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Politics and General Debates Thread




conceptcar3

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paul1598419

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Precisely. Look at us in the UK.

Really, Curtis. Are you saying that the vaccines provide no protection at all for getting or spreading covid? That is just wrong.

If Denmark is seeing higher rates of infection I would look at how they are telling their populace how to behave in closed areas. We still wear masks in Washington despite the high vaccination rates here. And in my area we have low infection rates compared to the Republican controlled states especially Idaho, Montana and other southern states.
 

paul1598419

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The vaccine is the best tool we have right now. But there is a ton of misinformation out there.

Yes, you can still transmit covid-19 to other people if you are vaccinated.

I agree with this totally. But, it doesn't mean that vaccines are useless at protecting people from transmitting the virus.

The Washington Post today:

Four years ago in Charlottesville, Virginia hundreds of mostly young White males marched at the University of Virginia chanting "White lives matter" and "Jews will not replace us". These White supremacists who marched on Aug. 11, 2017 were incited to come by an organization called Unite the Right. They are being sued under the Ku Klux Klan law of 1871 which was passed to restrict the KKK from lynching many hundreds of Black men in order to keep them from voting during reconstruction. Jury selection is now ongoing and the trial is estimated to last until Nov. 19. Plaintiffs are out to prove that Unite the Right engaged in a conspiracy to commit racially motivated violence.

Plaintiffs have more than 5 terabytes of documents that show planners messaging persons about "splitting skulls" and "driving vehicles into anti-protesters." During that weekend a neo-Nazi drove his car into a crowd killing 32 year old Heather Heyer and injuring at least 19 others.
 

conceptcar3

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Really, Curtis. Are you saying that the vaccines provide no protection at all for getting or spreading covid? That is just wrong.

If Denmark is seeing higher rates of infection I would look at how they are telling their populace how to behave in closed areas. We still wear masks in Washington despite the high vaccination rates here. And in my area we have low infection rates compared to the Republican controlled states especially Idaho, Montana and other southern states.
Keep wearing your mask because your vaccine doesn’t work Paul. Think!
 

RedCowboy

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CurtisOliver

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He said that vaccinated people spread covid just as quickly as unvaccinated. Vaccines don’t stop you catching illnesses and in most cases passing on illnesses. There’s no magic bio shield preventing you from catching the virus. You can catch the virus as easily as everyone else. Where things may change comes down to the individuals body response. Vaccines are meant to help here at this stage. If the individual is able to fight off the virus quickly and effectively it may then have some reduction in their ability to spread it. Such as fighting it before it has a chance to become contagious. However there is a lot of contradictions surrounding the effectiveness of this. There is a lot of mistrust atm and it is justified. You can go onto the news and literally find two articles contradicting each other sometimes even right next each other.
We get told that normality can be achieved when we have all had a vaccine. Then it becomes two vaccines. Now we are being threatened that our economy will suffer again and we won’t see our families at Christmas if we don’t consider a booster vaccine. Where is all of this going to end. A large proportion of the population are now double vaccinated but the case rate is high. However hospitalisation are lower than what they was at this case rate. This tells me that either vaccinations are not slowing the spread just lessening the severity. Or that vaccinations aren’t doing anything and that the virus is naturally weakening.
 
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bostjan

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I agree with this totally. But, it doesn't mean that vaccines are useless at protecting people from transmitting the virus.
The vaccines are sort of okay at stopping the transmission of the virus, at best.

I don't want to seem like I'm trashing the vaccine; on the contrary, I think it is brilliant that we were able to develop something so quickly. ....But.... The vaccines are not lasting. Data from the USA, Israel, and the UK all show strong evidence that the vaccines are wearing off about as quickly as was theorized last year (scientific papers were published in peer-reviewed journals about this, but the mainstream media largely ignored those studies). The virus is mutating about as quickly as theorized last year, and several of those mutations are adapting around the vaccine, which was something that the mainstream media did report quite thoroughly. So... in order for the vaccines to continue to be effective, we need a booster schedule of a shot every 6 months, and we need ongoing vaccine research to cover us from the threats of the new variants, and neither of those requirements seem to be going away any time in the foreseeable future. The CDC and other governmental organizations have been pulling back funding for the research and have been dragging their heels on the boosters, perhaps out of fear of public panic. But if you look at the numbers of new cases, we dropped significantly after the release of the vaccine and are now, after 9 months, back to the same rates (or worse in many communities) that we were pre-vaccine, which is to say, ever, really. The scientific data was out there and virtually unchallenged in it's validity, save for emotional arguments that the warnings were "too negative/pessimistic."

And, most of all, people are bad at this.

1. The holdouts who are yet unvaccinated, are largely not going to get vaccinated ever. This is a significant enough portion of the USA to cause epidemiological problems.
2. People are getting to the point where they don't care if there is a chance that they get sick and die, they would rather go back to pre-covid life and deal with the added risks. There has been little to no educational push to convince people to decide otherwise, and it's not only detrimental to the health of those people, but to the community, and we are so entitled about our personal freedom to blow snotrockets whenever and wherever we want that we don't care if it kills other people.
3. Even a lot of the people who have received the vaccine are diametrically opposed to getting regular boosters for this. Those people feel that they were promised that the vaccine would end the pandemic and that they were lied to. Of course, the fact that the scientific data predicting exactly what happened would happen is lost on these sorts of people, as they largely don't care about science or facts, and only about being able to go to nightclubs, to suck face with strangers, to blow snotrockets without masks on in public, to lick the toilet seats at grand central station, or whatever... I don't understand it, but hey, America!

And frankly, even if we funneled in a huge flow of steady cash to keep the vaccines up to date, we will still always be behind the virus in its evolution. It mutates faster than we can produce novel vaccines.
 

paul1598419

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He said that vaccinated people spread covid just as quickly as unvaccinated. Vaccines don’t stop you catching illnesses and in most cases passing on illnesses. There’s no magic bio shield preventing you from catching the virus. You can catch the virus as easily as everyone else. Where things may change comes down to the individuals body response. Vaccines are meant to help here at this stage. If the individual is able to fight off the virus quickly and effectively it may then have some reduction in their ability to spread it. Such as fighting it before it has a chance to become contagious. However there is a lot of contradictions surrounding the effectiveness of this. There is a lot of mistrust atm and it is justified. You can go onto the news and literally find two articles contradicting each other sometimes even right next each other.
We get told that normality can be achieved when we have all had a vaccine. Then it becomes two vaccines. Now we are being threatened that our economy will suffer again and we won’t see our families at Christmas if we don’t consider a booster vaccine. Where is all of this going to end. A large proportion of the population are now double vaccinated but the case rate is high. However hospitalisation are lower than what they was at this case rate. This tells me that either vaccinations are not slowing the spread just lessening the severity. Or that vaccinations aren’t doing anything and that the virus is naturally weakening.

Yes, there is a lot of misinformation about the vaccines. Especially here in the US. Few vaccines are permanent as the flu vaccines will show, but they do provide protection from spread....at least for many people. Hell, we still don't have an adequate vaccine for HIV all these years after we were told in the 80s that one was on the way. Republicans here are especially against vaccinations for political reasons and that is where the misinformation exists mainly. There are also anti-vaxxers that just don't believe in any vaccines, but most of these vote Republican too. Expect to have to continue to get vaccinated for covid-19 just like the flu, but don't believe that they are useless in containment. That is false.

It was reported yesterday that the new Surgeon General in Florida, who hasn't yet been confirmed, refused to wear a mask when visiting a Florida Senator who has cancer and is immuno-compromised. Instead he wanted to debate the merits of masks while the Senator became ever more at risk. This is the type of nonsense I am concerned about. Even though she had signs out asking everyone to wear a mask in her office some still refuse. And he is supposed to be Florida's next Surgeon General!
 
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RedCowboy

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I expect the Florida SG knows infinity more than you paul and is no doubt not the dishonest partisan hack you are, also there are an awful lot of African Americans who don't want the vaccine and they are typically only 5-15% Republican, so save your constant political recriminations when it comes to COVID.

COVID is not the fault of voters regardless of party, it's the fault of communist and our government namely Dr. Fauci who was involved with gain of function research and who told us wearing a mask wouldn't make any difference because he wanted to preserve the mask supply for medical workers.......point is we can't trust what these bastards tell us and I don't believe for a moment that Republican voters are responsible for any of our covid woes what so ever, if every American took this vaccine it would NOT stop COVID for many reasons, vaccinated people still catch and spread COVID and mutations are coming from overseas, so blame Biden for lying when he said he had some grand COVID plan which he quite obviously did not.

Governments around the world have exploited COVID for control and America is also guilty in this regard, democRATS exploited COVID to sway an election and spend money like drunken sailors, now while inflation is hurting Americans who struggle the most Biden is pushing his communism bill ahead of Nov. 2nd when democrats stand to pay a price for being authoritarian scumbags and pandering to the progressive extremist, Biden knows if he doesn't get something done before the State elections next week that his chances will be much lower, this is because Biden has been an total failure, Bidens approval continues to fall as voters demonstrate their buyers remorse for believing the constant mainstream media political hype against Trump who gave us the vaccine that so many democrat voters said they would never take.
 

Encap

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LOL probably very true, laughably so 🤣

Experts Warn Everything That Will Happen Between Now And November 2022 Could Spell Trouble For Democrats In Midterms

ADD.jpg

WASHINGTON—Stressing that literally any occurrence in the coming year might threaten the party’s fragile hold on power, political experts warned Wednesday that everything that will happen between now and November 2022 could spell trouble for Democrats in the midterms. “Unfortunately for Democrats, anything that occurs in the next 12 months—really anything at all—could be a portent of a midterm upset,” said political analyst Gary Chiang, describing how every coming event that transpires before the election could have serious repercussions for the Democratic Party, including passing climate change legislation, not passing climate change legislation, a proxy war in Asia, Nancy Pelosi sitting down in a chair, the death of giant panda Mei Xiang, winning down-ballot races, the complete implementation of the Build Back Better agenda, or a shortage of turkey around Thanksgiving. “An oil spill in the Gulf Coast? That’s a worrying sign for Democrats. On the other hand, a cloudy day in Washington in January? That could also prove disastrous come November. Really anything that happens in America or abroad from here on out might destroy the party’s chances to retain their congressional majority.” Chiang added that the only event that would not spell doom for Democrats would be for the White House to announce a full-scale ground invasion of Afghanistan.
~ The Onion - America's Finest News Source ~
 

paul1598419

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I expect the Florida SG knows infinity more than you paul and is no doubt not the dishonest partisan hack you are, also there are an awful lot of African Americans who don't want the vaccine and they are typically only 5-15% Republican, so save your constant political recriminations when it comes to COVID.

COVID is not the fault of voters regardless of party, it's the fault of communist and our government namely Dr. Fauci who was involved with gain of function research and who told us wearing a mask wouldn't make any difference because he wanted to preserve the mask supply for medical workers.......point is we can't trust what these bastards tell us and I don't believe for a moment that Republican voters are responsible for any of our covid woes what so ever, if every American took this vaccine it would NOT stop COVID for many reasons, vaccinated people still catch and spread COVID and mutations are coming from overseas, so blame Biden for lying when he said he had some grand COVID plan which he quite obviously did not.

Governments around the world have exploited COVID for control and America is also guilty in this regard, democRATS exploited COVID to sway an election and spend money like drunken sailors, now while inflation is hurting Americans who struggle the most Biden is pushing his communism bill ahead of Nov. 2nd when democrats stand to pay a price for being authoritarian scumbags and pandering to the progressive extremist, Biden knows if he doesn't get something done before the State elections next week that his chances will be much lower, this is because Biden has been an total failure, Bidens approval continues to fall as voters demonstrate their buyers remorse for believing the constant mainstream media political hype against Trump who gave us the vaccine that so many democrat voters said they would never take.

Yeah you Republicans always call Democrats communists, though that is patently false. I would hope that the Florida Surgeon General would know enough to wear a mask around an immunocompromised cancer patient, but apparently he doesn't. Democrats have a lot to be proud of...especially Biden as he took control of this pandemic here to the point where anyone in the US is only 5 miles away from a vaccine if they want one. Trump downplayed the pandemic and besides approving the buying of some vaccines, did nothing to mitigate the massive infections and deaths. And, YES, Republicans are the single largest numbers of people who haven't been vaccinated.
 




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