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Politics and General Debates Thread

RedCowboy

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While your 2 syllable 5 letter retort may seem creative in your own simple mind, allow me to challenge you to strive for..........ohh maybe a complete thought.......dare I dream a complete sentence.........and don't sell yourself short, you can do it, you can expand you thoughts beyond mere childish prattle.........if not then feel free to reply with " Oh Yea " or " your mama " and I will understand.
It's not my ambition to challenge the challenged beyond their ability. ;)
 



paul1598419

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You have insurance companies making these decisions for you already. Think of Medicare for all as a solution. Government is NOT involved in the decisions about care at all. Will it be expensive? Sure, but the government argument doesn't fly at all. Now, the savings you will get from not having to pay for preexisting conditions that the ACA eliminated are being contested by the Trump administration as I post this, so who knows how that will end up. Trump says he is keeping the preexisting benefits, but is not doing so in court. He is literally trying to dismantle the entire ACA preexisting benefits and all. So far he hasn't been successful.......and with luck, he won't be. But, if he succeeds no one will have preexisting benefits and that will come out of your pockets. The insurance companies certainly won't keep them going out of the kindness of their hearts. And, the benefits of not having for profit insurance companies cannot be underestimated here. This is the argument for a single payer plan. But, it won't be easy to get that done unless people who want that are in power in the two branches of government that pass these kinds of legislation.
 

Shakenawake

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You have insurance companies making these decisions for you already. Think of Medicare for all as a solution. Government is NOT involved in the decisions about care at all. Will it be expensive? Sure, but the government argument doesn't fly at all. Now, the savings you will get from not having to pay for preexisting conditions that the ACA eliminated are being contested by the Trump administration as I post this, so who knows how that will end up. Trump says he is keeping the preexisting benefits, but is not doing so in court. He is literally trying to dismantle the entire ACA preexisting benefits and all. So far he hasn't been successful.......and with luck, he won't be. But, if he succeeds no one will have preexisting benefits and that will come out of your pockets. The insurance companies certainly won't keep them going out of the kindness of their hearts. And, the benefits of not having for profit insurance companies cannot be underestimated here. This is the argument for a single payer plan. But, it won't be easy to get that done unless people who want that are in power in the two branches of government that pass these kinds of legislation.
AND there won't be anymore "in network" B.S. anymore. Visiting a friend across the country and get injured? You're fine. Not so under current system, where if you cant see the doctors in your network you have to pay out of pocket. No more crazy high deductibles, no more insurance for your insurance that pays your deductible so you can use your insurance. As I said, we will see savings in the long run too as there is more preventative care.

It won't be perfect, there will be drawbacks, but right now around 35,000 people ( and possibly many more than that) die a year from not having access to basic healthcare. Around 500,000 go bankrupt every year due to medical bills.

It's not like we're going into uncharted waters either. Virtually every other developed nation has some version of single payer. Even Trump has said that Australia has better healthcare than we do. So listen to Trump will ya?

If you're still worried, you can always get supplemental insurance. Contrary to right wing propaganda, they won't be outlawed, only obsolete
 
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RedCowboy

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I'm not against it in theory, something like Medicare for all but there has to be protections, privacy, and it can't be exploited for control........hell government cant even count votes without cheating, sigh.............

A lot could be done and done better if we had trustworthy elected lawmakers.............as far as Medicare for all I would want private medical to also remain an option so if someone is unhappy with Medicare they can at least pay for private treatment.

I'm not against it in theory but I am worried about the execution.
 

Shakenawake

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I share many of your concerns. I would not presume to tell you that they are all unfounded.

I look at the downsides. I read that in Canada the MRI machines run basically around the clock. Sometimes an appointment for one will be at like 3 AM. There can be waiting periods to see a specialist, although to be fair, we have some of that here now already. There will likely be some degree of prioritization based on need. I'm sure it will be far from perfect out of the gate.

When I weigh every downside against the number who die every year from not having access to basic healthcare though, well it seems to me a small price.

I like the idea of tuition free college too. I see I as investing in our future. An democracy works best when we are well informed, hence the term, informed decision. We already have k-12, why arbitrarily stop there? Sorry if I mentioned it before but I heard a study showed that the tax revenue generated from people who joined the military and had their school payed for (generated after they began their post- military career) exceeded the cost of the program to educate them. If that's the case why wouldnt we want to do it for everyone? We reap what we sow, sometimes the payoff isnt immediate. Society is too hooked on instant gratification. What an american dream that would be, land of opportunity. Level the playing field so no matter where you come from or what income level you have the same opportunity as anyone else. Is there an arguement against tuition free college that could not also apply to k-12? Could you imagine if there was only private education? What a perfect recipe to further widen the divide between the haves and have- nots
 

Alaskan

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It's rare day I fall for click bait surveys imbedded in unrelated articles on Yahoo, but I did today and was pleased with the result.



That witch has lost..... who knew a bucket of Trump water could do that to her. Trumped indeed, jokers wild.
 

Encap

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rofl -- a small does of reality goes a long way - is up to Sanders to do more than pander to an extreme left intent on destroying anything/everything that benefits the USA with emotion driven plain and simply profoundly stupid and not viable Idealist daydream proposals that will/could/would never be any more than that.
So much for a guy that in this entire 40 years career and has done little more than name a couple of Post Offices while not living in the real world and taking a government paycheck. He needs to get a grip if he ever wants to be more than a curiosity from the backwoods of Vermont.





MANCHESTER, NH—In a last-minute attempt to court the much-sought-after demographic, Senator Bernie Sanders appealed to a town hall of moderates Thursday by reminding them all of his policies would wind up getting watered down enough to match their positions anyway. “Listen, I understand many of you are nervous about my so-called radical stances on healthcare and abolishing ICE, but I’d urge you to remember they will ultimately be so diluted by the political process and left so utterly toothless that none of you could possibly oppose the end result,” said Sanders, assuring the center-left voters that since two-thirds of all Senate Democrats are on the record as not backing his Medicare For All proposal, even placing it on his website was at best wishful thinking compared to the sort of slight incremental progress that his White House would realistically be able to enact. “Let’s be honest here: Based on the center-leaning composition of Congress and where we stand ideologically as a country, my administration would be very lucky to even get a public option on the books. So what I’m saying here is don’t worry. By the time the lobbyists get through with gutting my platform, it’ll only be palatable to ineffectual middle-of-the-road voters like yourselves.” At press time, Sanders had received a standing ovation from the gathering after he closed his speech by noting that many of his far-left supporters would likely end up despising him for the compromises he would be forced to make as president. ~ The Onion
 

Alaskan

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Ha, it would likely be true, doesn't matter what he says.... it wouldn't be nearly as radical as he is saying it would be.
 

Encap

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Ha, it would likely be true, doesn't matter what he says.... it wouldn't be nearly as radical as he is saying it would be.
Exactly(y) It would without a doubt become be true unless Sanders would be willing to be a do nothing figure head only and let Congress run wild and do many of the Executive Branch functions---but if that were to become likely the case then separation of powers comes into play.
In a two party system like our Republican and Democrat system the only tjhing worse than one party or the other controlling everything/running the show is when the two try to work together --is like oil and water--makes a big mess of everything LOL
 

Alaskan

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Very few can do what they say they will, Trump is the only one in memory I can recall who has come close to doing what he campaigned to do, but if radical, you would have too much resistance.
 

paul1598419

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You forget Obama's ACA. There were many things Obama accomplished coming into a a near destroyed economy. It cost many Democrats their positions, but it was at least a start into trying to control an out-of-control health care system. He also added more jobs in his last three years in office than Trump did in his first three.
 

Shakenawake

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rofl -- a small does of reality goes a long way - is up to Sanders to do more than pander to an extreme left intent on destroying anything/everything that benefits the USA with emotion driven plain and simply profoundly stupid and not viable Idealist daydream proposals that will/could/would never be any more than that.
So much for a guy that in this entire 40 years career and has done little more than name a couple of Post Offices while not living in the real world and taking a government paycheck. He needs to get a grip if he ever wants to be more than a curiosity from the backwoods of Vermont.
Wow, you believe all that? Because saying the extreme left, whatever that is, is intent on destroying anything and everything that benefits the USA is about as ignorant and disingenuous as if I were to say that all trump voters are uneducated, racist, backwoods hillbillies who want a return to segregation/slavery. Sure some people may say exactly that, and they'd be as wrong as you are, and just as entitled to their dumb ass opinion I guess, after all you did say opinions cant be right or wrong.

I assume you include single payer healthcare under the umbrella of "idealist daydream proposals" that "will/could/would never work." Care to justify that position in light of the fact that virtually every other developed nation has it? I believe that would qualify as precedent, blowing your claim of "could/would never work" out of the water. How about tuition free college? I assume you think it's too expensive. Are you aware that some of the recent increases in the military budget could have paid for it? How can we afford it when it's for the military but not if it's to help the average citizen? Funny how that works.

Your claim that sanders hasn't done much also falls flat on its face. We talking about the same guy? The guy known as the "amendment king"? You wanna walk that back a little or just keep spouting right wing talking points easily debunked with just a few key strokes?

But the onion article brings a fair point. Sanders has said he will campaign against the reelection of democrats who oppose some of his plans, for what that's worth. Honestly I doubt he'll have time for them all, there will be so much resistance to his plans. Guess he'll have to get help from we the people on that. There are many establishment dems who might as well be republicans who will oppose him, but something like 80% of the dem base supports single payer. Some polls show over 50% support among republicans, yet you characterize it as extreme. How laughable

Have to say I agree that sometimes when both parties work together the results are disastrous. That's how we got most of the B.S. wars, deregulation of wall st. leading to the financial crisis and bailout crap ( btw, Sanders opposed the bailouts of the "too big to fail banks", and most of the wars) and violating our constitutional rights like the 4th amendment violations, the NSA warrantless wire tapping that Snowden exposed. (Which spineless, unprincipled hacks like Sean Hannity supported when Bush was doing it, then opposed when Obama did exactly the same thing)

This is why Tulsi annoys me when she so often holds bipartisanship as an ideal. The devil is always in the details. Sometimes it is good, sometimes not
 

Hap

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I just donated $5 to Bernie Sanders campaign :)

-Alex
 

paul1598419

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Roger Stone, Trump's long time friend, who was convicted last year of perjury and witness tampering in one of the most high-profile criminal prosecutions arising from Robert Mueller's investigations of Russian interference in the 2016 election had the prosecution's recommendation of 7 to 9 years in prison interfered with by senior Justice Department officials in a stunning never seen before way yesterday shortly after Trump tweeted that the sentencing recommendation was "horrible and very unfair". The senior Justice officials called for more leniency causing 3 of the 4 prosecutors to withdraw from the case and the 4th to quit the DOJ entirely. Trump claimed he had nothing to do with this outcome, but anyone with the sense God gave a fence post should know this has his stench all over it.

Trump also suggested that the Pentagon should consider punishing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the White House aide who was fired last week, after he testified in the impeachment hearings. What he should be punished for and the reasoning behind that remained unclear. It seems Trump is not finished with his campaign of vengeance against people who adhered to the House subpoenas and testified in the impeachment inquiry. Sounds very much like a mob boss who is after those who he believes were disloyal to him.
 

Encap

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LOL--probably closer to the reality/truth than any of the news media reports




NEW YORK—Noting that the Minnesota senator could be a potential “spoiler at the convention,” FiveThiryEight released a report Wednesday finding that moderate Democrats were worried Amy Klobuchar could split the crucial people-who-will-vote-for-anybody vote. “Klobuchar has a real path to the nomination if she can lock down this constituency of voters who just kind of support anyone whose name they heard recently,” said editor-in-chief Nate Silver, referring to the demographic as the Democratic party’s most consistent voting base. “We all expected Biden to consolidate this group, but he has surprisingly struggled to connect with people who don’t really want to consider why they’re casting a vote. Instead, it’s Klobuchar who looks to be the one speaking to their issues—which are vague and ill-defined. She’s definitely an appealing choice for Democrats who blindly vote for any random candidate with a ‘D’ next to their name.” The report concluded by citing Hilary Clinton’s stronghold over the voting block on her path to the 2016 nomination.
~ The Onion
 




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