Noob Question about concert Lasers

[CarBoy]

Sorry if this has been asked before, I just found this site while looking to get my 1st Laser.

So last December the wife took me to the Australian Pink Floyd concert.
I have been to may different concerts where Lasers were used but this is the 1st time I had ever seen a Laser hit anyone in the crowd.
I remember looking around enjoying the show and saw a beam hit this guy in the shoulder.... I told my wife that I had never seen that happen before and that it seemed dangerous to me. A few songs later I was sitting facing forward and they seemed to be "panning" a green Laser around the crowd again and BAM!! I get swiped right across my left eye. It caused immediate pain...not killing me pain but a nice dull wow that light is way bright kind of pain. Followed by a kind of headache feeling in the back of my eye. I did not notice any loss of vision or see any spots.

I am wondering a couple of things.

1) What is the typical power of Lasers used in concerts.

2) Is this type thing normal at concerts now? Isn't this dangerous?

3) Could this have caused damage that I am unaware of, or cause issues later on in life?

Thanks

 

[Bionic-Badger]

First, if you're worried that you have eye damage, go see an eye doctor right-away. Don't depend on assessments of people on a messageboard. That said, here are some answers to your questions:

1) The lasers can vary in power with respect to the distance to audience, the speed of the scanning, divergence, etc. For professional venues, the lasers should be eyesafe at distances the laser can hit the audience. Whether that has been correctly implemented and tested is another matter.

2) It's more prevalent in Europe and other places, not the US. Lawsuits are probably why "audience scanning" is rarely performed in the US. Even if the lasers are tested to be safe there is always a question as to whether some error or some eye damage still occurred. There is also the issue of time effort in ensuring the lasers are safe for interaction with the audience.

Such scanning can be safe if done right. If the laser beam is eyesafe by the time it reaches the audience there is no hazard.

3) Maybe... but you were probably just flash-blinded, not permanently blinded. If you were permanently blinded you'd probably notice the damage to your vision. Even with eye damage, your eyes have the remarkable ability to repair themselves over time, and even with permanent damage your brain can compensate for effects on your vision. That is not to say it is good or okay to be blinded by lasers; however, your body is adept at repairing itself, and sometimes this even hinders the ability for professionals to even detect that your eyes were damaged.

If you don't detect and problems now, you're probably fine. I don't think audience scanning is a good thing, but at professional venues it's usually done right and you probably just got flash-blinded in a relatively dark concert which isn't fun. If you're still worried, see an eye specialist as soon as possible.

 

[blasterman]

Since this is Pink Floyd and not some local band I assume we're not talking about a 10mw Chauvet laser. I would assume we're talking about a laser in the 5-20 watt range.

Some years ago Paramount had a touring Pink Floyd tribute laser show, and I caught it every year. First, the music was cool. Second, the roadies we're cool and let me get up and close with the 26watt Argon they were running. This laser could fill a medium size concert stadium with an almost solid wall of light, but never came closer than 20 feet to any eyeline. I can't imagine the damage this thing would cause if it were crowd scanned, even for a millisecond.

I've been to a lot of concerts, and I can't imagine the lighting director for a mainstream band crowd scanning a big laser. It's just too risky in terms of negative publicity no matter what country it is. I would assume it was a mistake and somebody flubbed the initial set-up during the soundcheck. Or, a secondary mirror came lose due to heavy bass, etc. It happens.....

If your eyes were damaged, you'll see artifacts and/or a blind spot(s) in daylight. I suspect though the laser was moving too fast to cause a real problem other than initial discomfort.

 

[CarBoy]

Since this is Pink Floyd and not some local band I assume we're not talking about a 10mw Chauvet laser. I would assume we're talking about a laser in the 5-20 watt range.

Some years ago Paramount had a touring Pink Floyd tribute laser show, and I caught it every year. First, the music was cool. Second, the roadies we're cool and let me get up and close with the 26watt Argon they were running. This laser could fill a medium size concert stadium with an almost solid wall of light, but never came closer than 20 feet to any eyeline. I can't imagine the damage this thing would cause if it were crowd scanned, even for a millisecond.

I've been to a lot of concerts, and I can't imagine the lighting director for a mainstream band crowd scanning a big laser. It's just too risky in terms of negative publicity no matter what country it is. I would assume it was a mistake and somebody flubbed the initial set-up during the soundcheck. Or, a secondary mirror came lose due to heavy bass, etc. It happens.....

If your eyes were damaged, you'll see artifacts and/or a blind spot(s) in daylight. I suspect though the laser was moving too fast to cause a real problem other than initial discomfort.

I have been to the Paramount Pictures Laser show that you are referring to as well as the real deal Pink Floyd concert. The concert that this happened at was a well known tribute band called Australian or Ausi Pink Floyd, as well as many other concerts that have used Lasers. But this was the 1st and only time I have ever seen them "in the crowd".

I have not experienced any of the things you described, so I guess I'm lucky....and thankful.


Thank you and Bionic for your response.

 

[KGB_Productions]

Basically only here in the USA is scanning the crowd frowned upon but even here you can get a license to legally scan the audience IF you have the right gear. Its been proven 1000's of times over and over that scanning is safe.... there has never been a report of vision loss from laser scanners at a show(except the Russia incident) so I think its safe to say that you are fine.

Only time scanning is a problem is when you have people running the shows who dont know the math or just dont care.



-Brooks

 

[blasterman]

This brings up an interesting project I'm working on, and it's facinating how it correlates to the OP's question.

I have a bunch of cheap Reke-01's, which are inexpensive Chinese servo driven scanners you can get for about $50. They come typically armed with 200mw reds or 30-80mW greens, but go higher. You can call them 'animation lasers', that is, if you think squiggly lines on a wall represent squares and rectangles.

Anways, I haven't been able to figure out what to do do with them because they aren't bright enough to fully point them away from the crowd and be of use, and there's no way I'd point them at a crowd because they do stall for a fraction of a second during their program. I was just using them for parts. However, I see bands and DJ's pointing the things at crowds all time, and you can also see this on youtube. Idiots...

Anyways, just for the hay of it I disabled one of the motors so it's just scanning horizontally, and suddenly I had an effective sound active single plane scanner and radically improved the safety factor. I can now elevate them at an exact altitude above my crowd with zero risk, and I was even a bit naughty and upgraded the diodes we liked the effect so much. I punch my tweaked out foggers right through the scanning planes and get a glorious liquid sky that people totally dig.

So in short, yeah, this is all about application. I have some generic scanners that technically meet crowd scanning specs (did the math) but they don't have the certs, and I simply prefer to err on the side of less business risk.

 

[Bionic-Badger]

By disabling the vertical-positioning mirror, do you mean you fixed it to a value, or just pulled the plug? I'd do the former so that you're sure it stays at a fixed angle.

 

[blasterman]

Did both

I also rigged a safety wire on the front of the unit so there's no way it can tilt down; vibration, etc. Covering all the bases.

I realize this still doesn't meet the typical FDA 'bru-hah-hah', but again, I have to balance that with business objectives. I'm shooting some videos of the units in action in the next week or two and will post them.

Friend of mine was at a show last night and got smacked in the eye with what I suspect was a Reke-01, and he's still sending me angry PM's to call the 'laser police', etc. I told him to call the bar owner an perhaps get a little nasty.