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LaserPhysics Reliant 300WC help

diachi

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::: Update :::

Had some time this weekend to fabricate a cowl/plenum adapter as well as running some 240v into my family room.
shes now in here new home until i can build a proper optics table but at least now i have better/safer access to her internals as well as a much cooler running environment vs the garage!




now i can get some proper tube V/A readings and really get into her! :D


Awesome, that looks good! Any more lines come back after some more "baking in"? :D
 



FRITZ HID

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Awesome, that looks good! Any more lines come back after some more "baking in"? :D

not yet. i find it odd that the green pops in then fades out after a second or 3 when it's turned up so i want to get some hard #'s before i continue. i DID run it thru some dicros i have lay'n around and the reds are very strong, and one of the 2 blues is searingly bright.
 

diachi

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not yet. i find it odd that the green pops in then fades out after a second or 3 when it's turned up so i want to get some hard #'s before i continue. i DID run it thru some dicros i have lay'n around and the reds are very strong, and one of the 2 blues is searingly bright.


Hmmm, not sure why it'd be doing that - could be a delayed change in gas pressure due to the increased current/resulting temperature increase thus killing the gain on the green lines. The man that would know is Steve Roberts (LASERFAQ, Mixedgas).

Your bright blue line is *probably* 488nm, that's the strongest of the blue lines. Should be a sort of teal colour, like cyan but with a little hint of green thrown in.


Also, 5000 posts, finally.
 

FRITZ HID

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Hmmm, not sure why it'd be doing that - could be a delayed change in gas pressure due to the increased current/resulting temperature increase thus killing the gain on the green lines. The man that would know is Steve Roberts (LASERFAQ, Mixedgas).

Your bright blue line is *probably* 488nm, that's the strongest of the blue lines. Should be a sort of teal colour, like cyan but with a little hint of green thrown in.


Also, 5000 posts, finally.

well... the green shows up nicely at startup but fades after the tube gets cooking....., then if i turn it down to 1/2 power or less for a couple of seconds then back up to full the green will come in for a few seconds then fades... i can't figure on why they wouldn't be there at lower power OR on high when warmed... unless i have a borderline mirror alignment issue and that's a bug i don't want to get into unless i absolutely have to.
 

ultimatekaiser

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Yeah sounds like it could be alignment altering from the thermal change, but also could be a gas circulation problem. It's common in mixed has ion tubes, especially older or high pressure ones. I've even caught a few that struck through the gas return and not the bore before. The returns bet debris in them as the laser runs from sputter and other such things sometimes. And all the gas ends up at one end of the tube.
 

LSRFAQ

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Two lines with a third weak blue is the "Red Blues", in old school water cooled laser show parlance. You have a severely high pressure tube if the red and blue dominate. When the pressure rises, the transition probability favors 647 and 482 Krypton lines, and your other blue is probably a weak Argon 488.

Second choice is alignment, but that would show by gently poking the outer portion of the mirror mount with an insulated, stiff, probe.

Alignment is unlikely in a LaserPhysics.

Conversely if the tube pressure is very, very, very low, you also get a red and blue, but the blue at low pressure is 488...

LP heads drift all over the place as they warm up, then they settle down..


The Red Blues often occurred in the early days of Entertainment Lasers, when Mixed Gas and pure Krypton lasers often had gas pressure control systems or Gas Fill Systems attached to the tube. If the tube got overfilled, all you saw was Red and Blue, and maybe a flash of weak green if you changed the variable magnetic field. Adding a magnet array will not help you in an Aircooled with the Red Blues... Although careful placement of a few small supermagnets has been known to enhance the Argon 514 lines in 60X and Omni 532/643 lasers. At least until the gas pressure drops to mid life.
I'm the one who did the magnet study mentioned in the FAQ...

Which is why the first thing I often do is disable Autofill on all lasers I own or operate.

Laser Physics lasers need a cooling shroud around the tube for pressure balance, the tube can cook itself rapidly without the shroud.

I'm retubing mine soon, I found a "new in the crate" tube at a dying company that used a lot of LPs for night clubs. (Sorry, there was only one WC tube, although there are some Argons, and I know who bought them.) If the new one is any good, I might sell you my old tube cheap, as it still emits green and blue but no yellow if the current is ramped up. (low pressure, slightly dirty internal optics)


Steve (Mixedgas)

PS, Kaiser, see these links , however spectral behavior of short air-cooled mixed-gas tubes with a much higher fill pressure is far different then a meter long medium frame laser at 200 mT. The graphs should tell you that optimizing and gas mix and optics for a balanced RGB is quite a design problem. The Polish Paper was most likely done with High Gas Return Flow Series V I90MRA medical tube with an optics set that is very low in output transmission, so everything lases until losses are very high. My experience with pumping mixtures shows you can hit the red-blues far, far, earlier then in the Polish study. Which is why I believe his optics might have been two HRs or a very low transmission OC. He's also using a prism to prevent gain competition.


http://escampig2012.ist.utl.pt/Proceedings/files/Topic 1/escampig2012_submission_364.pdf

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US5214658.pdf
 
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FRITZ HID

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Two lines with a third weak blue is the "Red Blues", in old school water cooled laser show parlance. You have a severely high pressure tube if the red and blue dominate. When the pressure rises, the transition probability favors 647 and 482 Krypton lines, and your other blue is probably a weak Argon 488.

Second choice is alignment, but that would show by gently poking the outer portion of the mirror mount with an insulated, stiff, probe.

Alignment is unlikely in a LaserPhysics.

Conversely if the tube pressure is very, very, very low, you also get a red and blue, but the blue at low pressure is 488...

LP heads drift all over the place as they warm up, then they settle down..


The Red Blues often occurred in the early days of Entertainment Lasers, when Mixed Gas and pure Krypton lasers often had gas pressure control systems or Gas Fill Systems attached to the tube. If the tube got overfilled, all you saw was Red and Blue, and maybe a flash of weak green if you changed the variable magnetic field. Adding a magnet array will not help you in an Aircooled with the Red Blues... Although careful placement of a few small supermagnets has been known to enhance the Argon 514 lines in 60X and Omni 532/643 lasers. At least until the gas pressure drops to mid life.
I'm the one who did the magnet study mentioned in the FAQ...

Which is why the first thing I often do is disable Autofill on all lasers I own or operate.

Laser Physics lasers need a cooling shroud around the tube for pressure balance, the tube can cook itself rapidly without the shroud.

I'm retubing mine soon, I found a "new in the crate" tube at a dying company that used a lot of LPs for night clubs. (Sorry, there was only one WC tube, although there are some Argons, and I know who bought them.) If the new one is any good, I might sell you my old tube cheap, as it still emits green and blue but no yellow if the current is ramped up. (low pressure, slightly dirty internal optics)


Steve (Mixedgas)

PS, Kaiser, see these links , however spectral behavior of short air-cooled mixed-gas tubes with a much higher fill pressure is far different then a meter long medium frame laser at 200 mT. The graphs should tell you that optimizing and gas mix and optics for a balanced RGB is quite a design problem. The Polish Paper was most likely done with High Gas Return Flow Series V I90MRA medical tube with an optics set that is very low in output transmission, so everything lases until losses are very high. My experience with pumping mixtures shows you can hit the red-blues far, far, earlier then in the Polish study. Which is why I believe his optics might have been two HRs or a very low transmission OC. He's also using a prism to prevent gain competition.


http://escampig2012.ist.utl.pt/Proceedings/files/Topic 1/escampig2012_submission_364.pdf

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US5214658.pdf



ok so... as i understand it, the "red blues" in an overpressure tube is the result of gasses coming out of the tube itself, correct? if that's the case, will running the tube force the extra pressure back into the tube or is it a permanent condition? if it's permanent, would regassing the tube be a solution? i understand it's expensive but to have all or at least most of the stock lines again would be ideal.

i have a long weekend this week so i'm going to do my best to get some accurate tube specs (V/A readings) but i have no factory specs to compare them to.
i'm really hoping to regain some health in this tube but if regassing and/or running to revive is a lost cause, i'll probably just sell the whole works and keep my eyes open for a fully functional unit.
depending on the cost, i'd be open to buying a NOS tube that functions properly but i can't really afford to risk used units unless they are insanely cheap.
 

ultimatekaiser

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Interesting I'll have to look over that Steve. I am aware of small air cooled tubes being higher pressure than their larger frame counterparts, But my knowledge is limited on ion lasers, I'm far more knowledgable with henes and somewhat lesser extent-hecds.

Until we get a read on his operating parameters, not sure how much can be done beyond speculation. If run without its factory setup and shroud, I do know these bake really fast as you mentioned, and if that released all of its buried gas, it's not coming down anytime soon.

Reworking ion tubes is a very non-trivial endeavor...it would be probably a couple grand at least.
 

FRITZ HID

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alright, got some numbers.....


at start-up, cold tube..... Low 5.72A @ 186v
high 11.70A @ 191v

at Warmed up (green fade out).... high 11.67A @ 185v
low 5.69A @ 175v

i did take an insulated probe to the OC and found the green will pop back in on high only but no other lines pop in.
also, the dimmer blue and red in this picture...


started dimming the longer the tube ran. wasn't extreme but i could notice over the period of about 10 mins that they dimmed by about 30%.

(P.S. tube has always had shroud/plenum intact and used for all firings, however, the fan Had previously been slowed slightly due to cowl interference but that's been fixed)
 
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ultimatekaiser

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Well, based on what I know of these little Ion tubes, those values sound a bit low, but not unreasonably so. Most of the mixed gas tubes I see hover in the 190s and even a few bump into the 200V range. I wonder if it was weak when it was retired, but as it sat for a long time, the gasses buried in the tube slowly worked back into it, and that made it somewhat hard to start due to the cathode already being pretty tired. Then as you ran it, it quickly re-buried the gas and now its back to its End of life state, which would mean running it any more will actually damage the cathode further?
 
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FRITZ HID

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Hi Guys, sorry for the long delay in updates....
been prepping for our move to WI next month.
i've been maint burning for about 90-120 mins a month, little has changed thus far however, using a probe i can tweak the mirrors and get all the colors (rgb) to come in after warmup so i think for now i'll just keep maint burns running until i can get the new lab set up after the move, then i'll be devising an X,Y mirror alignment tool and see if i cant get this beast closer to full functionality. :)
 

VidalWolf

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Hey. I had a 300 WC for a couple years. It had some pressure problems. I measured the wavelengths affected with an Ocean optics spectrometer. I loosely documented how adjusting the current level changed the lines that were lasing. Hope it has some value for yah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3M_dl52_rM
 

GooeyGus

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Hey Guys,
I think I also have one of these laserphysics whitelight units laying around. I've never tried to fire it up because I wasn't sure how to defeat the interlocks. Anyone know what I need to have in place at a mnimum for it to fire up?

It has been sitting in my garage for the last year and I feel terrible, because it could be one of the coolest lasers I have!

Thanks!!
 
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diachi

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Hey Guys,
I think I also have one of these laserphysics whitelight units laying around. I've never tried to fire it up because I wasn't sure how to defeat the interlocks. Anyone know what I need to have in place at a mnimum for it to fire up?

It has been sitting in my garage for the last year and I feel terrible, because it could be one of the coolest lasers I have!

Thanks!!


Give Krazer a shout, he has one. As does swamidog (Christopher Short if you're on the FB laserists group). They need 220V IIRC.

Might be able to find some contact details for Krazer on his site (if you can't reach him here), or information about the 300WC here: laser physics reliant 300wc

Good to see you're still around. :beer:
 
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FRITZ HID

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Hey Guys,
I think I also have one of these laserphysics whitelight units laying around. I've never tried to fire it up because I wasn't sure how to defeat the interlocks. Anyone know what I need to have in place at a minimum for it to fire up?

It has been sitting in my garage for the last year and I feel terrible, because it could be one of the coolest lasers I have!

Thanks!!


Lemme know if you can't find the interlock pinout, i can pop mine off and meter it out for you.

220v 30A is what i have mine on and it works beautifully. other than that, nothing else is needed for use.... until you really wanna play with it of course. lol
 

GooeyGus

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I've been looking for some time and cant find anything. If you know which pins to jump together to get it to start, that would help immensely!!!

In the mean time, here are some pics of mine:

bqRZYRA.jpg


evrR85m.jpg


bkMpXlf.jpg


hWwW7e0.jpg
 
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