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Politics and General Debates Thread

paul1598419

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It certainly has made a difference since Trump squeezed by. Just today the Governors race in Louisiana, which Trump went not once or twice but three times and republicans spent much more money than the Democrat, the Democrat won. Also see Kentucky. Same thing happened there. In fact, since Trump was elected over 400 seats in states were turned over to Democrats. If that is a referendum, I don't know what one looks like. It isn't looking good for republicans in 2020. But, we will have to wait to see.

When the only news source backing you is Fox, you are in trouble. There are far more people in the US that don't believe what Fox News has to say about politics that even impeachment is not set in stone like SNL's skit put it. Mitch McConnell comes into the impeachment inquiry and says "not guilty. Oh, too soon? Well let me know when it's time." :ROFLMAO:
 



RedCowboy

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@ paul

Trump seeking the truth about Bidens corruption is not the death of democracy it's accountability and it's needed.

Abusing the power of alphabet agencies to rule people as dictator without the people voting is the death of democracy, during Obama they removed the comment and reflection requirement for alphabet agencies to change regulations that carry the weight of law, that is the death of democracy.

Obama abused the unlimited power of the IRS to persecute tea party activist, that is the death of democracy.
 

paul1598419

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Yeah, I still hear you claiming that it was Obama who got certain Tea Party people investigated, but that has never been born out. The founding fathers were so concerned about interference in our elections by foreign powers that they put in the emoluments clause. Anyway you slice it, the evidence just from Trump's phone call shows him, once again, trying to get foreign influence in our elections in 2020. To see where it was done by him before, read the Mueller report. It was only because the OSC has said that a sitting president can't be charged with a crime that he wasn't. Now we have corroborating evidence of Trump's intent to gain foreign influence in the 2020 election that for many the case has been made. But, with new evidence coming forward everyday the next week should be at the very least well worth watching. No one has ever acted to get foreign governments to help in their election prospects in a presidential election before Trump. NO ONE!

To be clear, many in Trump's administration told him the Biden corruption was a nonsense conspiracy theory. The CrowdStrike server in Ukraine came from the Russian military to try to muddy the waters when the FBI was investigating them for interfering in 2016. But, it is far easier to spout these conspiracy theories than to prove them wrong, so that is why Trump keeps going back there.
 
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RedCowboy

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Keep clinging to the hope that the Schiff show will undo the 2016 election but what Trump did was not wrong, what Biden did was wrong, Trump did not ask for things to be fabricated as Schiff suggested in his false reading of the transcript later deemed " parody " but CNN unlike FOX is dishonest and spun Schiffs " parody " as if it was true, so some people still think Trump said what Schiff read but Schiff lied.....again.

Trump is not always politically correct but he did not act to cheat anyone, Hillary cheated Sanders and Schiff is acting to Cheat Trump, but Trump only asked for the Truth about Bidens abuse of power.
 

Hap

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I don't listen much to any of the mass media in the US. Most of the time it's total nonnense that they spit out. Fox News should in no way be taken as a serious news source however, it's even labeled under "entertainment" in some sections of streaming services. Just to point out that I am not one sided before somebody tries to claim I am, CNN is all for democrats and shouldn't be taken as a serious news source either.

The US media has a lower approval rating than Trump. And I don't like Trump, but that's the truth. Pathetic of them. :)

-Alex
 

ManCave

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I don't listen much to any of the mass media in the US. Most of the time it's total nonnense that they spit out. Fox News should in no way be taken as a serious news source however, it's even labeled under "entertainment" in some sections of streaming services. Just to point out that I am not one sided before somebody tries to claim I am, CNN is all for democrats and shouldn't be taken as a serious news source either.

The US media has a lower approval rating than Trump. And I don't like Trump, but that's the truth. Pathetic of them. :)

-Alex
In today’s world “News” agencies or “political” parties can‘t be trusted... Anywhere in the world!
If you can find it, watch a documentary called Hyper-normalisation. At nearly 3 hours long, It’s a heavy weight but, a must watch if you want to find out just how our modern world of news and politics work.
Cheers!
 

paul1598419

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As I have said many times I don't watch CNN. I do watch the PBS News Hour and BBC America, though.

Still trying to spin this impeachment inquiry as Democrats trying to undo the 2016 election! That is nonsense, and I believe most republicans, at least in office, know that. Will be watching as Sondland testifies, again, on Wednesday. If he doesn't take the 5th, it should be quite a show.
 

RedCowboy

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Sondland has already changed his story once but there is still no proof of bribery and Sondland is now an unreliable witness and if he changes his story yet again then he's even more unreliable and America is not going to sit still for hanging everything on someone's ever changing story which still has offered no proof of bribery.

Hillary Clinton did everything required for a felony violation of Section 793f Title 18 of the federal penal code but was not held accountable because there was no UNDENIABLE PROOF OF HER INTENT, that's the burden of proof required, not even the fact that she did violate the law, she did and Comey said she was Grossly Negligent, but there was not undeniable proof of her intent and we all saw how Trump thought that he did nothing wrong, perfect phone call he said, NO INTENT, yet we are supposed to buy this incredible stretch based on no real evidence and absolutely no proof of intent........no way and the senate wont buy it either........this is Schiff interfering with the 2020 election and it needs to end, Schiff has lied and slandered our President enough and although the Trump haters thrill with this Schiff show now they will cry foul when a democrat President is getting this kind of treatment in the future and that's what this will bring, it needs to end this year.
 

paul1598419

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Sondland's testimony has only changed with respect to how he lied for Trump and was caught at it. If his further testimony clears up other lies he told they are pertinent. And the rules that govern testimony in a criminal hearing do not apply in an impeachment. They never have in any of the three other impeachments. In the end it is not what Republicans or Democrats have said in the House investigations, but the testimony itself that will win the day.

There's a new poll out today that shows 70% of Americans believe what Trump did in that phone call was wrong and 51% want him removed. Time will tell if this continues to move in this direction. My belief is Mitch McConnell will throw Trump under the bus when it becomes likely that they will lose the Senate. That is of course just my opinion, but Moscow Mitch is nothing if not political.
 

RedCowboy

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You think the senate will remove Trump from office over this totally corrupt Schiff sham..........
You can hope paul, you can hope :ROFLMAO:





---edit---

Oh and 70% is a poll of 500 adults who are NOT registered voters, so that means 30% of the people who won't vote for Trump can't even pretend to believe what he said in that phone call was anything but just fine.

This is a complete sham and if the house dems impeach based on what has been presented as of today then they have incriminated their character because there is no proof of bribery thus far, it would be just because they don't like Trump and they have no rules to follow, so it means nothing except every president from now on is likely to be impeached................so if they don't come up with something real you may not even get the dem house hate Trump vote to impeach.
 
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paul1598419

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If you believe there has been NO proof of bribery so far you need to get your news somewhere besides Fox. I watch the unedited public hearings as they are televised. But, they are rebroadcast later if that works better for you. I suspect you don't want to know and if you did it wouldn't change your mind either. He is your Crook no matter what he does. I believe there are more people whose minds can be changed if they are engaged.


On the USA Today poll the only thing you got right was it was of 506 Americans. Nowhere did it say they were not registered to vote. It has a margin of error of 4.8%.

In an ABC poll 60% of Americans thought Trump should be impeached. Of those it broke down when each % point decided this. I don't care when they made up their minds so I didn't copy that down.
 

RedCowboy

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There was no bribery, if Hillary had won and had the same conversation with Zelinsky you would say she did nothing wrong.............go ahead and say otherwise but I know better, you don't like Trump and you don't care how unjust the process is or if they don't have any evidence, all they have is opinion and people are getting sick of the Schiff show, nobody likes " Prove yourself innocent " that's not America, that's what we fought to escape.
 

paul1598419

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Gees! I don't even want to respond except to say thank you.

You know, if Democrats were smart they'd pay Trump's bills to go to rallies. It seems to have more of an effect on Democratic turnout than Republicans. :ROFLMAO:
 

Encap

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Schiff's made-for-TV spectacle, done with smoke and mirrors, dog and pony show as a matter of due process is a bad joke
Schiff has rare talents---the ability to misrepresent facts in a hearing that not only exceeds dramatic license but to keep moving ahead, even when there is no substance to the allegations and when they continually crumble.
Is an amazing spectacle that Schiff should be doing live from Las Vegas not Washington DC. Schiff loves asking questions in a way that elucidates his preferred answer even if it is not supported by the facts and he threatens anyone who has the temerity to question his methods. The Schiff show is a deeply un-American process. If the case is going on national television, fundamental fairness dictates that it be the whole case otherwise, it’s just a show, produced and directed by partisan Democrats.
Pretty certain most people see Schiff for what he is and ignore the Schiff veil of airs and graces.


Anyway---will be interesting to hear what DOJ IG Horowitz has to say + a bit later U.S. Attorney John Durham .

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/rep/releases/chairman-graham-announces-hearing-on-doj-inspector-generals-report-on-fisa-abuse-investigation
"18 November 2019– Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today announced that Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz will testify before the Committee on Wednesday, December 11, 2019.
The Inspector General will discuss the findings of his investigation into DOJ and FBI’s conduct during the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant process as it relates to the 2016 presidential election.

“I appreciate all the hard work by Mr. Horowitz and his team regarding the Carter Page FISA warrant application and the counterintelligence investigation of the Trump campaign.
“Mr. Horowitz will be appearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee on December 11, where he will deliver a detailed report of what he found regarding his investigation, along with recommendations as to how to make our judicial and investigative systems better.
“I look forward to hearing from him. He is a good man that has served our nation well.” "
 
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paul1598419

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Excellent! You spend your Wednesday watching the republican's not finding anything wrong with the FBI investigation and the rest of us will watch Sondland, who is tied directly to Trump and can offer first hand testimony of is intent. (y)
 

RedCowboy

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The National Defense Authorization Act passed last year requires the president to certify that a country is rooting out corruption before the President can send taxpayer money to that country.

Rep. Scalise says Trump's conversation with Ukrainian President Zelensky was not about Trump's 2020 political rivals but about the past actions of former Vice President Joe Biden.
Biden has admitted to pressuring the Ukrainian government into firing a prosecutor that was investigating Burisma, a company that Hunter Biden, Joe Bidens son, served as board member. Hunter Biden lacked the experience for the board position, but nevertheless drew a monthly salary of $50,000 or more.
Rep. Scalise says it was these actions of former Vice President Joe Biden that Trump had a legal obligation to discuss with Zelensky.
 




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