmed a cop/security guard and I thought you said they were the answer, looks like the trained people aided the bad guy HUH ?

This is proof that more armed citizens are needed because the trained armed people you rely on can't always save you and didn't save the 4 dead citizens who were struck down, those 4 people deserved to be able to have a fighting chance and if others around them could have helped stop the attacker others would not have died.

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The California Bureau of Security & Investigative Services registers the state's security guards and proprietary private security officers and all security officers in California go through a background check and have state mandated training requirements and security guards who carry a gun in California need additional state mandated training, a hard to get California firearms permit and baton permit, they are also required to participate in ongoing training.

The trained professional in this case failed and allowed the bad guy to get his gun, the more armed citizens in a case like this the better because your trained professional was not enough, I wonder are you really in fear or guns paul or is this just partisan for you ? Do you really think a baby days from birth should be killed on demand but an adult person shouldn't be able to defend their life ?

How much is your socialism dream worth paul and how much do you expect everyone else to give up ? It seems that you don't care about anything else except seeing everyone live the same life, no rich or poor just proletariat, but with socialism you still have the bourgeoisie.


So let me get this straight paul, do you think that only the authorities should be armed ? Do you think the trained authorities always do right ?

In one breath you talk about how screwed up cops are and in another you say only cops should carry guns, I think it's just partisan with you paul, if the left is down on guns you carry that water and support armed cops and if the left is down on cops you carry that water, you ignore facts and tout spin because I assume you want everyone to get the same pay no matter what work they do or none at all, you don't want to see other people live a better life than you and that's all that matters huh ?

Our freedom of speech and to defend our very lives gives us value, it's at the core of American freedom.
Our government is supposed to be of the people, by the people and for the people and not an entity of it's own but that's what it's becoming.
Not everyone wants government to manage our lives cradle to grave, I think most don't but too many people think they can have their socialism cake and eat it too, but that's not how it works, when you are willing to trade freedom for security you will end up with neither.

 
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paul1598419

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The answer is never going to be more guns in the hands of ordinary Americans walking the street. Somehow you missed what I said about someone with a knife attacking just one or two people and running off. And, in the end, it WAS the police who apprehended the the knife wielding thug, not a security guard with a gun or any other ordinary citizen. And, no you can't paint all Democrats and Independents as being the far left, no matter how much you and Trump may want that. He seems to be fighting the "squad" instead of people actually running for president. No one wants to make everyone make the same amount of money or any of the other communist ideas Trump has claimed. Yes, the police do have a bad reputation when it comes to killing minorities and that needs to be dealt with, but in the end, with these mass shootings, they are the ones who prevail.

It is also noteworthy that Trump in an act of pure assholery took many animals off the endangered species act recently. Yes, the government agency that brought us back the bald eagle, the Yellowstone grisly bear, the peregrine falcon, the humpback whale and many dozens of other animals is now not being enforced. The people in the west like seeing the bald eagles and the Yellowstone grisly bear and people in Florida like having the manatee back from the edge of extinction. But, in a law suit brought by the indigenous tribes in Wyoming the grisly bear is back on the list. Liz Cheney, daughter to the ex vice president who gave us torture and was very on board for two wars, tweeted that the selfish Indians have dishonored the life that westerners have come to love. Yes, she REALLY said that. But, Trump, in his defense does think that oil and gas companies can't drill wherever they want because someone finds a "frog" there.
 
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Alaskan

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I am very unhappy with Google's desire and active ongoing work to influence the upcoming election against Trump through a manipulation of information flow. When one of Google's executives made a statement in reference to their ability to affect outcomes, I understood her to say breaking up Google would be very stupid because it would only make things worse for everyone, because small companies couldn't accomplish what they can as a big company with so many resources. In other words, I understood her to say if they were broke up into smaller companies, they could not be as effective manipulating us. Duh, that's why they should probably be broken up.
 
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RedCowboy

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I am very unhappy with Google's desire and active ongoing work to influence the upcoming election against Trump through a manipulation of information flow. When one of Google's executives made a statement in reference to their ability to affect outcomes, I understood her to say breaking up Google would be very stupid because it would only make things worse for everyone, because small companies couldn't accomplish what they can as a big company with so many resources. In other words, I understood her to say if they were broke up into smaller companies, they could not be as effective manipulating us. Duh, that's why they should probably be broken up.


 
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