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LPF's Religion

Cyparagon

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No it clearly doesn't. I'm surprised you would think that in light of the atrocities committed in history and in modern societies.

Are you saying that because murder happens, that we don't think murder is bad? Are you saying that because genocide happens, that we don't think genocide is bad?

Are you saying it is not reasonable to value well-being and autonomy and work together with your neighbor?

Darwin saw the implications of atheism on morality, why dont you?

Your wording here is shit. You're presuming he's inferred the right implications just because you think it furthers your position.

"if we were like bees, then we'd be like bees" is pretty laughable to me, and not the least bit insightful.

Are you saying anatomically modern humans would not be human to you, but animals, if they contained the capacity to reason but did not have a consensus on morality?

Closer. I would say instead anatomically modern humans that had the capacity to reason, but did not value well-being, autonomy, and cooperation, would not be subject to the same moral judgement as my temporal neighbor.

Parrots, chimps, pigs, crows, rats, and dogs can reason. There is a spectrum here that you are trying to misrepresent as a dichotomy. I don't think a murder committed by a chimp is identical to a murder committed by man. Is it still Wrong? Maybe, but certainly not to the same extent and not for the same reason.
 
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InfinitusEquitas

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Cyparagon

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Last week I walked by a bar call "The Thirteenth step". Made me giggle.
 

paul1598419

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I've known some places that will give out a free drink for your sober chip. They collect them. Hilarious. :mad:
 
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Rivem

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I've known some places that will give out a free drink for your sober chip. They collect them. Hilarious. :mad:

I get that it's supposed to be a gag, but I agree that's still pretty messed up. While they might make some money off of alcoholic behavior, it's still terrible to do anything that might encourage it.
 

Benm

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I get that it's supposed to be a gag, but I agree that's still pretty messed up. While they might make some money off of alcoholic behavior, it's still terrible to do anything that might encourage it.

Well, the thing is that in america most programs to recover from alcoholism are AA, and based on higher powers, i.e. religious in nature.

As I understand in some cases in the US people are actually court ordered to follow such programmes, even if they are not christian or religious at a all. Keeping that in mind i think it's a fair gag really.
 

paul1598419

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It depends on which example you are talking about. If it is IE comic strip, then yes, that's funny. If it is bars handing out drinks for a sober chip, then, no, it isn't. These bars actually do offer a free drink in exchange for a one, two, ten year sober chip. For some people, that first drink is a fall all the way back to a place before they became sober. It is a mean spirited way to make money off of a person's weakness.
 

hakzaw1

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NOT AN EASY THING..
HAK'S Accu picks (quotes) in his last days.

#1

'Not to mention the universe in many ways is infinite and most of it will most likely never be seen any of us on this planet or by anyone we currently know now or will ever know before we die therefor we certainly don't know everything there is to know now nor will we most likely know everything there is to know anytime in the conceivable future.....


RUNNER=UP QUOTE
''
AND...
 
Wow there is a lot of info you are missing that we currently know about the big bang and alot of what happened after it like the was no matter or even atoms fractions of a second after, the universe had to expand and cool off a bit before anything like the formation of atoms could happen, BUT there is much, much more that we now know that we didn't not long ago and if anyone would like to learn about it they should put down the Religious book and stop trying to kill people in the name of something they believe and instead pick up as many science books and learn what's in them as the short time on this planet will allow !
+++++++++^^^ wow =you can say that again..no wait n/m
________________
and best reply to accu from a Vet:
Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/l...-s-religion-34223-post408241.html/lpost408241
 
People who don't like their beliefs laughed at, shouldn't have such funny beliefs. :p :p

Peace,
dave
____________
I promise to never post here again..ty and good day
 

Benm

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It depends on which example you are talking about. If it is IE comic strip, then yes, that's funny. If it is bars handing out drinks for a sober chip, then, no, it isn't. These bars actually do offer a free drink in exchange for a one, two, ten year sober chip. For some people, that first drink is a fall all the way back to a place before they became sober. It is a mean spirited way to make money off of a person's weakness.

I meant the comic was funny mainly.

Bars offering a free drink for a AA sober chip could be a sinister concept, though i doubt it would make much of a difference: If someone is intent on not drinking alcohol an incentive of a few dollars worth should not make a difference.

One you encounter so many occassions where alcohol is served free of charge to the person drinking it (from corporate drinks to weddings and all) so i don't see that big a difference.

Perhaps it's a bit of a promotional stunt for some bars, but i doubt they actually have any people trading in a sober chip for a single drink. And as long as they stick with that single drink i don't really see the problem either - i suppose they will have to pay for the next ones.

It would be different if they offered a night of free drinking in exchange for such a chip, actually getting something drunk for free. But if they did that i bet there would be tons of fake chips in circulation, sounds like a great deal to me ;)
 

Cyparagon

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I don't understand the AA goal to begin with. "I've had big problems with X in the past, so I need to avoid X for the rest of my life" isn't often reasonable. What if you took that stance with food or love? Why is responsible drinking never a solution?
 

paul1598419

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That does sound good, and though I have never had the problem myself, I've known people whose personality changes with alcohol and once they start drinking they won't stop. It isn't a matter of will power. They are genetically hardwired to have this problem with alcohol. What I find disturbing is the abstinence idea being used to treat other problems like marijuana use, gambling, $ex, and many other neurotic problems people have. It isn't a cure all panacea that can work for all problems. Abstinence from alcohol does seem like the only alternative for some people.
 
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Cyparagon

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I've known people whose personality changes with alcohol and once they start drinking they won't stop. It isn't a matter of will power... Abstinence from alcohol does seem like the only alternative for some people

Maybe for some people abstinence might be a better option, sure. But again, why is it NEVER an option in AA to drink responsibly?

I've known people whose personality changes with food and once they start eating they won't stop. It isn't a matter of will power. Does this mean abstinence from food is the only alternative for some people?
 

Benm

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It's probably the simple way out: You do not need to drink alcohol to survive, so you can abstain from it completely.

With food this is out of the question, someone that eats far too much cannot be convinced never to eat again as that would end it death by starvation.

I think what AA tries to do is not to really solve the problem, but go about the idea of not having the first drink, so you'll certainly not have the second or 15th. I cannot imagine this being the -only- solution though, people that suffer from obesity -can- recover to a healthy amount of food intake just fine, and refrain from having that extra burger/fries/etc while still eating food.
 

paul1598419

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Most people with a drinking problem just stop. It becomes more of a burden than fun and they chose to quit. So, by far AA doesn't stop the majority of problem drinkers. It's true that no one needs to drink and the way AA was set up years ago it is their policy. Now, there's NA, and every other kind of XA you can think of. I get it with AA, but the others are just silly IMO.

Really?! You've known people whose personality changes when they eat? I have never known a single person whose personality changes with food. I've seen people who have eating disorders, but they are the same person eating or not. The kind of personality change I am talking about with alcohol is quite stark and very easy to see. They are likely to do many things they wouldn't normally do when they are drinking. I don't know of a single person who changes like that with food.
 
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