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Politics and General Debates Thread

RedCowboy

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Many people will likely agree with requiring back ground checks for all gun transactions but fear giving in to anything without protections, I can agree in theory to a universal BGC but with protections so it doesn't morph into something else and several other laws need to be fixed, for instance if a person is a danger to themselves then take the person into custody, don't take the guns and leave the person loose, they can still kill themselves or harm others, once in custody and after due process then decide if taking of property is appropriate.
Once we have universal background checks for all gun transactions then a permit to buy/own is redundant and is not needed......it's only required in a few states but like I say no need to intentionally be difficult, the goal is to stop maniacs not harass/infringe good people.

I don't disagree about changing drug laws and not locking up kids and not giving long sentences for possession, like I said possession should only result in treatment and I am not against decriminalization of pot, the hard drugs do ruin some people but I am not against decriminalization there either but cities need to be prepared to house and treat or maintain addicts to prevent related crime when people hit rock bottom which many will, not all as some can manage I'm sure but some will need assistance if decriminalization of class 1/2 drugs for recreational purposes or self medication. However I expect some young people and famous people will OD resulting in outcry for change again, but I always stand on the side of freedom and personal responsibility and I know everything can't be 100% safe, this applies to most all things.
 



paul1598419

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Yes, I read about the jam at the capital building in Virginia. The mothers movement was a grass roots effort to enact a change in gun laws by the citizens who live in Virginia. They were tired of the gun violence there and saw enacting new gun legislation as a possible way to get a handle on it. Many legislator's staff were inconvenienced by long lines trying to get through metal detectors. Contrast this with anyone could bring a gun into the capital building before outside forces made announcements that they were going to show up armed and I believe most reasonable people can understand the need for this precaution.
 

Shakenawake

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Well, I am very happy with Trump, still happy with him, especially after his recent act of pushing back against Iran attacking our base and the embassy in Iraq. Iran does not appease, they only listen if punched.
That attack was retaliation for the extrajudicial, unilateral assassination of Solemani. We are, for the most part, the aggressors, have been since way back in the 50s. Iran had been following the nuclear agreement. I'd call that appeasement. Trump pulled out of that. We sanction medicine resulting in preventable deaths of its citizens. The international criminal court told us we couldn't do that but I guess we are above the law. The rules dont apply to us. Ironic seeing as trump ran as the "law and order" candidate. He has reduced our troops to mercenaries, accepting payment for their services from and to saudi arabia. He admitted this on national tv, in addition to admitting to using our troops to secure the oil of a sovereign nation, Syria. Didnt he campaign on ending the stupid regime change wars? But it doesnt matter. Y'all will support him no matter what he does. He even said he could shoot someone in broad daylight and still get elected, and he's right. He's playing you so bad, and you love it. Vehement will be the defense of policies that are ultimately against everyones interests including trump's supporters. They've got you trained so well. Every debate they ask bernie how he'll pay for medicare for all but I have never heard anyone in the media ask how we will pay for a war with Iran.

Study a bit of history. We overthrew ran's DEMOCRATIC government in the 50s. We shot down their passenger plane. (Guess that makes US a state sponsor of terror too huh?) We backed Iraq when they were at war with Iran and didnt seem to care that Saddam used chemical weapons on the Iranians. Hell, Rumsfeld probably sold them to Saddam. Reminds me of the joke on Chappelle's show where they ask negrodamus why Bush was so sure Iraq has WMDs and negrodamus said "because he has the receipt" if I were Iran, you can bet I would be doing everything I could to get a nuke. It's the only deterrent the US respects, just look at the situation with North Korea. The irony is that they probably wouldnt be so interested in getting one if we weren't constantly messing with them.

Now having said all that, I've got little love for Irans government. This is a road we've been down before, but now they aren't even trying to lie well. Now we have Pence saying Iran was involved in 9/11. (strange they never mentioned that before. Strange that Iran would help saudi arabia with that since they hate eachother, and both funding and hijackers came from saudi arabia) Solemani had just helped to defeat ISIS so calling him a terrorist us not accurate. He was in iraq on a peace mission to attempt to ease tensions between saudi arabia and iran. Wouldnt suprise me at all if trump killed him on the crown prince of saudi arabia's behest. Makes sense to me since we're now their hired muscle and Iranian backed forced had attacked their oil fields. Actually, we've been their hired muscle for a long time but previous presidents were sharp enough not to admit that on national TV. Gotta give trump credit for that. He tells it like it is, and how it is is really effed up. Keeps saying the quiet part out loud. I think it's more a reflection on the rest of us americans that we aren't more appalled by his admissions. Makes us kinda complicit. Not me

It's just non stop bash and trash, they don't even debate the facts anymore on mainstream news except FOX, it's just non stop propaganda and you can't trust anything most dem politician says, they have no morals yet they pretend to care about the innocent and cry alligator tears while standing on the bodies attempting to garner political leverage, I am beyond sickened by most of them and nothing Trump will ever do is good enough, damned if he does damned if he doesn't and compromise means we give something up every time, their obstructionist and less than worthless most of the time when they do nothing at all that's the best we can expect.

Looking back it's the same stuff over and over, lies and misinformation, accusation against others and denial on their part, never do they take responsibility but they sure love to lay blame.

I would love to see a democrat on tv and be able to say, well I think he/she is at least trying or well they think there doing right, but now I don't see a single one who's sincere.........sometimes Biden tells the truth and then he looks around as if he's thinking " Oh Crap did I just say that ? " but that's hardly honesty, more senility, like when he talked about how he enjoyed kids at the pool rubbing his legs, that was actually honest, cringe worthy but honest.
I loved it when Bush said, "our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking of ways to hurt america and it's people, and neither do we" Freudian slip.
 
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Alaskan

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In my view that wasn't a Fredudian slip, IMHO Bush was simply a very poor speaker and misspoke.
 

RedCowboy

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Biden is beyond simple misspeaks, he's a senile liar who's not fit for the job.


 
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Shakenawake

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Trump isnt all there either. Talking about taking British air fields in the revolutionary war. When not amped up on the uppers he takes he can sound a bit like a comatose zombie. Not as bad as biden. I'll grant that. Biden is done anyway. I think Bernie has it.
 

Shakenawake

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Yeah the media does a good job conditioning a knee jerk fear response to that word. Like most things, it's better to understand it then fear it. And I mean really understand it, not the mischaracterized strawman that gets tilted at like so many windmills so often. First, it helps to understand we are talking about social democracy, quite a different thing from the socialism fox news invokes

Let's keep it real. The amount that the Pentagon's budget was increased by could have paid for tuition free college but NO ONE ever asks how we can afford our military and wars. Anything that would help the average joe and not just military contractors and their rich investors is always treated like a disproportionately large expense. Its surreal to someone like me. Isnt the love of money the root of all evil? So how would removing the profit incentive from places it shouldn't be like healthcare destroy everything? Do you like being bent over by the rapacious mafia like middle man that is private health insurance?
 
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Alaskan

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The way things are structured now, try to make those kinds of fundamental changes quick and it will crash, it could be done, but slowly. We are already in debt at twice the official amount now, over 40 trillion dollars. If we weren't so far in debt we could pull it off, but I don't think it possible for some time to come.
 

Shakenawake

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If by slowly you mean a public option first, here's why I'm against that. If there was a public option, the insurance companies would pawn off all the sick people onto it so that they can maximize profit. This will overburden the public option and it won't work. Then everyone will point at that as if its proof that a single payer is a bad idea, that the government will only botch any national healthcare, when really, again, it would be the fault of the insurance companies
 

Alaskan

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I was just meaning the financial side of it.
 

Shakenawake

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It's supposed to be cheaper. The reason is the overhead. 0.95 out of every dollar will go to healthcare as opposed to the about 0.80 under our current system. Also easier for doctors and hospitals since they won't have to deal with all these different health insurances. So I would say we cant afford not to do it
 

paul1598419

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We've had socialized medicine for years. It is called Medicare and it works very well for retirees like myself. I see no reason it couldn't be expanded to include everyone. Would certainly take the profit out of medicine. The Democrats did stop Trump from extending patent rights on biological's. They are now only good for seven years. Look at the orphan drug act. It is pulling billions of dollars out of what we spend on medicine here. Alexion only makes 4 drugs and they are all orphan drugs. Their top seller costs $1.5 million per year for those who take it. The most expensive drug anywhere.
 

RedCowboy

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Bernie himself said medicare for all would bankrupt the country.
Anytime you give the government more control the people have less freedom.
Universal healthcare would double everyone's taxes and young people would vote it out quickly there after.
You won't have the legalized recreational drugs you want in a world with universal healthcare.
Then when you feel your medical treatment is unsatisfactory you will have no way to do anything about it, your choices will be made for you.
If you get an abortion or not will be up to the government, they will decide, they will end up deciding a lot more than anyone wanted.
Just look at the squabbling children we call politicians, they are totally untrustworthy and nobody wants them making our medical decisions via. blanket policy.

Trump cut prescription costs, I have seen this myself picking up my fathers meds and my own, Trump cut costs by half and we could cut medical costs the same way without giving government total control.
 




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