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Politics and General Debates Thread

paul1598419

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Today the federal court of appeals for the second district handed Trump another defeat in keeping his tax records out of the hands of Congress and the New York AG. This is the third time a federal court of appeals has ruled against Trump. The SCOTUS has given Trump until Thursday to submit arguments why this shouldn't be upheld. All the courts have found Trump's arguments without merit so far leading to a final review if the SCOTUS finds that this is even necessary. They could likely just not review it as Trump's arguments of personal immunity from investigation are unconstitutional.

Yesterday AG Barr took exception to the findings of the IG's report into the validity to investigate the Trump campaign and presidency for coordinating with Russia to interfere with the 2016 election. This was an unusual position for the AG to take because if they do disagree it is because the issue is the IG was too strict in its interpretation. But, Barr has said the IG wasn't strict enough in concluding the investigation was taken up with good cause. This makes him a Trump defender and not the head of investigations at the federal level.

Since the IG is independent from the DOJ, Barr cannot change the report that should be coming out soon. It is currently in draft form. But, like the Mueller report, it should be read as this AG has a bad record of misleading determinations prior to the release of such reports. It is not a good day for Trump. Will likely not be a good week for him either.
 



paul1598419

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HOLY $HIT!

The House released phone records today and among the surprises was Devin Nunes' phone calls to Lev Parnas as well as Rudy Giuliani a few days before Marie Yovanovitch was recalled from her post at the Ukrainian embassy. I remember his theory that she was simply recalled because, maybe, she was ineffective in her job. It now seems Nunes was in the loop about having her recalled and his ramblings during her testimony were quite disingenuous. He would not comment for reporters on this today. For those not keeping up, Lev Parnas is the indicted conspirator that was at the heart of a smear campaign toward Yovanovitch along with indicted Igor Fruman and unidicted Rudy Giuliani. I wonder how republicans will try to spin this development.
 

paul1598419

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Today the Washington Post has an article on the Inspector General, Micheal Horowitz's investigation into the investigation of Russian interference in the election of 2016, which was initiated by AG Barr at the request of Trump. According to people familiar with this investigation it found no evidence that the investigation was improper or had a political motivation to it. Also, U.S. Attorney, John Durham, who has also been doing a similar investigation has stated that he could not find any political or other improper motivations either. Both should be released sometime next week, but it is not going to be the "smoking gun" Trump has been looking for to say Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election instead of Russia. While the report has found some irregularities among lower FBI investigators, it found nothing to delegitimize the reasons for these investigations or that any of these irregularities posed a problem for them going forward.

Another article in the Post today was on the appointment of Sarah Pitlyk to sit as a federal judge and was narrowly confirmed in the Senate, being opposed by Susan Collins of Maine. She is another in a line of "not qualified" appointees to have been confirmed recently though the American Barr Association has declared them not qualified to sit on the bench. The ABA has been doing this kind of research into Federal Judges for many decades.
Standing Committee on the Federal Judiciary chair, William Hubbard, wrote "Ms. Pitlyk's experience to date has a very substantial gap, namely the absence of any trial or even real litigation experience. Ms. Pytlyk has never tried a case as lead or co-counsel, whether civil or criminal. She has never examined a witness, though Ms. Piitlyk has argued one case in a court of appeals, she has not taken a deposition, she has not argued any motion in a state or federal trial court. She has never picked a jury. She has never participated at any stage of a criminal matter."

So, what makes her so qualified to sit now? It might have to do with her written arguments. In an amicus brief opposing California's protections of assisted reproductive technology, Pitlyk asserted that "the practice of surrogacy has grave effects on society, such as diminished respect for motherhood and the unique mother-child bond." She also argued that surrogacy "is harmful to mothers and children" and is a "practice society should not be enforcing."
These claims are dubious at best and have no basis in science or medicine. (n)
 

paul1598419

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The report from Inspector General Michael Horowitz was just released today and depending on who you listen to, it is like this report came to two different conclusions. The report said there was not political bases for opening the Mueller investigation and that the evidence it was opened with was legitimate. It found some irregularities from some low level people who were part of the investigation, but also found these were not part of any evidence that showed the Mueller investigation was wrongly predicated or was politically motivated.

Since its release, Bill Barr has taken issue with it as it didn't show the narrative he has given that the investigation into the Trump campaign or presidency was illegitimate or politically motivated. It is odd for the US AG to take issue with a report that clears the DOJ of wrongdoing, but Barr is not really the US AG, but acts more like Trump's personal attorney. Trump held a press conference where he totally mislead the public on the findings of Horowitz's report. He actually said the report showed a political motivation into the investigation of his campaign and presidency. THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAID AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!

The hearings into the impeachment are ongoing as republicans try to deflect from the clear evidence that Trump held the Congressional aid in order to get a press report that Ukraine was investigating Joe Biden. They are bringing up Devin Nunes' phone calls with Lev Parnas, as if that has anything to do with Trump's wrongdoing. WTF!?
They have been interrupting the hearings to push these talking points as if they will somehow make Trump's actions not relevant. They continue to try to turn this into a circus, but it is only making them look like the clowns.
 
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paul1598419

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The hearings today took 9 hours to get through them all. Most of it was the Democratic and Republican attorneys that were part of the Houses evidence of Trump's wrongdoing and the republican's defense against this evidenced as witnesses. It was hilarious to see Stephen Castor's simply not admitting that the "transcript" of the July 25 phone call was proof of Trump wanting the Ukrainians to investigate the Biden's. If that didn't prove it for you the White House lawn press conference where Trump, when asked what he wanted the Ukrainians to do, he said, "to do the right thing and investigate the Biden's." I mean what does it take when even Trump himself said that was what he wanted done before republicans will admit that Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate his political rival? :ROFLMAO:

I find the second amendment "people" who are trying to resist legally passed laws from being adhered to just silly. This is a very small fraction of people in Virginia who don't believe that any gun restrictions can be made. The SCOTUS said so in its last two rulings on the second amendment. John Roberts is never going to rule that there can be no restrictions as he has said so in the past. Even if the other conservatives on the court rule that way, he won't. If you are waiting for a ruling from the SC telling Virginia it cannot pass these laws you will likely have a very long wait.
 
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RedCowboy

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Somebody didn't agree with somebody else's BS opinion and you call that unwillingness to admit evidence, that's not evidence paul, STOP MAKING SHIT UP.

Trump did nothing wrong, Biden did.

The tyranny of the extreme left which has been growing ever more extreme will be halted but not until things have become uncomfortable, which they are, the pendulum swings paul and it's going to be 4 more years thanks to these greedy dems who try to seize too much too fast.
 

paul1598419

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Goldman today made a compelling case that not only did Trump bribe the new Ukrainian president to investigate his political adversary, but he only released the $391 million after he was caught at doing so. As far back as a month before the funds were released the Trump administration was aware of concerns about the hold put on the money with no explanation to date as to why this was done. By the last week of July they knew about the whistle blower's report and the House wanting to investigate what had happened to this money and why it was being held up. The republican attorney wouldn't even say that Biden was mentioned on the 7/25 phone call or that Trump even wanted Biden investigated after he was shown a taped interview where Trump said he wanted Ukraine to investigate Biden. That is pure nonsense! There is still a ten point majority of voters that believe Trump should be impeached and removed, so I don't know what statistics you are siting for your opinions. It remains to be seen how the Senate will conduct itself once this gets to them, but if they act like House republicans it won't be good for them in 2020. No one has defended Trump on the facts, just the process. The facts are that Trump released the aid because he got caught. In light of all the imminent investigations he finally released the aid on 8/11, but with no explanation of why it was held up in the first place.

Biden only did what was expected of him in getting Shokin fired as it was the policy of the US and all our European partners. If anything, firing Shokin would have made an investigation into Burisma more likely as Shokin wasn't investigating them at all. Now, Trump and Barr are disputing the IG report and Barr has opened another investigation into the FBI's investigation because he didn't like the results of the IG's report. You have to ask how many times are they going to investigate the FBI? Until they get the narrative they have been pushing? It is totally politically motivated for Barr to do this. It is unprecedented for Barr to have even asked the IG to do an investigation and now Durham is the ONE everyone needs to wait for. This is HILARIOUS! Who believes Barr isn't just doing Trump's talking points as he critiques the report that he asked for? WTF!?
 

RedCowboy

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Trump will not be removed, this impeachment has no real evidence of any crime, just opinions, it will fail, Trump will not be removed.

This is a very small fraction of people in Virginia who don't believe that any gun restrictions can be made.
You are talking right straight out of your ass and haven't a clue what's going on and this is not just a few restrictions but outright infringements that will be challenged in court, the state bills actually include forcing people to dispose of millions of legally obtained and legally owned guns and magazines without compensation, millions of people will not comply.


 

paul1598419

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There aren't millions of gun owners in Virginia that own assault rifles or high count magazines. The Democrats have majorities everywhere it counts there and they didn't get there without a clear majority of voters who put them there. I'm sure it will get to the courts, but in the meantime it very well maybe enforced. Time will tell.
 

Shakenawake

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I've been following the impeachment stuff and have concluded that it is a farce and waste of time. Should have gone after him for emoluments. The senate still wouldnt impeach him but at least the charges would stain him. No one really cares about withholding foreign aid, most probably wonder why we even give it when we have so many problems here. I personally dont mind when corruption is uncovered, even if the person doing the uncovering is corrupt.

Hillary coming out and talking smack about Tulsi has helped tulsi quite a bit. Keep it up HRC. Talking smack about bernie too. Meanwhile the corporate neoliberals keep dropping out. No more kamela (thanks tulsi). The establishment dems are getting nervous. Their best bet biden has a melting brain, talking about corn pop and kids playing with his leg hair, and their second bet mayor Pete is not a frontrunner.

I'm hoping bernie gets nominated and pics tulsi as VP. That'd be best case scenario for me and I think bernie and tulsi do the best with getting republican votes. Every republican I have talked to recently likes tulsi. I have a theory that tulsi knows she cant win so is just focusing on exposing the frauds now. She has gone after and contributed to the takedown of Tim Ryan, Kamela Harris, mayor Pete, and tried to go after warren before the corporate news cut her off for commercial. Never seen her go after bernie

Also, the dems have been so distracted with this impeachment that they forgot to mention that they reauthorized the patriot act.

Also trump has renigged on a campaign promise to lower the cost of medication and is now all in with big pharma. Guess since we're so great we get to pay over twice as much as any other place.
 

Alaskan

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Trump renigged? The bill is being held up by the dems, they would not act on it until he kept pointing the finger at them for sitting on it, now finally they are talking about passing it next week.
 

Shakenawake

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It's a dem bill, so why would they hold it up? I keep hearing this from conservatives, that the dems aren't getting anything done. But my understanding is they have passed close to 400 Bill's in the house that mitch McCuonnell's republican senate is holding up. I will admit that most of them are focused on this impeachment farce. Like I said, shoulda went after him for emoluments. Like paul said he hasn't fully divested and is engaged in conflicts of interest that result in, among other things, a genocide in yemen. I would hope more people care about genocide than they do about withholding foreign aid and getting dirt on grope and change joe biden. I could be wrong though
 

Alaskan

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They are holding it up because they are too busy with their witch hunt.

Today I see the greatest threat this country has is internal, if things go in a very bad way, I wouldn't be surprised if some states become so divided that they want to break up the union, some states have talked about succeeding for a long time, more and more though I see how it could happen. Could this spin into a civil war if this BS keeping going on between some states against the feds and between political parties?
 
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RedCowboy

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Obama said the feds would not enforce the federal pot laws and that states could decide it's legality.

Now recreational pot is legal is some states but when I buy a gun the form 4473 I fill out ( when buying from a dealer ) it say pot is against federal law and you are banned from buying a gun if you are a pot user, I am not a pot user, don't care about it at all, but I think the federal law should be repealed so people can decide for themselves, still you see the inequity.

States should not be passing any gun laws as we already have federal laws.

Federal law say abortion is legal..........should states decide anyway ?
Several states including mine recently passed common sense restrictions about abortion but a federal judge has blocked those state laws pending lawsuits, seems a federal judge can block an unconstitutional Virginal gun law as well pending lawsuit.
Would like to see some Virginia lawmakers who violate their oath of office held accountable, isn't tar and feathering part of our right to protest ?
 
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Alaskan

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We need a whole lot of holding these people accountable, too many are not, no personal honor among the bulk of them, but who would expect that from thieves anyway?
 




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