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Politics and General Debates Thread

Shakenawake

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I heard trump tweeted that people who hate him shouldn't cash their check but I would argue his supporters shouldn't cash theirs since it's evil, bad socialism. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps. I love watching the sychophants at faux news struggle to keep up with trump's changing rhetoric and edicts. One day it's a democratic hoax to try to impeach trump and the next it's a serious pandemic. For the record I disagree with Pelosi's actions, but republicans are using this to their advantage too. Bail out the very corporations that just did enormous stock buybacks, IE, socialism for the rich.

 
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RedCowboy

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I heard trump tweeted that people who hate him shouldn't cash their check but I would argue his supporters shouldn't cash theirs since it's evil, bad socialism. Pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps. I love watching the sychophants at faux news struggle to keep up with trump's changing rhetoric and edicts. One day it's a democratic hoax to try to impeach trump and the next it's a serious pandemic. For the record I disagree with Pelosi's actions, but republicans are using this to their advantage too. Bail out the very corporations that just did enormous stock buybacks, IE, socialism for the rich.
You need business to employ people so by bailing out business you support people, that's the idea.
It's similar to " Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, but teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. "

Trump may not be perfect..............but Biden is losing what's left of his mind, I just don't see Biden being able to do the job, at all.

UBI and Medicare for all sounds good to me, sign me up..........just keep your government hands off my house, my savings and my guns.............so here's the problem, there is no half way socialism, if you are going to take the carrot your going to get whipped and made to pull the wagon.

If your going to accept cradle to grave hands on care then youre going to get told what to do, where to live, where to work and what you get........and what you don't get.

This has all been done before, capitalism is better than socialism if you love your freedom................ but if you're happy being a farm animal then socialism may be your thing, but even when things are bad it's the chance to work hard and get ahead that keeps the American dream alive, and yes things had become tougher, kids were not expected to do as well as their parents..........but Trump was bringing it back until this virus, however in time this too shall pass.

Maybe we can find some balance between socialism/government oversight and capitalism/freedom.............but our government that you want to run everything and guarantee us UBI and healthcare can't even hash out a dam simple disaster check, so...............


I expect we will see a lot more covid19 testing and a lot more people who get this virus and don't have any real symptoms, we will likely see those who are old/sick staying home while those who have recovered going back to work long before this virus is gone or we have a vaccine.
 

Shakenawake

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Oh I agree about Biden. I have decided I wont be voting for him. If he made even a single policy concession to Bernie I might feel differently but at this point I almost feel like trump is further left than biden. Biden doesnt represent me at all. If trump ends the war in afganistan by November, I might vote for him. Mostly as a middle finger to the DNC for consistently shitting on us progressives. If we keep capitulating and voting blus no matter who, they'll never listen to us and the policies we advocate

I would prefer a system with the best ideas from both socialism and capitalism. I'm currently reading "the new confessions of an economic hitman". It's very eye opening regarding our brand of "capitalism" which essentially amounts to manifest destiny mixed with american exceptionalism, economic imperialism. making deals with the devil and selling our soul and principals to the highest bidder. Just finished the part about our history with Saudi arabia, much of which I already knew. Bad stuff. Us turning a blind eye to their terror funding. Bushes and Bin Ladens in the carlyle group. Everyone should read it
 

paul1598419

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How can anyone believe anything Trump says? His narrative changes daily. And he holds news conferences where he says, "I never said that" when asked about prior narratives he has pushed. His mind wanders more than anyone I've ever seen in this office. It really depends on what he is thinking in the moment as to what may come out of his mouth. He is getting his ass kicked by Biden in all the polls. That gives me hope.

Democrats had a problem with a half trillion dollar slush fund that Trump said he would have oversight on. That was addressed in the House bill and republicans in the Senate relented and now there is Congressional oversight on this money. Lets see how much Trump takes for himself. He does own hotels. (n)

A few days ago I was talking with my daughter over the phone. Washington State is locked down everywhere and the police are pulling people over to see if they are out for the approved reasons, doctor's appointments, pharmacy visits or groceries. I am not complaining about this as I see it as a necessary contrivance to try to hold the rates of infection down before this absolutely overwhelms our capacity to care for those affected. I am very concerned that many red states are not taking this as seriously as it needs to be and this will, in turn, cause many more infections and deaths. In the US right now there are more than 53,000 cases of infected people with more than 753 deaths, even though we are still testing far below where we should be at this time. This virus doesn't respect borders or people by race, ethnicity, or stations in life. It will infect and kill anyone without regard to who they may be.
 
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paul1598419

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Did anyone besides myself see the Fox interview of Dan Patrick, Lt. Governor of Texas, ask all Americans if it would not be better for all of us if the old just died to keep markets from losing any more value? What kind of monster puts economic gains ahead of lives? He said, as a senior citizen himself that he was "all in" if it would provide a better economy for his children and grandchildren. Then blow your brains out Dan.....provided you have any. I'm betting you'll live to regret saying that.
 

paul1598419

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Today it has been reported in the Washington Post and New York Times that republicans in red states are trying to shut down critical services provided by Planned Parenthood. Texas is one of these states. It would seem that while republicans are trying to demonize Democrats by saying they have been trying to introduce abortion funds into the $2.2 trillion bill, they have actually been using this pandemic to try to restrict Planned Parenthood. All this as abortions have been legal everywhere in the country for the past 47 years.
 

paul1598419

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Just finished watching another 90 minute press conference with Donald Trump. He seems to have, at this moment anyway, changed the way he is talking about this outbreak. But, during the press asking questions he reverts to his old ways of calling them all "fake news" and denying things he actually said just last Tuesday. I had to go looking for his complete quote, but he said he wanted the governors of states to be appreciative of him and if they didn't he wouldn't talk to them. Today he said that he doesn't talk to them, but Mike Pence does and he has never told Pence not to talk with them. This is in stark conflict with what he said on Tuesday where he said that Pence shouldn't talk with the governor of our state, Inslee, or "that woman in Michigan" calling her a "half" Whitmer. He has just been far behind in his response to this virus as many governors have said they still don't have the personal protective equipment they need or the numbers of tests needed to get a good understanding of where we stand with this outbreak. I guess we got what American's asked for. I hope he doesn't try to politicize this much more as it really isn't all about Donald Trump or his narcissism.

He said today that we are far ahead of other countries in the amount of testing we are doing, but both South Korea and Italy have done 3 times as much per capita than we have so far. I hope we get to the amount of testing needed to get ahead of this, but we aren't there yet.
 

Shakenawake

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I saw a faux news segment where an older guy was saying sacrificing the elderly to this virus would be worth it if it got the economy back on track. If trump makes that call and thousands die as a result, I never wanna hear the right talk about "government death panels" deciding who should live or die ever again
 

RedCowboy

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Want what ever you want to want but don't be surprised if that leaves you wanting too.

Tough decisions have to be made and people do die, 7452 people die in America every day from normal causes mostly age related.

People have to be smart enough to see the forest through the trees, such as if people going back to work appears to cause more infection deaths but the effect of not supporting critical infrastructure would leave millions to starve to death in the long run then what looks like a 1st level obvious choice actually isn't.

In other words it's not as simple as you think, it's like saying " I don't want anything to die, not even an animal or a plant " then everyone starves to death in time, so even though it may seem that not killing anything is the right thing, the truth is we must do what's necessary of pay the price that comes further down the road.

If we don't have a productive economy producing goods and services then all the trillions is replacement income won't buy anything needed to live on.
Shutting everything down is a temporary measure meant to slow the spread and buy time to build up supplies and equipment to deal with the sickest people, it's not meant to fix the situation completely and many people are not making the most of it by staying at home.

This virus is not going to bring in socialism no matter how much some may distort the choices that have to be made, closing everything down is not sustainable, it can only be temporary.
 
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Shakenawake

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I understand that, I'm not saying it's easy or simple. Trump cares more about the stock market than about human live though I think, he loves to hang his hat on how well it and the economy is supposedly doing. Or was. I suspected all along it was a house of cards. Turns out when 83% of a tax cut goes to the top 1%, they do more stock buybacks. I saw trump saying the other day that this bailout money shouldn't be used for stock buybacks but looking into it the language is weak

Seems this outbreak has brought plenty of socialism already. As usual, crumbs for the average person and slush funds for the rich.

I still think Trump will beat Biden. Trump would have to really bungle stuff badly from here to lose I think. Probably over 100,000 dead and maybe Biden could win. Not that I want that or think we would be much better with Biden. I dont want a president with cognitive decline
 

RedCowboy

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This virus won't change the divide in America although liberal cities will get hit the hardest, but I don't want liberals to die, I want them to get mugged in their own gun free zones when there's no work months from now.
 

RedCowboy

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I have my huben k1 with me just in case shit gets crazy and I have to shoot an animal for food or defend myself. Not great for protracted firefights, admittedly. Hope it doesnt get anywhere near that bad
That's a cool bullpup airgun, I have owned several in the past but use my ruger 10/22 for small game today, still there are several I would like to have.



I like Paul, but I sure dislike his views on a lot of things, seems we are opposites but I'm the one with the tin hat!

It's ok to explore the possibilities of things known and unknown and it's easy to build one hypothesis on top of another hypothesis until you find yourself thinking a lot about something that's a lot further from known fact than where you started, so at times we have to stop and try to disprove our own beliefs, that's a good test..........but people like paul are so sure that their views are the only correct views and doing/saying anything to achieve their agenda based on those views is somehow justified, but it's really often very hypocritical.

How can you demand your freedom to take dope is a right and her ability to have an abortion is a right but my freedom to defend my life isn't a right ? How about Freedom is a right for everyone and freedom comes with risks, otherwise in time and a blue zillion laws none of us will have any rights......so the concessions are we will limit everything, them limit it some more.........how about we stop blaming everyone else and stop defending our side of the government...........I do see value in the two party system to balance things out, but our bill of rights should never be sacrificed and government needs desperately to be held accountable especially when they attack our rights, government shouldn't be wasting time and money on a phone call impeachment, they should be working to prevent a killer virus from spreading because we only have a finite amount of time and effort.
 
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