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Politics and General Debates Thread

RedCowboy

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The President is 1/3 of our government and he is the chief law enforcement officer, it's his job to see justice is done by carrying out and executing the nations laws and what is going on right now is extremely bad for Americas world image, it's shameful and wrong, Trump did nothing wrong to seek justice, he did not ask for shit to be made up like Schiff said and the senate would never remove him over this nonsense, this will hurt the ability of future Presidents to do their job, this makes America weaker and is shameful, I hope the dems lose the house for this transparently petty damaging waste of time and money.

I understand this is also/mostly about protecting Biden and those upstream of him, this impeachment fracas will scare foreign countries and impede truthful information from so easily coming out, but the Biden corruption cat is out of the bag now and this impeachment noise won't put it back. It's no surprise Biden changed his story about talking to his son concerning his business dealings in Ukraine after this golfing picture came out, that's the Ukrainian gas company exec Devon Archer on the left, the idea that Joe never talked to his son about his " work " after this pic is so far beyond plausible deniability that Joe had to change his story, in short Joe Biden lied.

 
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paul1598419

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You think a photo of Biden with his son and some guy from the Ukrainian gas company is proof of corruption?! That is total nonsense. This story has been investigated to death by many top reporters long ago. Trump believes if he can smear Biden it will not only help him politically, but also take the public's ire off of him too. It will do neither. What is amazing is Trump is still chasing this as a real story even though it's been done to death already. Don't forget he is also chasing another conspiracy theory that there is a server in Ukraine that links the DNC to hackers there that proves the Russians didn't interfere with the 2016 election though there is no evidence at all that this ever occurred or that this server ever existed. This is Trump's main tactic, to try to push nonsense theories about Obama or any other political rival thinking it will make the public not pay attention to his own political crimes. The polls are showing quite clearly that this is not working for him. Nearly daily there are new examples that show his abuse of power for purely political purposes. And it has only been just over a week since the House started the impeachment inquiry. If this continues, it will only get worse and Trump thinks that saying these things out in the open will somehow make it not look l;ie he tried very hard to cover all of this up. The cover up is the proof that he knew this was way out of bounds.
 

RedCowboy

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Your assertions of " investigated to death " and " done to death " don't satisfy me in the least, but if what you say was actually true then the dems wouldn't be freaking out and looking to derail fact finding, but the fact that they are freaking out over Trump simply doing his job is a very strong indication that others in the Obama admin. knew about this and there's likely more dirt to be discovered, and they don't want it to be discovered, this impeachment nonsense is not about anything Trump did wrong, it's about scaring other nations away from sharing information about the Obama admin. and Biden.
 
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paul1598419

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It was already shown that Biden was only the messenger when it came to getting Shokin removed from his position. There were many heads of state that wanted him out as he would not investigate anyone, including Barisma which was the company Hunter Biden worked for. This is a political hack job orchestrated by Trump to defame his political rival. He thought it was hidden well in the covert server, but the whistle blower brought it to light. The Democrats in the House are only doing their duty as oversight of the executive branch as that has not been done at all until they took the House in 2018 with a massive 40+ seat turnover. Does anyone still wonder why that turnover happened? There are many voters who have known about Trump's illegal efforts in his position as president and feel it is high time he was investigated. Obama did nothing illegal as far as getting Shokin removed either. The French as well as other EU leaders also had a hand in his removal. Why does Trump always seem to try to relitigate these people now out of office? It is a distraction from his telling members of his administration that if they will break the law to further his agenda he will pardon them. And many other strange ideas coming from this president. No one who has held this office before has told people to violate the law without being investigated. Nixon. He is certainly taking this seriously now.
 

RedCowboy

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You keep parroting the nonsense, this impeachment ploy is not going to do what you want.
Trump did not use the IRS to target democratic groups like Obama used the IRS to target tea party activist, Trump didn't hide the phone call he released it, Trump did nothing wrong.
While there is much real work that needs to be done we waste time with this nonsense and I think people will show their disgust at the polls come the election.


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I don't like political activist judges but it's part of our system and injunctions are used on both sides, some pro gun judges have weighed in and will again in the future, Trump does observe injunctions issued by federal courts and waits for a SCOTUS ruling so in his frustration Trump said that bit about pardoning those who ignore injunctions against what he's trying to do for America, I agree he shouldn't have said that but he said it in frustration and as far as I know ZERO lawbreakers have been pardoned by Trump on these grounds, dumb thing to say but nothing has come of it, now Obama used executive privilege to hide his Fast and Furious scandal and that should have been investigated and we should have seen an impeachment, also Benghazi, the IRS targeting tea parties, ect..........
 
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paul1598419

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Yeah, I've heard you say that Democrats will lose the House over this impeachment inquiry. I doubt it, but we won't know until 2020. If republicans had any real impeachable offenses against Obama they would have done so. I've heard all the conspiracy theories before. Trump did hide the phone calls until they were brought to light by the whistle blower. Releasing them now does not absolve him of obstruction of justice. But, it is funny that you think that it does.
 

RedCowboy

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Trump did NOT hide the phone call, he released it.
White House security people may have moved it to a more secure server to prevent unauthorized leaking, cute try once again to make something out of nothing but it won't work, don't get your hopes up on this nonsense, Trump will not be put out of office on account of this farce.
 
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paul1598419

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What makes you believe that a vote needs to happen before the House can start an impeachment inquiry? It is not stated that way in the constitution. Trump is using this nonsense to continue to ignore subpoenas, but that is also just wrong and gives him some plausible reasoning, in his own mind. It is still an impeachable article as it was in 1974. The call was moved to a covert server because it was so very damaging as has been seen since it was brought to light by the whistle blower compliant. It definitely shows intent to obscure it for coming to light as fewer people would have access to it there. Trump knew it was there, or should have known. Either way it is an offense. If this is so bad for Democrats why are the polls not reflecting that? Every time they take a new poll more voters are in favor of this impeachment inquiry. More so than are against it.
 

RedCowboy

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Polls are about half and half but I don't believe the polls or their small changes mean much at all, just like the polls put Hillary way ahead but that didn't happen either.

Trump did nothing wrong, it's his job to enforce our laws and seek justice and protecting Biden and those upstream of him is what this is all about, Joe Biden lied then changed his story, I bet he will change it again before it's over.

 

paul1598419

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Trump is sure coming unhinged for someone who has nothing to worry about. He tweeted 30+ messages last week in less than an hour attacking everyone from the whistle blower to both Bidens in this story and House Democrats. Even the Senate isn't backing him up like they have in the past. That is because he keeps changing his mind over how to handle this and they don't want to get Trumped again when he decides to do something else no one saw coming.

Joe Biden was the messenger who was tasked by the Obama administration to get Shokin removed from office. By doing so he was likely placing his son in danger of an investigation as Shokin wasn't investigating anyone. But, Hunter Biden was never the person anyone was looking to investigate as he had only a board membership in Barisma. He was the adult son of Joe and since he had done nothing illegal in Ukraine, there was nothing to investigate. This is just a Trump conspiracy theory like the crowdstrike server that is supposed to be hidden in Ukraine that proves the 2016 election was hacked by Democrats and not Russians, regardless of the massive evidence documented in the Mueller report.
 

RedCowboy

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That's just political spin and you have wrong information, Hunter Biden was to be questioned by Ukraine investigators/auditors.
I can tell you what happened, they dirty bastards just knew Hillary would win, but she didn't and that left a mess, Trump is poking at the closet door and they don't want all the skellingtons falling out, but it's too late now.


 

Shakenawake

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I find myself in the strange position of largely agreeing with both of you ( paul and red) but I think neither of you can see the forest for the trees

 

RedCowboy

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Government is hella corrupt, has been for a very long time, but Trump is still better than Biden or Warren, however I would choose Sanders over Warren if that was the choice.............at the moment I don't see Trump losing to Biden or Warren, Sanders could have a chance............but will he get that chance, he is after all a white man and that's very unpopular with many democrat voters, ATM it is looking like Warren will face Trump and Warren is just flat awful so any democrat voter who's not voting on gender will not feel right about Warren and many may simply not vote, but the vote against her will be strong.
 

Shakenawake

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Government is hella corrupt, has been for a very long time, but Trump is still better than Biden or Warren, however I would choose Sanders over Warren if that was the choice.............at the moment I don't see Trump losing to Biden or Warren, Sanders could have a chance............but will he get that chance, he is after all a white man and that's very unpopular with many democrat voters, ATM it is looking like Warren will face Trump and Warren is just flat awful so any democrat voter who's not voting on gender will not feel right about Warren and many may simply not vote, but the vote against her will be strong.
Well you surprise me red. Any dem who plays the identity politics and votes for a woman just because she is a woman and disregards the issues is really lame. I'm all for a first woman president but not at the expense of the issues. Playing the woman card didnt seem to work too well for HRC last time though.

I have about as much faith in the polls as you do red, never wise to prematurely count the chickens as it were. One figure to note is the sheer number of individual donors sanders has. The others dont come close. All of the media has it out for him so I wouldnt put it past them to skew the polls or cherry pick them. We have a ways to go before the primary.

I heard one poll I have a hard time believing. I heard theres one that shows Bernie beating Trump..... in Texas.
 

Encap

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I imagine Sanders is toast as far as running for several reasons among them who is going to nominate, run, and elect an 80 year old heart attack victim socialist President? Pretty far fetched even as a day dream if you think about it.
The entire Democrat field of potential candidates is pretty lame/limited in a lot of ways.
Now there is talk of running Hillary again. lol
 
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Shakenawake

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I imagine Sanders is toast as far as runnig for several reasons among them who is going to run and elect an 80 year old heart attack victim socialist?
Me I guess. Trump is only 5 years younger btw.

I would like to see Bernie pick Tulsi as his running mate but I'm not sure how likely that is. Her healthcare plan I'm not as much a fan of compared to Bernie but in many other ways she is the most like him. She has always had his back, even resigned from the DNC after what they did to him. If he did kick the bucket I feel like she would do the most to carry on but I could be mistaken.

And Bernie is a socialist Democrat btw, or democratic socialist. Some disambiguation would help them a bit but this isnt the same as being a post- capitalist socialist.
 




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