Bomb Price: 405nm AR glass dual layer/lens fit AX/DX

[alx]

Hello All,

Today, this project become a sure thing. First professional glass lens, 405nm, AR COATED for blue pointers, transmittance over 97%. I have booth lens on my hand.

What about lens? Has been designed for our needs (blue laser pointers), factory assembled (is a ISO/TUV factory, working for major companies all over the world) so you should expect PROFESSIONAL QUALITY.

Very shortly, about my requested specs:
- not aging the diode (I was informed about borosilicate cons, and I excluded from start)
- Glass Lens
- High Numerical Aperture: 0.6
- Short focal lens 2-2.5mm
- AR Coated for 405nm
- Transmittance: over 95% (to be able to take out more than 95% of laser radiation)

After it pass their development department tests, we concluded that BETTER, for our needs is to have a DUAL LAYER LENS (2 lens inside instrument case). We decided to produce 2 lens. After it pass their lab tests (2 weeks), today I receive booth lens. Keep reading to understand...

First instrument case contain 2 lens inside, second one, contain only one lens inside.

About first one:
- named DL405PRO (Dual Layer/Double Lens AR Coated for 405nm)
- instrument case will fit inside AX/DX module
- instrument case has the same length like AX instrument case (which hold glass lens)
- keep inside 2 lens
- double coated (booth lens AR coated for 405nm)
- transmittance: 0ver 97%!!!
- FL: 2.2mm
- NA: 0.58

About second one:
- named SL405PRO (Sigle Layer/Sigle Lens AR Coated for 405nm)
- instrument case will fit inside AX/DX module
- instrument case has the same length like AX instrument case (which hold glass lens)
- keep inside 1 lens
- coated for 405nm
- transmittance: 0ver 98%!!!
- FL: 2.4mm
- NA: 0.5

Booth lens offer almost the same increase in power (20-30%) over AX plastic lens!
SL405PRO seems to be a little worse than DL405PRO, because, i can see near spot (focused at few metters away, some "blue noise"), but booth has almost the same incredible transmittance.

About Price: On 22 May 2009, I received quotations. 20Eur/pcs for DL405PRO! For SL405PRO they said that did not pass their quality tests, and wont be quoted anymore!

You should expect to have MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity), around 50-100pcs/order.
I will know for sure tomorrow!

And tomorrow become today, and I received the bad news ... they changed suddenly (22 May 2009) the MOQ! Our discussions/negociations are in a deadlock. I can't satisfy their Minimum Qrder Quantities (require over 10K Eur).

Also, as I said, in my laser current driver driver thread (30-800mA/5-16V):
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=22560

I not intend to deserve retail segment, so should be some peoples here, which take care about it. I will sell at cheaper price, in MOQ quantities, to few peoples which will spread this lens to our community using local shipping rates!

What I am planning is to do all things here, to produce it, and ship it to few peoples (our forum members) in small quantities (let say under 100pcs each per order), AT LOWER RATES AS POSSIBLE.
Al I want is to have/find some RELIABLE PEOPLES, which can spread this lens and also current driver to our community using local shipping rates (better than international rates and faster).

In the next week or 2 weeks, I will expect emails to: XELLA71@GRAD.COM from all peoples which want to join this project, containg their proposals, ideas, intended/needed quatities, etc.

- All correspondence will be private, and at the end, when all things will be cleared, I will post here the agreed results.

Note: if you tried to contact me at xella71@grad.com and not receive my reply within next 24 hours, it mean that I not received your message. In this case, drop me a private message here!

Also, I am thinking to mix orders (DL405PRO + alx's 30-800mA/5-16V current driver) to be able to keep price as low as possible for booth products, and have shipping cost/item as low as possible (under 0.5-1USD/pcs)!

I'll come back tomorrow with more information.

Also, I want to post some pictures soon. I don't have a digital camera, so will be a short delay (to meet one of my friend which will help me with some pictures of booth lens). Probably, in this weeked we will have it here!

Shipping and payment methods:
- the same like for alx's 30-800mA/5-16V current driver
Read here:
http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=22560

To be short:
- shipping (tracked/insured) any destination, around 25USD
- payment: moneygram, western union, bank wire
Paypal in the future (not now)!

Regards,
Alx

 

[alx]

reserved for future updates!

 

[Darkarmyofone]

if these ever get into production be sure to let me know.

 

[alx]

if these ever get into production be sure to let me know.

updated main post and price.

As I said, our discussions regarding DL405PRO are freezed... But this project is not dead at all.

I already know that this manufacturer can produce all components (glass lens, brass instrument case, can do coatings, and many more).

So, I identifyed few directions, and discussed about it with their production manager. So, in the near future, I'll give the lens and they will assembly and maybe will do AR coatings for us. Here, will not be such higher costs.

Now, I should go back to few supplyers which I keeped on hold, and order their lens: coated and/or uncoated. There are few, which gave me good technical specs. I will order 2 kind of glass lens: coated and uncoated.

For those glass lens uncoated, I will do here, AR coatings and instrument case (which is already done and fit perfect inside AX/DX module). For already AR coated lens, this manufacturer will just mount lens inside instrument case.

So, will be some delay, but finally, we will have a glass lens, at lower rates!

Regards,
Alx

 

[Krutz]

i bet this is closely watched by many members!
there are 405nm optimized lenses out there, but at costs around 60$ its just not worth it for most of us. another thing those lack (as i understand it) is "dot-quality". with such high NA, all the "noise" is collimated too, which leads to specles and "dirt" around the dot. if there would be an option to *reduce* the NA to get a slightly less powerful (5% less?) beam, but nice clean dot, even more would be interested!
wouldnt be hard to do, a simple (black anodized aluminium) pinhole which could be inserted and removed from the backside would be enough!

how about broadband-coated lenses? others have shown that red+405nm coated lenses only lose one, two percent on 405nm power. throw all these bits together, and you will have the standard lens over here!
(405+650nm, glass, short focus length, high NA, optional pinhole, lowerish price)

very curious about how this turns out!

remember, when IgorT was on this, we were talking about 1000-5000 lenses..

Manuel

 

[Traveller]

shipping (tracked/insured) any destination, around 25USD

Wow, if you can manage that price and the quality and results are as good as you say they are, then you have yourself a winner!

What's missing here is some more details of your background research (unless I missed a prior thread) and images of the beams / spots. That DL405PRO should produce less "splash", according to your statement: show us (please).

Igor has a lens GB project and has selected a lens that also produces less splash, albeit perhaps with less efficiency. But what makes his lens project so much appreciated and valued by all is the amount of effort he has invested and the research he has documented for our benefit (see below).

So please feel free to point me (us) to any threads you may have posted with such research notes, thanks




--------------------------------

Quoted from IgorT's 405 Lens GB:

Here are some key notes I mined a while back from Igor's GB thread. The last three in the list were the final choices. From those, he settled on #2 because although #3 was more powerful, it was less "clean"... NA data is available below too.
_________________________________________________________________


Just to clear one thing up. There won't be two types of coatings. We could afford two types with any of the first six lenses, but not with these. Luckily these have a broadband coating, which is very good at just around 405nm and 660nm. I did a comparison with a lens coated specifically for 405nm, and there is less than one percent of a difference, resulting from the difference in reflections.

So the broadband is more than just good enough, especially since as it is, the lens brings more of an increase than expected. When i thought the number would be under 20%, 0.8% more could bring it a bit closer.... But we are over 20% even for diodes with the lowest losses in acrylics.

And if one lens can do both, it's both cheaper, less complicated and more practical for everyone...

So we will have one universal lens instead of two. There is no need to specify the coating, because the best lens so far comes with a 400-700nm coating. Basically, everyone just needs to figure out how many they want. They will work with any visible wavelength diode, reducing reflections to less than 1% on average and even less with reds and blu rays...
--------------------------------------------------




It's been like this..
Manufacturer 1:
- v1 - the original custom lens, 30 pieces - FAIL - spherical abberations

Manufacturer 2:
- Doesn't even pick up the phone anymore unless caught off guard, in which case they say "next week".

"Manufacturer" 3:
- v2 - first custom lens rescue attempt, 2 samples - FAIL - bubble gum lens?
- v3 - second rescue attempt, 2 samples - WORKS! Oh wait, no it doesn't? Wait, now it does? - FAIL - astigmatic lens/low quality


At this point i realized i was relying too much on too few manufacturers, and went nuts, and started searching for other options, by writing and calling more than ten new manufacturers.

I found:

"Manufacturer" 3's actual manufacturer:
- v4 - third resue attempt, one sample - FAIL - this is a lens? *:-/
- v5 - fourth rescue attempt, one sample *- FAIL - this was the first lens that was scratched before i got my hands on it, seems like it was made like this :-?
- v6 - fifth rescue attempt, one sample - FAIL - could almost work, has holes in the beam, quality too low


From the whole bunch v3 and v6 were the best, and yet they were horrible... *:'(
v1 was and still is the highest quality lens (precision machined lens), but it's spherical, and as such useless for us.
Here end the cheap lenses.

Luckily i also found:


Manufacturer 4:
- wanted to send representatives from France and Germany for a tour of my company, and to convince me to buy quality lenses at 68 EURO each for one piece and 40 EURO each for up to 500 pieces. They said we could talk about the price, once we get to larger quantities. They just didn't seem to understand that 250 pieces is a HUGE quantity for us... But i did get some usefull info.


Manufacturer 5:
- Lens #1 - WORKS!
- Lens #2 - WORKS even better!
- Lens #3 - increases the power the most, but has gaps in the beam - probably rejects from the high quality version. Not suitable for our needs, luckily this one was free. They were probably hoping that we don't need quality and that they could sell their rejects. The quality version costs twice as much as the first two of their lenses.


So we are now actually at lens 7-9, and v7 (Lens #1) & v8 (Lens #2) are the best so far.... The latter increasing the power the most.

We will go with the 8th custom lens attempt, for max power and thinnest beam. But i am hoping i can also order some of the first lens, because it makes a "cleaner" spot, due to the medium NA clipping the ugly edges of the fast axis, and creates a "fatter" beam..

Lens #2 will bring out all there is, so the spot shape will depend ONLY on the diode output shape. It's the only way to get all the power out, and means, that diodes with a weird shape output will create weird shape spots... As diodes get better, so will the spots..

It is usual in pointers to go for a lossy option, such as clipping the output with a low NA of the lens, to make the spot rounder, cleaner and prettier.
- An AixiZ lens for example actually makes a pretty nice, rounded off spot, due to the low NA of 0.3...
- Lens #1 creates a flatter spot, but still with a slightly rounded off fast axis, because the NA is 0.4.
- Lens #2 has a NA of 0.55 and brings out the entire output and creates a spot in the same shape.
--------------------------------------------------




These [last three lens samples] are high quality precision grade aspherics. Unlike all the others, these were designed for laser diodes. They even have diode window thickness compensation! Other than collimating the beam, their shape also undistorts the spherical abberations caused by the diode window! These are diffraction limited lenses! Lenses where the size of the foused spot depends only on the wavelength! These are lenses, that could write a disk!
--------------------------------------------------



And finally, a nice synopsis:

NA
Lens #1: 0.40
Lens #2: 0.55
Lens #3: 0.60

FL
Lens #1: 6.30 mm
Lens #2: 4.56 mm
Lens #3: 4.02 mm

Coating
Lens#1: *405nm and 660nm
Lens #2: 405nm and 660nm
Lens #3: 408nm

Power Output Improvement (Based on a 6x diode and Aixiz acrylic lens)
Lens #1: +16.6 %
Lens #2: +24.2 %
Lens #3: * No Data

Power Output Improvement (Based on a high wavelength PHR diode and Aixiz acrylic lens)
Lens #1: +17.5 %
Lens #2: +26.0 %
Lens #3: +26.0 %

Focusing and Burning (Data still to be properly valuated)
Lens #1: *Good?
Lens #2: *Some focusing and burning - less than a long FL?
--------------------------------------------------

 

[alx]

I know all related to igort ... before to start this project i read almost all important things about...please dont post here what igor said in his thread. he made a lot of mistakes. I wont do it and i'm not debating here what did he done and what engineers are trained to do. practically, you must know one thing: ceap for you it mean more money for developer, and you must order quantities.

for me is very clear one thing. here, is not a market for expensive lens. even cheaper, is not a market. also almost bigger GB threads, are maxim up to 5K USD.

I discussed from the first time about broadband diodes. To short quickly this discussions: will anybody be interested to invest 10-20.000Eur, to have a good lens, and after that, to sell here 10pcs per month?

 

[Traveller]

...will anybody be interested to invest 10-20.000Eur, to have a good lens...

:crackup:

 

[Krutz]

IgorT has my deepest respect for sure.
But with breaks of weeks and months, and no update whatsoever, and others moving on to alternate lenses.. i would love to get my bag of lenses from Igor, but it doesnt seem to happen in the next months, if ever. a one-liner in his thread would be enough *sigh*
its not the first time i checked igor`s profile to see him offline for more than 4 weeks. and yes, i know what serious problems he has in reallife, i am far from pushing him!

perhaps it would make sense for you two to collaborate, alx, igor? so all his effort and costs wouldnt be wasted altogether..

Manuel

 

[alx]

hey guys,

Now I have some ideas:
- I have the ability to do AR Coatings here (don't forget that i'm in EU)
- I have the ability to produce instrument case here
- I also have and tried to give all of us a cheap 405 glass lens. Unfortunatelly, actual manufacturer, changed our agreement after someone, saw that the price is to low and production cost to high.

Also, my relations with some powerfull peoples there are super ok, and after what's happend today, we concluded that we can go ahead (as i spoken above). I hope that they will trun over, when will see, that i'm comming as I said, with a good lens, and they will do just instrument case and maybe coatings. So, I'm expecting that the people which changed all in 1 second, will think twice next time and will do all things for us (lens, coatings, instrument case, etc)...

Also I know:
- that here, peoples will not be willing to spent money to participate and sustain this project. Igort has been alone, on his own money, and tried to buy more lens, test it and choose the best one. These are just 2 mistakes he made.
- also I know that today, we have a cheapest driver, best quality, at 6USD. Till now, nobody join my driver project (are just few minor requirements, and pricipal, to have 200 up to 600USD in your pocket) to buy 30-100pcs at lower rates as possible and spread to our members. See this thread for more info: http://laserpointerforums.com/laser_pointer_forums_3/forum/showthread.php?t=22560
- also i know that 100pcs is a big quantity for us (enough for one month or maybe two or more)
- also i know that i can't handle RETAIL SEGMENT (to sell piece by piece). So other peoples here, should take care about it.

Also, you should know, that 100pcs is not an important order for any manufacturer all over the world. Will be maybe a good business for a retailer. 1000pc will be maybe a good business for a small wholesaller. SO, YOU CAN'T OPEN YOUR MOUSE IN FRONT OF A MANUFACTURER AND ASK ABOUT SUCH A SMALL BUSINESS, AND WHEN YOU SPEAK WITH HIM, YOU MUST SPEAK TECHNICAL, NOT MANUFACTURER1, MANUFACTRER2, THIN BEAM, SMALL SPOT, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE... AND SO ON. IT WILL HANG UP THE PHONE OR WILL SAY THANKS FOR YOUR VISIT AND WILL NEVER COME BACK TO YOU!

Now, I am identifying few options for us:
1. If igort lens was ever real, I know he is expecting from "manufacturer" to build instrument case and deliver to him all together. Till today, igort is still waiting to receive confirmation from manufacturer that solved problem with instrument case or who knows what... I said in one of my past post, that I think that igort project is dead and was also many other reasons, to investigate and start this project. But now, doesn't matter what was in the past with someone, and no problem! I want to be constructive: Just send me all lens, and I guarantee you that in 2 weeks, we will have all lens assembled. Remain just to discuss about lens price and quantities.

2. If anyone have a good glass lens, the same: ship to me and i'll do here coatings and instrument case (can contact me on private at xella71@grad.com, or here)

3. I will continue my negociations with other 2 manufacturers, to receive lens. Only the lens, without instrument case. Fortunatelly, one lens I already tested and is ok. Is exactly what we need but the price is still higher and comes from outside EU, so i will pay more for shipping, taxes, VAT, etc... will not be so cheap but for sure, will not be 56USD. This is my direction.

4. If someone, have other technical specs regarding lens, post here a complete design! Does it mean COMPLETE TECHNICAL SPECS of lens... not manufacturer1, manufacturer2 does not pick up the phone, etc. Also, should estimate a quantity/month and the price, retail price. Does it mean, that you already estimate our budget! And a hint: forget about broadband lens. It can't be professional lens and also broadband! Or... let say, theoretical is possible (will be required more coatings, which cost money). Does it mean, that broadband, if is really broadband, will be ALWAYS more expensive than one coated for single (or small spectrum) wavelength. You can expect one designed for 405nm and/or maybe for red (but here we already have a cheap option).

Regards,
Alx

 

[alx]

I think Is time to own a laser power metter, to easy test some things regarding diodes and lens. I found one here (home made) in the past, but I cannot remember it's name, owner or the thread. Can anybody help me with this info. I want to speed up a little and not go for every measurement in their factory/lab.

Regards,
Alx

 

[Eku]

Here's a review for kenom's LPM.

http://laserpointerforums.com/laser...hread.php?t=40175&highlight=laser+power+meter

You can get LASERBEE laser power meter here.

http://www.bauer-electron.com/eby/eby1wlpm.htm

 

[Krutz]

its been several weeks.. any news so far?

so you are looking for someone to invest into a larger stock of these?
whats the minimum number to order?
how about a regular groupbuy here?

manuel

 

[alx]

its been several weeks.. any news so far?

so you are looking for someone to invest into a larger stock of these?
whats the minimum number to order?
how about a regular groupbuy here?

manuel

Hi manuel,

sorry for missing info for more than 3 weeks. just I want to be ready to present more info here than I can do today, but here come some partial info:

- laser power metter received (coherent LPM).
- lens received
- coatings (done too)
- build custom instrument case for this lens to fit AX/DX module
- lens mounted inside instrument case

Till here, all operations (samples, custom builds, chemical treatement of instrument case to not have reflexions, shipment costs, import taxes, etc) exceed 50Eur/lens_instrument case, but as expected. no problem here. the price will decrease for sure.

Till today, my measurements, reveal a transmittance over 97% for first build. From my memmory, a phr diode, which has 139-141mw in raw power, using this kit take out around 137mw. Using the same diode, with AX plastic lens, I got only 110-112mw out. So, we shoud have an increase in power around 30% (maybe less, maybe more).

I didn't want to post this info today, because I found a problem regarding instrument case, and ordered a rebuild (all techological process has been restarted). I hope this week, to receive entire rebuild, and perform some tests again.

The problem with instrument case is related to the backside of it. The lens has short focal length and has been mounted exactly on the backside of instrument case, and its postion is not ok... It produce some noise on the outside image (some inner circles around the spot) - instrument case has been build with a to large aperture. Also, the lens due to its position, can be touched by mistake with your finger (you can dirty it very easy) and also by helix/spring between laser diode and instrument case, which can scracth the lens (destroy coatings).

now, comming back to the main question: minimum order?

I can say some things which are certain till today:
- I already negociated for us (with all parts involved in this project) to have it in very small basis (50-100pcs/order), so, the main problem has been solved (will not be larger orders). Probably, for the beginning will be a maxim 50 builds, and after that, if this project will be interesting for more peoples, we can increase quaitites, do... don't worry, I want this project to be/become accesible to all of us.

- no, i am not looking to someone to invest into a larger order. but here, I can see few problems, related to other 2 questions:
a) how to spread this lens to our community and
b) how to collect money.

I'm in EU, and as you already know, I can ship using M2 (around 25USD/order). M1 (5USD/order) cannot be used! I can't ship one lens/order (to many risks, problems). So, here, should be only one shipment collecting all lens, probably to USA (all lens together tracked&insured&shipped to someone inside USA), and from there, to be delivered to anyone, piece by piece.

Also, all money should be collected to one account (my account or other people account which can collect money and send it to me). Here we will see which option is better for us, in order to receive money (fees, options, etc), but we are still a little bit far related this step.

Let's say, that I would like to have a policy described in 2 words: small steps! In this way we can go ahead. So, please, just wait ... I will update this thread after i'll receive all lens mounted inside newer instrument case and after that we will decide, how is better for all of us to proceed.

I will post some picture with entire build. Also, I want to test more lens using my lasers, to be sure that transmittance is near or over 95% (increase in power around 30%), as stated above.

I invested more than 6 months in this project, more money, established many contacts, and now, I am near to have this project alive. And trust me, is possible to have it soon. All I want, because nobody can help me on this stage, is that our community to join all efforts together, when will be necessary to collect money and spread this lens ...

And again, like on my driver thread, I want to clarify one thing for ever and for everybody: even this project cost me money (enough to give up), i'm not intending to MAKE A REAL BUSINESS selling this lens. All I WANT IS TO GIVE YOU, A GOOD LENS AT RESONABLE RATES, and all i've done till today has been done by pure passion and because I saw here a nice community (with few exceptions), where peoples are helping each other.

Are still enough problems which remain to be solved, but we are going ahead. Slowly, but ahead.

Regards,
Alx

 

[Krutz]

Hey Alx,

thanks for your headsup! sounds great, and seems like it will happen soon!

i see two problems with the existing available lenses: price (which you already work on) and beamquality. since you redo your lenshousing at the moment, please consider a removable pinhole! there were several people posting in those threads that dont want a dirty dot. plan something to clip a black aluminum disc in front of the housing (diode-side!), and you will double your sales (with a 0.10$ more cost) easily!

curious how this turns out!

manuel

 

[alx]

Hey Alx,

plan something to clip a black aluminum disc in front of the housing (diode-side!), and you will double your sales (with a 0.10$ more cost) easily!

curious how this turns out!

manuel

Hi manuel,

thanks for your reply. this hint has been taken in consideration before. I will receive instrument cases soon, all with a simillar design like you suggest. I know about your concern. the "black aluminium disc" will not be aluminium, and will be like instrument case, chemical threated, brass, precission, quality. just relax.

Some consideration about dirty spot you claim! I know about it and generally speaking, can be more ore less dirty, depending by more elements: instrument case, lens, housing module and also by diode behind. that I said to wait, because instrument case (is a very important piece, almost like the lens itself).

A good instrument case and lens, will be welcome but will not solve entirely "dirty spot" problems.

the rest of problems, is related to:

- laser diode light/radiation (emitting shape, which is not round, is flat round, for all diodes we are using - you can see this shape very easy, powering a diode inside AX/DX case and looking at the shape of light on the wall in front of you, uncollimating the beam as much as possible). that's it, we can't do to much to correct/change something related to this problem.

- shape of lens and coatings (already done/solved)

- number of lens inside instrument case (one lens, cannot correct all, because we have a lot of dispersion in front of lens. 2 lens will correct better, but will increase the price. for example, one cyclindrical and one aspherical, will do what we need, but become expensive). not an option for us.

- other mechanical corrections. for example:

a) better build AX/DX case & better instrument case (yes, booth at the same time). I tested more than 10 AX/DX cases, and all has some problems related to precission. Will be some "dance" between instrument case and inside space of AX/DX case (when you are screwing). that is the reason they are using helix/arch inside, to keep as firm as possible, instrument case inside AX/DX module, but this design, will not guarantee that we have a perfect angle (90 degree, between axis - horizontally, vertically). any small abberation/deviation from axis, can modify the shape or generate some abberations and decrease the output power. that I said: instrument case and how is mounted lens inside is a very important feature. the one I am bulding here, will be precise and the lens will be perfect aligned on axis, and perfectly centered inside instrument case. this will solve just partially our problem (because better is to have a another AX/DX housing, to keep firm (or better fixed) instrument case inside, without any "dance". Again, not an option for us (I can't achieve chinese rates, rebuilding entire AX/DX brass module here).

b) adding some aditional rings to the back of instrument case. here are pros and cons. first, the hole inside ring which you named above "black aluminium disc" is dependant by focal length. If you are making a big hole than required, you will get some dirty light around spot (you are croping more than you need). If you are doing a small hole than required, you can remove some un-needed light, but you risk to decrease the output power. So shortly, the hole must be exactly as required, not more, not less! And, this will not guarantee you a perfect round spot on output, but is an important detail.

c) you can add additional mecanic ring in front of your instrument case (like AX/DX is doing now), used to screw up/down the lens and collimate the beam, and also to cut off some additional noise (dirty light as you said)... but, again, you are risking to loose some power and the bennefit (perfect round shape) to not be as expected or minimal.

As a short conclusion, we must balance the ratio: cost/performance. All I want to say is that generally speaking, any new feature/request has a price and your suggestion has been already included in my design . Part of these features/needs can be solved easy, at lower costs. Others, tend to become to expensive ... Be assured that I'm doing all my efforts, to have a good lens. We will see soon, how will be. I will post here some pictures and my measurements (but will be some delays between text and images - I not own a digital camera, a fried will help me).

Regards,
Alx