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Ethical Question about Buying Lasers from Dhgate and Aliexpress

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Going through dhgate and aliexpress I come across many lasers that I know for a fact are not true power, but the people still list them as 100% real, power guaranteed etc, and since I now have a lpm I can actually check the real power. Also both websites have a dispute system, has anyone tried it and is it actually helpful?
I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I know will be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical? or would it just be me trying to cheat the seller? Since I know the results will be much lower, but then again the seller is also lying about the power and since MOST buyers dont have a lpm, the sellers feedback is really high like 95%. Also the few sellers that are honest and know about true power suffer since if a person unaware looks at a 200mW for $50 and a 1500mW for $35 ofcourse he will go for the $35 one, but in reality the $50 is probably 200mW or close but the other one will barely make it to 100mW
 

EpicHam

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Going through dhgate and aliexpress I come across many lasers that I know for a fact are not true power, but the people still list them as 100% real, power guaranteed etc, and since I now have a lpm I can actually check the real power. Also both websites have a dispute system, has anyone tried it and is it actually helpful?
I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I know will be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical? or would it just be me trying to cheat the seller? Since I know the results will be much lower, but then again the seller is also lying about the power and since MOST buyers dont have a lpm, the sellers feedback is really high like 95%. Also the few sellers that are honest and know about true power suffer since if a person unaware looks at a 200mW for $50 and a 1500mW for $35 ofcourse he will go for the $35 one, but in reality the $50 is probably 200mW or close but the other one will barely make it to 100mW
It depends on the wording theyve used.
If its clearly stated that it WILL be overspecs without any tolerance for error. ... then you are in all your rights to demand a proper replacement to a complete refund by RMA it under a reselleable condition.

But do bear in mind , the vendors sometimes does dirty tricks such as fine prints in the description offering a guarantee of only certain mW... and even if your LPM proved their laser to be underspecs, they can easily come up with excuses such as . ohhh losses in the collimation lens .. oh poor temperature conditions , ohhh you are underdriving it ... ohh stop complaining.

Just buy from a reputable source eh
 
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ok, heres an example of my past 2 purchases, I bought a 1000mW labelled green for $30, (knowing its not 1000mW) it turned out to be 147mW, even though it was much lower, I was happy for what I paid and left decent feedback to the seller. In another case I bought a 200mW thinking its the full 200mW for $90, but it turned out to be 94mW, in that case I showed proof and wanted some money back, since $90 for 94mW is not worth it to me. On the other hand technically the first one I bought labelled 1000mW I could have disputed and got full refund if I returned or get like $5-$10 partial refund. But I do not know if it would be ethical or not to do so. The reason why I am asking this is that I really like this style: 500mw 1000m 532nm Green Laser Pointer Pen with Lock Switch (Black) Free shipping-in Laser Pointers from Office & School Supplies on Aliexpress.com
but I know for a fact that it will not be 500mW even though I have confirmed with the seller. for this price I would want to get atleast 250mW-300mW and I plan on getting it and disputing if it is anything lower, would that be fair enough?
 

firelaser

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Going through dhgate and aliexpress I come across many lasers that I know for a fact are not true power, but the people still list them as 100% real, power guaranteed etc, and since I now have a lpm I can actually check the real power. Also both websites have a dispute system, has anyone tried it and is it actually helpful?
I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I know will be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical? or would it just be me trying to cheat the seller? Since I know the results will be much lower, but then again the seller is also lying about the power and since MOST buyers dont have a lpm, the sellers feedback is really high like 95%. Also the few sellers that are honest and know about true power suffer since if a person unaware looks at a 200mW for $50 and a 1500mW for $35 ofcourse he will go for the $35 one, but in reality the $50 is probably 200mW or close but the other one will barely make it to 100mW

my opinion is if i sold you a 64 GB ipad for $500 and you got it and it was a a 16GB ipad would you complain to ebay?




ok, heres an example of my past 2 purchases, I bought a 1000mW labelled green for $30, (knowing its not 1000mW) it turned out to be 147mW, even though it was much lower, I was happy for what I paid and left decent feedback to the seller. In another case I bought a 200mW thinking its the full 200mW for $90, but it turned out to be 94mW, in that case I showed proof and wanted some money back, since $90 for 94mW is not worth it to me. On the other hand technically the first one I bought labelled 1000mW I could have disputed and got full refund if I returned or get like $5-$10 partial refund. But I do not know if it would be ethical or not to do so. The reason why I am asking this is that I really like this style: 500mw 1000m 532nm Green Laser Pointer Pen with Lock Switch (Black) Free shipping-in Laser Pointers from Office & School Supplies on Aliexpress.com


also one thing you may have to worry about is even if its a decent power, it could be say 300mw,,, but they used a cheap 100mw max diode and cheap drivers,, thus it will break sooner than a better laser,,, so consider this ,,, you spend 100 on a cheap laser,, it breaks in 2 months you buy another,, breaks.. eventually you have spent $400 on them over the next year,, if you have bought a $300 high quality one like from lazerer, rayfross even o like, i have had a 100mw green from them for over a year, it may save you money in the end
 
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to the first part: yes I would complain, but my question is that if I knew that it will turn out to be 16gb and I still bought it on purpose,(to get a refund, but in the case of lasers, I wont know how much lower it is, like back to the green, 1000mW advertised if its like 150, that would be good enough but I would know its lower than advertised but not how much lower) and for the second part, the link I posted is for a different style laser, I just like the host, black with red button so I was looking to get something in that style. And there are few others like that on aliexpress, but in the end I cant tell if the expensive one is not using the cheap diode or its just expensive for no reason, and by the feedback the sellers have decent feedback
 

firelaser

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http://laserpointerforums.com/f41/some-great-sites-sell-laser-77170.html here is some good sites and for your question well since they are lying about the power maybe but then again the price may be relivent to the power you get so id say it would depend on how off it was,, if you got a 500mw laser that was really 100mw and you paid 60 and it was decent quality then maybe not but if it was 50mw and was crappy quality then yes certianly but go with the good sites
 

EpicHam

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my opinion is if i sold you a 64 GB ipad for $500 and you got it and it was a a 16GB ipad would you complain to ebay?




ok, heres an example of my past 2 purchases, I bought a 1000mW labelled green for $30, (knowing its not 1000mW) it turned out to be 147mW, even though it was much lower, I was happy for what I paid and left decent feedback to the seller. In another case I bought a 200mW thinking its the full 200mW for $90, but it turned out to be 94mW, in that case I showed proof and wanted some money back, since $90 for 94mW is not worth it to me. On the other hand technically the first one I bought labelled 1000mW I could have disputed and got full refund if I returned or get like $5-$10 partial refund. But I do not know if it would be ethical or not to do so. The reason why I am asking this is that I really like this style: 500mw 1000m 532nm Green Laser Pointer Pen with Lock Switch (Black) Free shipping-in Laser Pointers from Office & School Supplies on Aliexpress.com


also one thing you may have to worry about is even if its a decent power, it could be say 300mw,,, but they used a cheap 100mw max diode and cheap drivers,, thus it will break sooner than a better laser,,, so consider this ,,, you spend 100 on a cheap laser,, it breaks in 2 months you buy another,, breaks.. eventually you have spent $400 on them over the next year,, if you have bought a $300 high quality one like from lazerer, rayfross even o like, i have had a 100mw green from them for over a year, it may save you money in the end
lol
High quality. :crackup:
 

lasersbee

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Going through dhgate and aliexpress I come across many lasers that I know for a fact are not true power, but the people still list them as 100% real, power guaranteed etc, and since I now have a lpm I can actually check the real power. Also both websites have a dispute system, has anyone tried it and is it actually helpful?
I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I know will be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical? or would it just be me trying to cheat the seller? Since I know the results will be much lower, but then again the seller is also lying about the power and since MOST buyers dont have a lpm, the sellers feedback is really high like 95%. Also the few sellers that are honest and know about true power suffer since if a person unaware looks at a 200mW for $50 and a 1500mW for $35 ofcourse he will go for the $35 one, but in reality the $50 is probably 200mW or close but the other one will barely make it to 100mW
If you admit knowing that the Laser you want to purchase
is below the power advertised and purchase it anyway then
where is the problem with the Laser purchase.
You admitted
being aware of the low Power Laser facts.


You have answered your own questions.....

What you want to do is SCAM the seller since you know what
you are buying and only would buy it so that you can try try
to extort a discount from the seller.


Then you try to justify this Scam by stating the seller is also
lying...

By asking these questions I would now question your honesty....:undecided:

If you had informed the seller that you did indeed have a calibrated
Laser Power Meter and that if the Laser was not up to the stated
Power that you would open a dispute for compensation.

Then you would be honest and up from with the seller and in your
rights to dispute the transaction.


Jerry
 
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EpicHam

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If you admit knowing that the Laser you want to purchase
is below the power advertised and purchase it anyway then
where is the problem with the Laser purchase.
You admitted
being aware of the low Power Laser facts.


You have answered your own questions.....

What you want to do is SCAM the seller.
Since you knew what you were buying and only bought it so
that you can try try to extort a discount from the seller.


Then you try to justify this Scam by stating the seller is also
lying...

By asking these questions I would now question your honesty....:undecided:


Jerry
So basically he's asking the age old question.
Is "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" just.
Scamming the scammers , not for street justice , but for personal gain
 

Spooky

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I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I know will be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical?
It *could* be illegal "Conspiracy to commit extortion" (you have posted here asking while having a "reasonable suspicion" that it is not what is claimed with a view to extorting a partial refund)
Doing such as an individual is Un-ethical, doing it while taking advice on your actions from third parties makes it conspiracy.

The seller *could* have a legal defence, (they had a full and reasonable belief the laser was XXXmw) you however probably wouldn't (your own pre sale admission)

Complaining about one crime isn't justification to commit one yourself.

My neighbour keeps parking on the pavement at the front of the house, ergo because of this I should go and smash all his car windows because he is illegally parked blocking my driveway.....

just my opinion of course

best wishes

Dave

ps: If you buy the laser and it's output is higher than advertised......will you send them more money?
 
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Jerry, i sort of agree with what you are saying.. But saying that, he doesn't entirely know that it will be underspec, he is just assuming it will be. It has nothing to do with trying to scam them? He just wants to know if he takes the chance of buying a laser that "could" be underspec would it be ethical to ask for a refund..

In my opinion you are totally withing your rights to dispute for a partial refund.
If a seller says the output is X and it turns out to be -X then the product they are selling isn't what they claimed it to be, weather you assumed it was going to be or not?
Also Jerry, let's say you sold lpm's that people assumed were out by 80%. Then someone like the OP took the chance of buying one knowing that maybe it could have a problem but also thinking it could be ok then they got it and tested it and it was in fact out by 80% would you just expect them to take it and not complain? Again, even if they assumed there may be a problem in the first place?
Wouldn't it be on you the seller to make sure your product was upto spec In the first place? Or would you say "well you knew it was going to be off so now your the scammer?"
 
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lasersbee

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You have not read the highlighted parts of the OP in Post #8
or did not understand. It is very clear...

If he buys a Laser that he knowingly is underspec and tries
to extort $$ from the seller as he has clearly outlined then
he is clearly trying to Scamming the seller for his own financial
gain.... and for No other reason...

If our LaserBee products were out of spec by 80% we would
have been out of business long ago.
We have invested many thousands of dollars in test equipment
to make sure to take that possibility to as close to zero as we
possibly can.

We also supply a warranty with the LaserBee products that the
$30 Laser seller obviously does not.

Remember that you get what you pay for...

The question is does the OP's scenario admitting to know for a fact
that the Laser is underspec before purchase and Posting so in a Public
Forum constitute a Fraud...
IMO... yes it does...


Jerry
 
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Spooky

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I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I know will be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical?
Is a total different game to

I was wondering that if I buy a laser that I suspect be "not as described" and once I receive it I dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical?
And again different to

I was wondering that if I buy a laser and once I receive it I find it is well below spec and dispute against the seller for a partial refund, would that be ethical?
It's the difference between knowing an item is faulty, suspecting an item may be faulty and having no idea it was going to be faulty.

To me it would be the same as "knowing" the pavement / sidewalk has a raised stone, taking a dive over it deliberately then suing the local authority for compensation.

Far from ethical and probably illegal.

best wishes

Dave
 
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I read every word. Start to finish as per usual. I understand what you are saying..

But,

How does he "Know" it will be underspec? He can assume it will be from past experiences but if the seller advertises it as 1000mW, he has every right to expect 1000mW. Does he not? And if it shows up underspec, like he assumed it would, he again has every right to ask for a partial refund. It isn't scamming.. It is just getting what was advertised. As a consumer, he has the right to get exactly what he paid for even if he "knew" it may be underspec. Weather or not some people find it "ethical" or not is a different story but i find it completely ok.
 
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lasersbee

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I'm not in this member's head...
I go by exactly what is written in the Post.

If he writes "Blue" it is not Green or Red even if
you believe he is saying Red....

He says he knows for a fact... How much clearer
can that be...:thinking:

The OP is obviously asking the consent of the Forum community
to commit Fraud on that seller.


Jerry
 
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You have not read the highlighted parts of the OP in Post #8
or did not understand. It is very clear...

If he buys a Laser that he knowingly is underspec and tries
to extort $$ from the seller as he has clearly outlined then
he is clearly trying to Scamming the seller for his own financial
gain.... and for No other reason...

If our LaserBee products were out of spec by 80% we would
have been out of business long ago.
We have invested many thousands of dollars in test equipment
to make sure to take that possibility to as close to zero as we
possibly can.

We also supply a warranty with the LaserBee products that the
$30 Laser seller obviously does not.

Remember that you get what you pay for...

The question is does the OP's scenario admitting to know for a fact
that the Laser is underspec before purchase and Posting so in a Public
Forum constitute a Fraud...
IMO... yes it does...


Jerry
Jerry, I wasn't saying there is anything wrong with your product's, the reality is the complete opposite. It was an example.

And how would he know "for a fact" that the laser he is getting will be underspec? Even if he had bought off them 10 times before he still doesn't "know for a fact" that the next one will be grossly underspec? Does he? As i said, there would be a major assumption that it may arrive underspec, but if it is advertised as "x" then he has every right to expect "x" when it arrives. Doesn't he?
 




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