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Clarification / Heads-up: RE "MOD9" 9mm Modules

rhd

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Hey,

I wanted to clarify something out of courtesy to Aixiz:

- The MOD9 modules that I commissioned, and have been selling in limited numbers, are NOT made by Aixiz. I'm sure this was plainly clear to everyone, but I wanted to be absolutely explicit about it.

I got a note from Chuck today threatening a Vero trademark proceeding for the modules I had listed on eBay. I've revised those listings to be absolutely clear that the modules are not made by Aixiz, but I wanted to disclaim that clearly here also.

From my understanding of trademark law, there's nothing wrong with saying that the MOD9s are size-compatible with diode housings made by Aixiz. Nevertheless, I wanted to make sure that there was absolutely no potential for confusion. The MOD9s are NOT made or in any way affiliated or endorsed by Aixiz.
 
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Johnyz

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Someone actually thought they were Aixiz made? Strange. Anyway, are you planning to do something like MOD3.8?
 

jcranmer

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Just shaking my head on this one. I assume this person is from aixiz? I didn't see the original description but it's still a crappy thing to do.
 

Johnyz

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Yep, Chuck is the person from Aixiz. I think they are just angry that RHD is doing what were they supposed to do a year ago.
 

HaloBlu

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^ have to say I agree.
:wtf: I didn't see the listing before but I'm betting it was clear to begin with.
 
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jib77

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It was very clear it was not an Aixiz product. Plus its not a product Aixiz offers for sale anyways. Unfortunately if Aixiz decides to launch a VERO trademark dispute there is no appeal process for those in ebay. Because they are afraid of lawsuits they dont even look at your item to see if its in violation, they just take the trademark's owner's word and take the listing down ... if you continue to list the item they will suspend your account.

If this is the course Aixiz wants to take then I will not buy any more crap from them.
 

rhd

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Hey,

To be fair to Aixiz, Chuck probably didn't have much choice here. There's a strange fluke in a lot of IP law, whereby you actually need to enforce your trademark (even when you might not *really* care), otherwise you risk loosing it.

So for example trademarks like "Zipper" and "Yo-yo" lost their protection because they became genericized.

In theory, if I was calling my MOD9s "9mm Aixiz Modules", or if we were referring to all diode modules as "Aixiz modules", then Aixiz might risk diluting their trademark, which would hurt their ability to enforce it in a situation where it actually mattered (IE, someone else actually trying to pass off fake housings as Aixiz-produced ones), etc.

So at any rate, it's probably a fair and legitimate concern for Chuck to have. Now that I've made it clear on my listings that these are NOT Aixiz modules, that should be that.

Now, if Aixiz tries to suggest that I shouldn't be allowed to say "Size compatible with Aixiz modules" even after a very prominent disclaimer that these are not in any way affiliated with Aixiz, then they'll be overstepping the law. But they haven't said that, and I doubt they will. If they do, I'll dig up my IP law textbook, and mount a challenge.

That said, if Aixiz just MADE a 9mm module, I'd be 100% cool with ducking out of the arena alltogether. My objective with the MOD9 really wasn't to make money or start any sort of business. I'm 100% happy with Aixiz cornering the 9mm module market. For one, they can do it cheaper than I can, which would be better for everyone (myself included).
 
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qumefox

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Judging by this move, I guess if I made, or had made, a large batch of AL or CU 5.6mm modules (which I was kind of planning to), as opposed to brass, that I could look forward to getting threatened with a lawsuit?
 

rhd

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Judging by this move, I guess if I made, or had made, a large batch of AL or CU 5.6mm modules (which I was kind of planning to), as opposed to brass, that I could look forward to getting threatened with a lawsuit?
Again, I want to be fair to Chuck. He threatened a Vero dispute, which isn't the same as a lawsuit.

That said, to my knowledge, Aixiz modules aren't patented. So there's absolutely nothing Aixiz can do if you make 5.6mm modules.

- If you call them Aixiz modules, then Aixiz has a legitimate legal gripe with you, because you're infringing their trademark.

- If you don't call them Aixiz modules, but mention compatibility "with Aixiz modules" in your description, then Aixiz *probably* doesn't have any legal gripe with you (depending on how you've used their trademark), but they might still want to posture a bit

- If you don't mention Aixiz anywhere in connection with your modules, they've got nothing. Their modules aren't to my knowledge patented.

I'd still like to mention Aixiz compatibility in my item descriptions, so I don't want to remove mention of them entirely (and shouldn't have to, as far as my recollection of IP trademark law goes). The above should not be taken as legal advice.
 

qumefox

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I'd have no intention of calling them 'aixiz modules' anyway, since it'd just add to the confusion of where to get them. Though I should add they'd unlikely be anywhere as cheap as 'aixiz modules' or come with the goodies like acrylics and springs, etc. I just don't have the finances to order them in large enough quantities to compete with them price wise.

But the only real point is that some heatsink designs just aren't suited to press fit diode installation, so having an intermediate module makes things a lot more simple, diode installation wise. And brass really isn't the greatest material to begin with. I always wondered why they didn't go with AL to begin with.
 
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jcranmer

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I don't know RHD. I understand what you are saying, but it's just a common courtesy to at least ask before starting out with the legal crap. I'm not saying they shouldn't protect the brand.
 

rhd

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I don't know RHD. I understand what you are saying, but it's just a common courtesy to at least ask before starting out with the legal crap. I'm not saying they shouldn't protect the brand.
Hey,

I agree. And again, I'm sort of defending Aixiz here, but that's ^ pretty much what they did. Chuck didn't start the Vero dispute, just mentioned that it would be forthcoming if I didn't change my listing.

The wording in my listing potentially wasn't as clear as it could have been (although I think it was pretty obvious that these weren't Aixiz-made). Nevertheless, I adjusted, replied to Chuck with the link to my new description, and haven't heard anything further. So hopefully, they are satisfied.
 

jcranmer

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Well I guess I should have looked up VERO first. I assumed it was some Canada law not some eBay thing. LOL. :D
 

rhd

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Yup - all is well - I didn't mean for this thread to go out on a roll here - just wanted to make sure that I had clarified the lack of association adequately here (as well as in my eBay listings)

All is well.
 

lasersbee

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I think the problem lies in the fact that you are using the "Aixis"
name inn your advertising...

I can see that RHD did not intend to ride on the coattails of the
Aixis name.....

But Aixis is the NAME of the seller and it's modules. He (Aixis) has
built a reputation that has a value in the marketplace and any use
of that reputation/Name to sell products warrants a response from
that owner of the reputation if he wants to protect that reputation...

I also would take offense if a competitor/seller was using my name
or product name to sell a product without my written permission....
(like DarkArmyOfOne tried to do.... )

That is how ethical business is done...IMO


Jerry
 

rhd

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I think the problem lies in the fact that you are using the "Aixis"
name inn your advertising...

I can see that RHD did not intend to ride on the coattails of the
Aixis name.....

(...)

I also would take offense if a competitor/seller was using my name
or product name to sell a product without my written permission....
(like DarkArmyOfOne tried to do.... )

That is how ethical business is done...IMO
I would love to be able to run red lights. Unfortunately, that's not how the law is written ;)

You're allowed to say things like "Compatible with Ford F150 Engines" or "Works with Toshiba Satellite Laptops" or "Fits Samsung Galaxy S Smartphone".
- That type of Trademark usage is allowed, no written permission required (as far as I'm aware) - whether you're happy about that Jerry, or not ;)
 
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