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Politics and General Debates Thread

RedCowboy

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paul1598419

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Thank you. You can see from these graphs that Reagan had a debt to GDP ratio of 4.1%, while Obama who had the worst recession since the Great Depression had a ration of just 5.8%. Considering the near collapse of the economy, not bad at all. Another thing your graph leaves out is time before Eisenhower. The ratio in 1946 was more than double that of any president previous or since. America was born in debt and has managed to stay there ever since. It was Clinton, however, who gave us a budget surplus, something no republican has ever done and Trump is slated to become of the winner of the recent debit to GDP ratio.

It is interesting to note that Trump has backed off his increased tariffs against China, saying he will revisit them December 15th. In a comment made today he said it was because he didn't want them to impact American goods during the holiday season. The first admission that his trade war is impacting Americans and not just the Chinese.
 

RedCowboy

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Trump could crap gold bars and send everyone a box full and you would find fault with it and make excuses why Obama didn't do any better, it's a waste of time with you paul your mind is made up and no facts will ever change it, you want socialism because you think its better somehow maybe better for you ?
But you're wrong and it's been proven time and time again, socialism fails, we need 4 more years of Trump.


Chris, as you know or should know, the Charter School system is the republican agenda solution to defunding public schools in America. It is past inflammatory to lay the gangs in American cities at the feet of Democrats because of the push back against republican efforts to defund public schools. Many republicans would like to take this money and use it to offset the tuition they spend to send their lily white children to private schools.

And, in the same breath, to use Row v. Wade as a talking point for loss of black lives smacks of the disingenuous way republicans frame these arguments. Life begins at birth, not when some sperm meets and egg. This shows the utter lack of empathy that exists among republicans for the lives of black people in America. And to use some right wing black individual to promote this message is also disingenuous.

Yes, there are 8% of blacks who support Trump, but that only shows that blacks are not all of one mind as Trump would like us to believe.

Did anyone see the "Weekly" last night showing how social media has destroyed many places, most notably Brazil, especially YouTube which uses algorithms to push hateful speech and even young children's videos together, if they are sexual or suggestive, for the gratification of older men? This is a continuation of what was used during the 2016 presidential election in America, but this time it is done only to keep people watching so they can get the most money for their advertising. Disgraceful!
Good God man you are way out there, where do I begin ?
You can't put words into Trumps mouth, just because some blacks support him does not mean he thinks they are all of one mind, he never said that.
Lilly white ? racist much ?

Life does not begin at birth just because you say so, is it ok t kill a baby 6moths old, 6 months in the womb ? It's still human life in either case but I agree that women should have a choice during the 1st and 2nd trimester but not the 3rd and a baby can live outside the womb at 6 months.

Normally I would expect you to be on the side of life/people but you are 100% partisan, yes I believe in freedom and a woman's right to choose but 3rd trimester I can also see why people get upset, so where is your sense of fair play and compromise ?

Is a 6 month old fetus not human life ?
 
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paul1598419

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The socialism argument is a republican talking point. Democrats are not communists, but it sounds good if you call them that, especially when you have someone like Trump in the White House. Anyone else, a monkey included, would have a better economy now than Trump. Just on his backtrack from the September 1 tariff increase the stock market made 2% today. Trump passed a tax cut, "the hugest in history", that 85% of which goes to the top 1% of earners. In case you're wondering, the quotes are Trump's words. He has spent much of his political capital trying to build his wall on the border with Mexico. Not one foot of which has been built, so far. My point is ANYONE could do a better job in this economy.

No one claims that late term abortions are good or even legal, unless they are necessary to save the life of the mother or the fetus has no chance to be viable at birth. That is why there are so very few late term abortions. many are for babies found to be acephalic, or to have no brain at all. Those abortions only happen at rates less than 1%. You would rather tell a pregnant woman who has learned that her fetus has no brain that she MUST carry it to term because it offends your sensibilities not to? I know that evangelicals and catholics, because of the church's doctrine, disapprove of abortion at any term. And catholics are even against birth control. But, abortion is a legal procedure and has been so for more than 45 years. I would not personally be in favor of an abortion for an woman I was in a relationship with, but I do believe it is her body and that decision should rest with her and not politicians or religious people. They have the right to decide for themselves.
 

RedCowboy

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Just because Trumps wall is replacing dilapidated fencing does not mean it's not there, this is what you liberals do with spin, who says the wall must be built on virgin earth to count, looks like a wall to me, also construction takes time as well as getting the best deal and there has been non stop legal resistance at every turn but just very recently much funds have been cleared by SCOTUS so it's full speed ahead.



 
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paul1598419

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Talk about spin. This was repair funds that were already paid for before Trump even took office. They have repaired a portion of the fencing that was already there. As I said before, not one foot of his Wall has been built so far. You want to count existing fencing that was already there and approved for repair before Trump took office? It makes nice spin, but it is still ridiculous.
 

RedCowboy

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Of all the dem hopefuls Biden looks the best, but he's just not good enough.

 

paul1598419

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Funny. Trump promised a GDP of 3,4,5%, but we still have the 2+% GDP that we had when Obama left office. In fact is is basically the same as it has been for the last 10 years. Goooo, Trump?!

There's nothing like Fox for Trump supporters. If you watch any other news channel, you will actually get the truth.
 

Shakenawake

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Bernie supporter here, although I really really really like tulsi gabbard a lot too.

We need Medicare for all. It will be cheaper than our current system. Why? Because more of the dollars will go to care and less to the mafia like middlemen that are the insurance companies and also because drug prices will be lower if they are forced to the bargaining table as opposed to the way it is now, them charging whatever they want. Just look into the cost of just about any medication in the US as opposed to other countries. Over 30000 people per year die due to not having access to healthcare.

Love that tulsi called out trump for his support of Saudi Arabia and by extension, terrorists. Their genocide in Yemen that we are assisting with. Funny how during his campaign trump said that Saudi Arabia did 9/11 and now he is selling them billions of dollars in weapons and violating the emoluments clause by taking money from them via his hotels. You want to impeach trump, theres a reason. Never mind obstructing when there was no initial crime anyway, that's a waste of time and trump would very likely look better after anyway. Not to mention, mike pence is who we'd end up with.

Biden getting the nomination is the worst case scenario IMO, he is basically Hillary 2.0 and there are tons of good reasons to hate her.

Kinda tired of socialism and communism being conflated. Tired of hearing it has never worked anywhere. Um, hello? France, England Australia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, etc. Tired of hearing that Democrats want open borders. This isn't true. The closest any come is julian Castro who wants to make illegal crossing no longer a misdemeanor. But here's what faux news wont tell you: it would still be a civil offense that can cause deportation. Only difference is kids wouldnt be getting separated from their parants and put in cages and even trump has claimed to be in favor of that.

I'm an issue guy not a tribalist team player. I won't hesitate to criticize Democrat and Republican alike, or offer praise, if the situation warrants.

Trump was kinda right about all the fake news. They're all bought and paid for by big pharma, and the military industrial complex. Faux news however has got to be the worst, most intellectually dishonest and disingenuous outlet I have seen.

Here's some proof:

 

Encap

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Something for nothing never has and never will exist, despite politicians creating the illusion that if you vote for them it could come true that the government will become the wealthy parent you never had.
Is a bad joke politicians play over and over again on populations of people too stupid to know any better that buy the daydream not seeing it is doomed from the get/go. If politicians lips are moving they are lying.
 
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Shakenawake

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Maybe. Honest politicians dont say something for nothing. Not Bernie. He explains how these social programs will be payed for.

Allow me to justify, or attempt to, my support for universal healthcare and education.

Education first.

1. most people are in support of k-12 as it currently stands. Why would we arbitrarily draw the line at high school when clearly more is needed to succeed in life?

2. I have read that the program that puts people who join the military through college was found to generate more tax revenue from those prior soldiers after they graduate and enter whatever field than it cost to educate them. That being the case, why not extend the idea to all Americans? I know I know, initial costs where the benefits are a ways off are tough, but, ultimately, do we not reap what we sow?

3. Better educated and informed people make better informed decisions. Pretty simple, which leads me to my next point.

I have a suspicion that one reason many on the right are against public funded education is the fact that there is a correlation between higher levels of education and being more left leaning. I'm sure their knee jerk response would be to claim that this is because colleges have become some kind of breeding ground for looney liberal snowflakes with their purple hair and gender studies etc. I submit that this is not really the case for the vast majority of the correlation. So the more people are educated, the less support the right will have, because they are less likely to support policies that are against their interests. I think a quote attributed to David Rockefeller was that he wanted a nation of workers not a nation of thinkers. Or as George Carlin. Put it:


Now on to healthcare. What is a person who has lost everything and for whom things are going very badly, but who happens to be in good health, likely to say? "At least I have my health" good health is the foundation of human wellbeing. Furthermore, sick people aren't very productive. Being healthy is the bare minimum foundation for a good shot at success and a happy life. Every other developed nation has some form of single payer system, and the healthcare in the US is not only among the most expensive, but also the lowest ranking among these developed nations. Medical Bills are a leading cause of bankruptcy in the US, something unheard of in single payer countries. Fun fact: Obama care was actually a right wing idea, it came from the heritage foundation, a right wing think tank and is virtually identical to "Romneycare". I dont like it because it gave the health insurance companies free reign to make money hand over fist and gave rise to such absurd ideas as insurance for your insurance, where you buy insurance that will cover your often $5000 deductible so that you can then actually use your health insurance. Under Medicare for all, you could be treated at any hospital and not be limited to certain doctors as so many are. Sure taxes would be higher, but the cost would be overall less, as you will no longer be paying the private tax that is health insurance premiums and deductibles. At least one study has shown that over (if memory serves) a 5 year period, Medicare for all will be a few trillion dollars cheaper than our current system. We can't afford not to do it.


I cant help but notice whenever a policy is proposed that would benefit the average person, all we hear from the right is "how are we gonna pay for it", but when it's something like starting another war, like with Iran, the question never arises. Maybe we should finish up some of our existing wars before we start another? Just a thought. Hell, the war in Afghanistan will be eligible for a gold watch here in a few years. There are soldiers being sent there who were not yet born when it started. But I digress, foreign policy is a whole other can of worms, and I have already passed the TLDR point for many I am sure.
 

Encap

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Obviously you buy the daydreams hook, line, and sinker--keep drinking washed up Bernie Sanders ' utopia'daydream Kool Aid if it entertains you.

Being responsible for one's self, personal responsibility and drive works better than any government anything in my view. Don't promise me anything and don't rob me works better for me.
 
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Shakenawake

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Yup, data, evidence, precedent, logic and reason, empathy for fellow human beings, all swallowed hook line and sinker. You got me. It's all just a ruse to avoid responsibility and get free stuff. How did you know?
 

RedCowboy

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Anytime government get involved in charity it costs more and the people get less, people are perfectly able to do good works through their church and help the downtrodden, I have empathy but I don't think we need big brother to redistribute the wealth the way they managed our social security and by the time I collect it's only the last decade that really counts anyway yet they take from every paycheck I ever got.

The fact is our helpful government essentially stole our 2.5 TRILLION dollar social security surplus and now they don't want to pay it back.
Global warming is not going to destroy the planet in 12 years.
Socialism isn't even a proper pimple of the backside of capitalism which just flat out works better.
 

paul1598419

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Yes, these are all republican talking points. But, social security has been around since Roosevelt and nobody wants to get rid of that, even republicans. Why? Retired people vote. The public school system was started in the 19th century and, except for republicans who would defund it through charter schools, it has been the corner stone of education in this country for over 100 years. Yes, these are all socialist programs as they have been paid for with taxes. In the case of public schools people who never had children pay these taxes too, and not many complain about it. And people sometimes die before they can collect on social security, but that is how taxes work, or at least should work. I believe the clawing back of much of the tax breaks the wealthy have gotten over the past 30+ years is far overdue. Trickle down economics has never worked because people never spend their money altruistically. They may give some small percentage of it to charities, but mostly always to gain some tax advantage.

So, the fact is social programs have been a large part of this country for more time than people who live now can remember the start of. And none are going anywhere anytime soon.
 

RedCowboy

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You say Republican talking points like that negates the truth, the truth is our money was taken and spent thanks to democrat LBJ and yes the social security program still exists but the amount people get is diminished because of LBJ spending our social security money on Vietnam to hide the real cost, a war which he also attempted to micro manage and made a real mess out of costing many American lives.

My point is valid, democrat LBJ spent our money that we were forced to pay with the promise that we will get it back but now it will have to be funded with more debt, this is what big government does, we need smaller government which means less theft of our hard earned money, not a socialist behemoth that micro manages our lives in every detail because we already know how that fails.
 







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