Politics and General Debates Thread

[paul1598419]

The school is just as responsible for sending that kid back to the classroom without searching his backpack after finding his cry for help drawings/notes, that kid should have been sent to counseling before going back to the classroom.

This is another case against de-funding police, if there was a cop at that school then the kids backpack would have been searched at the very least before letting the kid go back to class.

Also if the State charges the 15 year old as an adult, then the parents are not responsible, however if they charge the 15 year old as a juvenile then the parents could be found responsible/negligent......But for the State to try and have it both ways is wrong, either the 15 year old is old enough to face adult charges ( responsibility for his own actions ) or he's not.


----------------------------------

14 people arrested in Ca. for smash and grab robberies have been released back onto the streets, it's time to end the liberal fail bail reform that's empowered a still growing crime wave.

14 arrested after series of smash-and-grab robberies

Authorities in Los Angeles on Thursday announced more than a dozen arrests in recent smash-and-grab thefts at stores where nearly $340,000 worth of merchandise was stolen, part of a rash of organiz…

www.newsnationnow.com

---------------------------------

COVID-19 has killed more people in 2021 than 2020, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data shows.

So much for Bidens promise to eliminate covid, even with vaccines and therapeutics Biden has done worse than Trump.

Actually Biden has done nothing but make things worse, however Biden is re implementing Trumps remain in Mexico policy which he shouldn't have messed with in the 1st place......letting in a million plus illegal immigrants without proper COVID-19 precautions is likely a big part of Bidens failed COVID-19 policy and Bidens broken COVID promise.

First of all many schools don't have the option of sending the kid home without the parents being on board and that was the case here. The parents were contacted by text message after not responding to a phone call the day before the kid shot all those students. The school was also not aware that the parents had bought the kid this gun as an Xmas present either. That school DID have a cop on the premises, but that isn't the cure all you'd like people to believe it is. The parents are finally under custody at a $500,000 bond each. Turns out they had fled to Detroit and were holed up in a warehouse there, but someone recognized their car and called the tip line turning them in. My god, the mother had texted the kid telling him she wasn't mad at him and just be careful not to get caught after she was informed he was looking for ammunition online.

With Republicans being the largest group still resisting the vaccine there is just so much Biden can do to get covid-19 under control. Personally I'd like to see people forced to get vaccinated, but that would be illegal. I got my second Moderna vaccine back in March and my booster pushing two months ago.

 

[Ears and Eggs]

Could the school have searched the kid's backpack based solely on finding those drawings/notes though? I can believe the school would have no idea the parents gave the kid that gun, if so, they'd be missing that part of the puzzle. After meeting with the school and seeing the drawings/notes, the parents would have had a much clearer picture of the whole problem, and from that point on the parents really should have immediately made sure they knew where the gun was, searched the bag themselves if need be, and and made sure the gun was permanently in their possession only.

 

[paul1598419]

Could the school have searched the kid's backpack based solely on finding those drawings/notes though? I can believe the school would have no idea the parents gave the kid that gun, if so, they'd be missing that part of the puzzle. After meeting with the school and seeing the drawings/notes, the parents would have had a much clearer picture of the whole problem, and from that point on the parents really should have immediately made sure they knew where the gun was, searched the bag themselves if need be, and and made sure the gun was permanently in their possession only.

Yep, they should have done that, but after meeting with school officials the morning of the shooting they refused to take Ethan home. They also didn't even ask about searching his backpack or locker. Just on the photo taken alone by the one teacher and with no other information the school was limited in what they could so without the parent's consent. In fact the parents were found hiding out in a warehouse in Detroit. They had taken out $4,000 in cash before taking off and if it were not for the tip about where they were hiding they may have still been at large.

 

[RedCowboy]

The school is responsible for student safety during school hours, it's always been that way, however Ethans parents could have been more helpful........I expect that they did not think Ethan was capable of doing such a thing or maybe they were in denial, but we don't know all the facts, the court will decide if the parents were negligent or complicit and if so they will be held accountable.

What we can't allow is for millions of responsible people to be punished for the acts of a very few maniacs and/or negligent parents among us and that's what the State who's officials were elected with Sorros money are attempting to do, they recently failed to pass a gun storage law which would infringe on the citizens ability to defend their homes, so if the parents turn out to have been negligent then they and Eithan alone should be punished, not everyone else who didn't commit any crime.

The State will try to blame the gun when it's Ethan and his parents who are responsible

-------

Biden said he would end COVID !
Biden said the buck stops with me !
Biden failed, more people have died from COVID in the US during 2021 than 2020
The buck stops with Biden and Biden failed even having the benefit of vaccines and therapeutics Biden failed because Biden has done nothing but hurt America.
A million illegal immigrants many with COVID were carried into US cities by bus and plane in the dark of night by the Biden admin. and now more people have diode of COVID, the Biden admin. has failed again and again, God help us during these next 3 years.

 

[Ears and Eggs]

If they could have searched the bag right there, then yeah, they definitely should have. I remember when I was in high school and a spool of magnesium ribbon and a small bottle of potassium metal went missing from the chemistry lab, the chemistry teacher freaked out and called the principal down to search everyone's backpack. The principal started searching bags, but in the end, whoever had taken those items had managed to dump them in a plant pot in the time it took the principal to get there. Since they weren't found on anyone, the school couldn't prove who the thief was and no one got busted for it.

 

[paul1598419]

The school is responsible for student safety during school hours, it's always been that way, however Ethans parents could have been more helpful........I expect that they did not think Ethan was capable of doing such a thing or maybe they were in denial, but we don't know all the facts, the court will decide if the parents were negligent or complicit and if so they will be held accountable.

What we can't allow is for millions of responsible people to be punished for the acts of a very few maniacs and/or negligent parents among us and that's what the State who's officials were elected with Sorros money are attempting to do, they recently failed to pass a gun storage law which would infringe on the citizens ability to defend their homes, so if the parents turn out to have been negligent then they and Eithan alone should be punished, not everyone else who didn't commit any crime.

The State will try to blame the gun when it's Ethan and his parents who are responsible

-------

Biden said he would end COVID !
Biden said the buck stops with me !
Biden failed, more people have died from COVID in the US during 2021 than 2020
The buck stops with Biden and Biden failed even having the benefit of vaccines and therapeutics Biden failed because Biden has done nothing but hurt America.
A million illegal immigrants many with COVID were carried into US cities by bus and plane in the dark of night by the Biden admin. and now more people have diode of COVID, the Biden admin. has failed again and again, God help us during these next 3 years.

The school was responsible only as far as the parents would allow them to be. James and Jennifer Crumbley were there on the morning of the shootout and refused to take Ethan or to allow his things to be searched. They took off and were found hiding in a warehouse in Detroit. Their lawyer tried to say that they had locked the gun up, but the police who had search their house, found no gun locks or safes that could have been used to lock the gun away.

Biden has tried everything legally possible to stop covid-19, but Republicans have refused to get vaccinated. I wish he could have forced everyone to get vaccinated, but he couldn't. Illegal immigrants are not the main reason that covid has spread. Republicans are. Yes, if there is a god he needs to help us get the people who still refuse to get vaccinate to find their way to get that done.

The Washington Post's Philip Bump has reported this week that deaths in Red counties are more than 50% higher than in Blue counties where people are far more vaccinated. Among the counties looked at are Multnomah County where Portland, Ore is and Alameda County in California.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/12/01/two-halfs-pandemic/

 

[RedCowboy]

Why do you feel the need to lie constantly ?

The Crumbleys were resistant to taking Ethan out of school, they did not flat out refuse to take Ethan home and the school did not flat out insist that they do, it was merely discussed.

The Crumbleys did not prevent the school from searching Ethans backpack, you made that up paul.

Republican and democrat vaccine holdouts are not the reason for Bidens continuing failures, remember Trump didn't have any vaccines available and vaccinated people still catch the virus and still spread the virus, getting holdouts vaccinated will not stop this virus, Biden lied just like you do paul.

 

[Ears and Eggs]

Now the school is claiming Ethan convinced the guidance councilor that the violent drawings were for a video game.

"At no time did counselors believe the student might harm others based on his behavior, responses and demeanor, which appeared calm. In addition, despite media reports, whether or not the gun was in his backpack has not been confirmed by law enforcement to our knowledge nor by our investigation at this time"

Is what the school has said. Per this news article:

Alleged Michigan school shooter convinced officials violent drawings were harmless pursuit

Accused Michigan high school shooter met with school officials ahead of shooting and said violent drawings he made were for a video game he was designing, letter states

www.foxnews.com

Something seems off here, I think someone is trying to cover their butt and we haven't heard the full story yet. If they really believed that "at no time did counselors believe the student might harm others based on his behavior, responses and demeanor" then why did they bring his parents in and tell them to get him counselling?

I guess it is possible the gun wasn't in his bag, kind of reminds me of the incident in my chemistry class, Ethan could have planted it somewhere else in the school, knowing he could be searched. Still doesn't excuse them for not searching though.

 

[RedCowboy]

The morning of the shooting, Ethan Crumbley’s teacher came upon a note on Ethan’s desk, which alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her phone.

-----

The note contained the following: A drawing of a handgun pointed at the words " The thoughts won’t stop. Help me. "

In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet: " Blood everywhere "

Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is the drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding.
Below that figure is the drawing of a laughing emoji.

Further down the drawing are the words: " My life is useless " and to the right of those words are " The world is dead ”

-----

What the hell kind of video game is that ? The school failed big time, Ethan Crumbley should not have been sent back to class that day, I don't care if they sat him in the principals office all day or with a school councilor, but no way this kid should have been sent back to class.
A drawing, left on Ethans desk, of a bloody gun and a wounded person with : (((((( The thoughts won't stop. Help me. ))))))
What an obvious cry for help. Ethan basically spelled it out and after the school saw it......they end up sending him back to class, this is far beyond a pop-tart chewed into the shape of a gun or simple gun image.

If it was a drawing of army soldiers having a battle or flying saucers blasting buildings and even tiny people on the streets below with army tanks firing back, then that is explainable as entertainment, hell I used to draw shit like that in school, but ((( The thoughts won't stop. Help me. ))) and left on his desk to be found......COME ON MAN

 

[paul1598419]

Why do you feel the need to lie constantly ?

The Crumbleys were resistant to taking Ethan out of school, they did not flat out refuse to take Ethan home and the school did not flat out insist that they do, it was merely discussed.

The Crumbleys did not prevent the school from searching Ethans backpack, you made that up paul.

Republican and democrat vaccine holdouts are not the reason for Bidens continuing failures, remember Trump didn't have any vaccines available and vaccinated people still catch the virus and still spread the virus, getting holdouts vaccinated will not stop this virus, Biden lied just like you do paul.

As was reported in the Post this week, Red counties have greater than 50% more deaths than Blue counties where the vaccination rates are much higher. Many Blue counties have vaccination rates close to 90% where the Red counties are below 40% in the worst places. In fact the Washington Post showed nearly every county except for the ones in Alaska. If this isn't evidence to you then you are still living Trumpster.

 

[paul1598419]

The morning of the shooting, Ethan Crumbley’s teacher came upon a note on Ethan’s desk, which alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her phone.

-----

The note contained the following: A drawing of a handgun pointed at the words " The thoughts won’t stop. Help me. "

In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet: " Blood everywhere "

Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is the drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding.
Below that figure is the drawing of a laughing emoji.

Further down the drawing are the words: " My life is useless " and to the right of those words are " The world is dead ”

-----

What the hell kind of video game is that ? The school failed big time, Ethan Crumbley should not have been sent back to class that day, I don't care if they sat him in the principals office all day or with a school councilor, but no way this kid should have been sent back to class.
A drawing, left on Ethans desk, of a bloody gun and a wounded person with : (((((( The thoughts won't stop. Help me. ))))))
What a obvious cry for help. Ethan basically spelled it out and after the school saw it......they end up sending him back to class, this is far beyond a pop-tart chewed into the shape of a gun or simple gun image.

If it was a drawing of army soldiers having a battle or flying saucers blasting buildings and even tiny people on the streets below with army tanks firing back, then that is explainable as entertainment, hell I used to draw shit like that in school, but ((( The thoughts won't stop. Help me. ))) and left on his desk to be found......COME ON MAN

The laws that dictate what schools are allowed to do vary widely by state and even within a state between counties. I'm sure there are at least as bad as was found on Ethan Crumbley's desk the morning of the shooting in many schools and it really depends on what the school is allowed to do whether that act on it immediately or, like Oxford School district did, call the parents in and tell them to get him counseling within 48 hours. At any rate the school's culpability is far less than that of the parents.

 

[RedCowboy]

We don't know all the details about the parents, the court will decide that, the parents are innocent until proven guilty, but the school should have done more, it's the school that deals with hundreds of children and should know the signs to look out for, the school was responsible for the safety of every child there that day.....NOT Ethans parents, Ethans parents are responsible for Ethan but the school is responsible for him while he's in school.

The school should also have a metal detector at every entry/exit point.......How the hell can a politician even think about a bill that infringes on the law abiding citizens constitutionally acknowledged and protected rights without even 1st writing a bill to see that every school has metal detectors ??? It seems like politicians don't want to actually solve anything.

Biden said the buck stops with me.

Biden promised that he had a COVID plan to end COVID.

Biden FAILED.

If every American was vaccinated we would still be spreading new variants/mutations.

Biden lied, pure and simple, Biden lied and Biden failed again, Biden has done nothing but fail.

Right now liberal cities are suffering runaway crime due to inane liberal policy, the same policy that let Darryl Brooks, a criminal and BLM activist with a long criminal history, out on 1000 bucks bail, he went on while out on bail to run down many people at a Christmas parade killing 6 with the same red SUV that he was out on bail for trying to run down his wife with and this was a racially motivated hate crime no doubt an effect of the liberal identity politics that exploits racism.

 

[RedCowboy]

America is weak with Biden at the helm and the world knows it, what Biden did in Afghanistan will have long term ramifications.

Russia is amassing troops to invade Ukraine and Israel will not let Iran have nukes and what about China taking Taiwan ? China vs. India....India vs. Pakistan ?

 

[paul1598419]

We don't know all the details about the parents, the court will decide that, the parents are innocent until proven guilty, but the school should have done more, it's the school that deals with hundreds of children and should know the signs to look out for, the school was responsible for the safety of every child there that day.....NOT Ethans parents, Ethans parents are responsible for Ethan but the school is responsible for him while he's in school.

The school should also have a metal detector at every entry/exit point.......How the hell can a politician even think about a bill that infringes on the law abiding citizens constitutionally acknowledged and protected rights without even 1st writing a bill to see that every school has metal detectors ??? It seems like politicians don't want to actually solve anything.

Biden said the buck stops with me.

Biden promised that he had a COVID plan to end COVID.

Biden FAILED.

If every American was vaccinated we would still be spreading new variants/mutations.

Biden lied, pure and simple, Biden lied and Biden failed again, Biden has done nothing but fail.

Right now liberal cities are suffering runaway crime due to inane liberal policy, the same policy that let Darryl Brooks, a criminal and BLM activist with a long criminal history, out on 1000 bucks bail, he went on while out on bail to run down many people at a Christmas parade killing 6 with the same red SUV that he was out on bail for trying to run down his wife with and this was a racially motivated hate crime no doubt an effect of the liberal identity politics that exploits racism.

The school didn't have any idea that Ethan had a gun that was purchased for him by his father. All the school had to work with was the one page that a teacher there had taken a snapshot of and didn't show an immediate threat to anyone but the student himself. I'm sure the school had what was necessary to detect metal coming into their school, but that is easily gotten around as has been shown many times in other schools.

Yeah, blame Biden for the Republican counties that refuse to be vaccinated. That is the Republican way now. The facts are still clear that Republicans are the main group that won't won't get vaccinated. And that is the reason that we are in the shape we are in now.

It remains to be seen if Darryl Brooks is a Liberal who ran down those people. I'm not saying that didn't do the crime just that he is a spokesperson for BLM and political at all.

 

[RedCowboy]

The school didn't have any idea that Ethan had a gun that was purchased for him by his father. All the school had to work with was the one page that a teacher there had taken a snapshot of and didn't show an immediate threat to anyone but the student himself.

You say the school didn't have any idea but I disagree, the teacher who saw the note sure did, and since when can't the school authorities take away and examine any paper a student has while on school property ?

Are you actually postulating/theorizing that the principal/school authorities didn't examine Ethans original drawing ? ( If you have a source that shows the school didn't even examine the actual drawing post it. ) The fact the teacher took a pic of the drawing is how we the public know what was in it, the school should have had his original drawing in hand as they decided what action to take, if not then WHY ???

So if your theory is correct ( I doubt it. ) Did his parents not see the drawing ?

These are facts we don't yet know, but if the school didn't even examine Ethans original drawing, then what information did his parents have ?

You keep embellishing/slanting things without having the facts, if you have read something that says the school never had Ethans note in hand as they decided what action to take, then post it.....otherwise stop making shit up.

 

[RedCowboy]

You were wrong again paul.

From AP news :

Tuesday, Nov. 30: A teacher finds a note on Ethan’s desk that alarms her enough to take a photo, the prosecutor says. It includes a drawing of a handgun and the words: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.” Also depicted is a bullet with the words “blood everywhere” above a person who appears to have been shot twice and is bleeding. A laughing emoji is drawn below the figure. The note also says “my life is useless” and “the world is dead.” The teacher reports the information to school counselors and the dean.

A counselor removes Ethan from the classroom and takes him to the office with his backpack. The counselor obtains the drawing, but Ethan has already scratched out portions. He says the drawing is part of a video game he is designing and that he wants a career as a video game designer, the superintendent says.

Key moments surrounding Michigan high school shooting | AP News

OXFORD TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) — The parents of the 15-year-old suspect in the fatal shooting of four students at a Michigan high school have entered not guilty pleas to involuntary manslaughter charges.

apnews.com

Monday Nov. 29th is the day Ethan was searching for ammo on his phone and when his mother texted she wasn't mad at him, Tuesday Nov. 30th was the day Ethan shot his classmates.

So the gun was purchased Friday, they went to a shooting range on Saturday and when Ethan was seen looking for ammo online Monday his mother texted back she wasn't mad at him, the killings took place the next day on Tuesday after the school examined the drawing from Tuesday.