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3 in 1 Review - Rifle 1.2w 445 - Lasersbee USB 2.5W LPM - Lazerer Customer service.

Stix62

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Rifle 1.2w 445nm.

Paid for 27/12/2011
Arrived in Uk 09/01/2011

First impression: Good delivery speed and Awesome!! :D I've only had a 100mw greenie to compare it to so absolutely blown away by this. Focused, it bursts strong black balloons and lights matches (red ones) as soon as it touches. I lit a friends cigarette from 6 foot away and lasered my name through a Rizla packet.
When focused so I had a huge 'dot' on my wall, the beam/dot looks to be very ' clean'. I dont know how else to describe it,, bit like a circle with the top and bottom sliced off with no abnormalities or anything. There is a slight deflect on the lens ( i think? ),,, which looks like a small worm. As I was turning the focus it didn't appear to move.
The Rifle host seems quite solid but the focusing ring is a poor fit - its too slack and can move. This can make focusing tricky because you focus it to a nice thin beam at the point you want, but when you let go it moves, sidewards.
The Power Certificate states 1290mW. Until the next 'review' I had no reason to doubt that but I was in for one hell of a shock.......

Laserbee USB 2.5W LPM

This arrived a few days ago (Thanks Jerry) and as you can imagine I was kean to get testing - especially the 1290 rifle. I contacted Jerry for the software and instructions and following a good read of the instructions got it set up (very easy). I had a few of SwimminSurfers overspec greens 'n blus so I tested those first (warmimg myself up for the big boy...lol). I've put the results of those tests on Swims sales thread if anyones interested. I also have a 200mw greenie (alledgedly) which I tested. That only registered 100mw with fresh batteries and soon dropped to an average 60 - 80. (from Megalasers.uk - I won't be going there again)
Now for the 1290 Rifle :D. I put freshly charged batteries in, powered her up and watched the pc screen expecting to see it hit 1290. What did it say? - 645mw!!! - what the...!!!! So I ran a few (lots) more tests. The best it ever hit (and was a one off) was 800mw,,,and that was after running at 600mw for 20 secs then suddenly climbing again. I was so shocked at the results I thought the LPM must be faulty and contaced Jerry. He's not answered my messages yet but I'm assuming thats because my final conclusion its the Rifle at fault and not the LPM, is why.
I've run some more tests (fresh batteries) and the Rifles power seems to be getting lower.(400mw average) It is very unpredictable.
The LPM is a very good piece of kit. I had to wait 30 minutes for it to acclimatise to room conditions and zero properly when I used it this morning - but it was very very cold last night so thats fine and expected.
All the attached LPM pics are of the Rifle 1290mw (er,,no) with freshly recharged 16340 batteries as supplied by Lazerer.

And finally,,,, Lazerer Customer Service

Until I ran the LPM tests i've been saying Max/Lazerer is 100% trustworthy and a good company to deal with. They seem to get their products out quickly and there doesn't seem to be many complaints around here. I, for one, had no reason to think otherwise, and I still don't at the moment to be honest, though some doubts have arisen.
Regarding the faulty Rifle 1290, I've contacted Max and told him the problem. His response was...'Can you measure the voltage of each battery and the current draw from them? We are sure that all the laser is in on spec condition before sending out. Also when you turn on the laser will you see it dimming?
What I mean is the laser is bright when you turn it on and dim a little bit after 20-30 second? Any information will help. Sorry for the trouble. Have a nice day.'
I got back to Max with the info he asked for on Sunday and have not heard from him since. I am going to open a Paypal dispute tomorrow regardless of any response from Max solely because the 45 day limit for doing so runs out on Thurs/Fri. This is no reflection on Max, I'm just covering my back and it gives me/us another 20 days to sort something out.
Back to orders/delivery time/chinese new year holidays. I placed an order on 11th Jan (uk time - 12th Jan in Hong Kong) and I'm still waiting for it to be shipped. On the Lazerer website it has said 'processing' since 11th Jan,,,though I got an email on the 31st Jan saying it had been updated to 'processing'. (what,,,again?) I don't mind that so much, but what does bother me is I know of at least one order placed around 31st Jan they got their tracking info a few days ago.
sidenote: I placed another order 31st Jan too, that still says processing.
Come on Max, you're slacking!!....'have a nice day' ;-)

Stay tuned, I will update this thread/post as and when things develop.

Update1: 7/2/12: Max has just emailed. He thinks (as I did) it may be a driver problem due to low current being drawn (0.5A when I checked). He also asked if I had other batteries to test the laser. I do, but they're actually not as good as the ones I got from Max. I've some more due (2 TrustFire RECHARGEABLE CR123A 16340 BATTERIES 880mAh TESTED HIGH CAPACITy | eBay) but I've no idea how good they'll be. If the drivers knackered I dont suppose it will make a difference anyway but worth a try I guess.

Update 2: 7/2/12 Just received email from Max. The Rifle will be heading back to Hong Kong tomorrow so he can check it out. He's '90% sure' its a driver problem after looking at the LPM graphs I sent. Apparently, the driver used should be very stable and should not produce the peaks shown on a couple of the graphs - so we'll find out one way or the other in a week or so hopefully. Very pleased with the service from Max at the moment. In the last email he came across as quite a nice fella with a sense of humour :D

Update3: 7/2/12 I'm not that patient and couldn't wait until tomorrow, the Rifle is in the post already and on its way back east. It should be with Max within the week (2-6 days if you believe Royal Mail - I wouldn't bank on that :D )
 

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electron

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Re: 3 in 1 Review - Rifle 1.2w 445 - Laserbee USB 2.5W LPM - Lazerer Customer service

Do you have anyone else in your area that you can compare your measurements with?
 

Stix62

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Re: 3 in 1 Review - Rifle 1.2w 445 - Laserbee USB 2.5W LPM - Lazerer Customer service

No. I'm all aloneeeeeeeeeeeee :D

Whats your line of thinking in asking that?.....faulty Rifle or faulty LPM?
 
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electron

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Not sure....but it does sound odd that a couple of your lasers have such low readings; that's why I thought that if someone else was in your area it would be a good way to check.
 

Stix62

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It was difficult to work out which was at fault at first (hadn't run a current check because I didn't know how) but the results were very consistent, whether that was good or bad. 4 lasers tested were Swims over specs and it would be fair to say 3 fell in the range they should, and one was low. The best of that bunch peaked at 80-82mW and the beam did look as bright as the one from the 200mw(100) greenie,,so I guess that proved the 200 was well under spec. The 2 blus of swims I tested (60mw and 69mw) were rock solid each test, as was the low greenie.(35mw) After hours and hours of racking my head and testing, the conclusion I came too was faulty Rifle 1.2w 445nm. It didn't make sense to me that the same lasers could give consistent readings each time whilst others didn't. For the number of tests I ran at least one of the 'consistent' ones would have faultered once if the LPM was dodgy.
Since all those tests, Max asked about the current draw. I didn't know how to do that so I had a quick google, saw how easy it was and ran a test. It was only drawing 0.5A - should be 1.2A - which reflects on the 500mw LPM reading I had only a few minutes earlier. Max has also asked about batteries (update 1, first post), but I think we've both got faulty driver in the back of our heads.(Max has mentioned it)
 
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electron

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Ahhh OK, then it would seem the Rifle 1.2 445nm is defective then; guess it's time for an RMA.
 

lasersbee

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Rifle 1.2w 445nm.

Paid for 27/12/2011
Arrived in Uk 09/01/2011

First impression: Good delivery speed and Awesome!! :D I've only had a 100mw greenie to compare it to so absolutely blown away by this. Focused, it bursts strong black balloons and lights matches (red ones) as soon as it touches. I lit a friends cigarette from 6 foot away and lasered my name through a Rizla packet.
When focused so I had a huge 'dot' on my wall, the beam/dot looks to be very ' clean'. I dont know how else to describe it,, bit like a circle with the top and bottom sliced off with no abnormalities or anything. There is a slight deflect on the lens ( i think? ),,, which looks like a small worm. As I was turning the focus it didn't appear to move.
The Rifle host seems quite solid but the focusing ring is a poor fit - its too slack and can move. This can make focusing tricky because you focus it to a nice thin beam at the point you want, but when you let go it moves, sidewards.
The Power Certificate states 1290mW. Until the next 'review' I had no reason to doubt that but I was in for one hell of a shock.......

Laserbee USB 2.5W LPM

This arrived a few days ago (Thanks Jerry) and as you can imagine I was kean to get testing - especially the 1290 rifle. I contacted Jerry for the software and instructions and following a good read of the instructions got it set up (very easy). I had a few of SwimminSurfers overspec greens 'n blus so I tested those first (warmimg myself up for the big boy...lol). I've put the results of those tests on Swims sales thread if anyones interested. I also have a 200mw greenie (alledgedly) which I tested. That only registered 100mw with fresh batteries and soon dropped to an average 60 - 80. (from Megalasers.uk - I won't be going there again)
Now for the 1290 Rifle :D. I put freshly charged batteries in, powered her up and watched the pc screen expecting to see it hit 1290. What did it say? - 645mw!!! - what the...!!!! So I ran a few (lots) more tests. The best it ever hit (and was a one off) was 800mw,,,and that was after running at 600mw for 20 secs then suddenly climbing again. I was so shocked at the results I thought the LPM must be faulty and contaced Jerry. He's not answered my messages yet but I'm assuming thats because my final conclusion its the Rifle at fault and not the LPM, is why.
I've run some more tests (fresh batteries) and the Rifles power seems to be getting lower.(400mw average) It is very unpredictable.
The LPM is a very good piece of kit. I had to wait 30 minutes for it to acclimatise to room conditions and zero properly when I used it this morning - but it was very very cold last night so thats fine and expected.
All the attached LPM pics are of the Rifle 1290mw (er,,no) with freshly recharged 16340 batteries as supplied by Lazerer.

And finally,,,, Lazerer Customer Service

Until I ran the LPM tests i've been saying Max/Lazerer is 100% trustworthy and a good company to deal with. They seem to get their products out quickly and there doesn't seem to be many complaints around here. I, for one, had no reason to think otherwise, and I still don't at the moment to be honest, though some doubts have arisen.
Regarding the faulty Rifle 1290, I've contacted Max and told him the problem. His response was...'Can you measure the voltage of each battery and the current draw from them? We are sure that all the laser is in on spec condition before sending out. Also when you turn on the laser will you see it dimming?
What I mean is the laser is bright when you turn it on and dim a little bit after 20-30 second? Any information will help. Sorry for the trouble. Have a nice day.'
I got back to Max with the info he asked for on Sunday and have not heard from him since. I am going to open a Paypal dispute tomorrow regardless of any response from Max solely because the 45 day limit for doing so runs out on Thurs/Fri. This is no reflection on Max, I'm just covering my back and it gives me/us another 20 days to sort something out.
Back to orders/delivery time/chinese new year holidays. I placed an order on 11th Jan (uk time - 12th Jan in Hong Kong) and I'm still waiting for it to be shipped. On the Lazerer website it has said 'processing' since 11th Jan,,,though I got an email on the 31st Jan saying it had been updated to 'processing'. (what,,,again?) I don't mind that so much, but what does bother me is I know of at least one order placed around 31st Jan they got their tracking info a few days ago.
sidenote: I placed another order 31st Jan too, that still says processing.
Come on Max, you're slacking!!....'have a nice day' ;-)

Stay tuned, I will update this thread/post as and when things develop.

update1: 7/2/12: Max has just emailed. He thinks (as I did) it may be a driver problem due to low current being drawn (0.5A when I checked). He also asked if I had other batteries to test the laser. I do, but they're actually not as good as the ones I got from Max. I've some more due (2 TrustFire RECHARGEABLE CR123A 16340 BATTERIES 880mAh TESTED HIGH CAPACITy | eBay) but I've no idea how good they'll be. If the drivers knackered I dont suppose it will make a difference anyway but worth a try I guess.
I just sent you a PM....
Again.. my apologies for not responding sooner.. I make it a point to
respond within 24 hours. For some reason you slipped through the
cracks... If I don't respond to a product inquiry within 24 hours just
nudge me by PM to let me know...:yabbem:

After reading this thread... I see you are on the right track. I would
agree with Max that a Laser Battery current check would point you
in the right direction of the power reading issues...;)
If the current was correct I would have have pointed to the LaserBee...


Jerry
 
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Stix62

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Hi Jerry.
I was just reading your PM as you were typing the above.
No problem in not responding sooner,,, it's given me plenty of time to get my head round things and work it out.

PM answered,,,,,, and loving the LPM.:D
 

honeyx

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May I ask how many batteries did you test with this laser? A lot of Li-Ion batteries can´t hande that much current draw. They will be fine for lower powered lasers but cause a power drop with a 445nm diode.

I was in about in the same situation as you after I ordered a M140 diode and a preset FlexDrive from DTR. Expected the output to be somwhere around 1.5W but the best I could get was 1.2W. DTR suggested to check the batteries. First I didn´t belive the batteries might cause this because they were working fine with all my other lasers but he was right. Just some of my 18650 were able to handle the current draw the driver needs at this power level. They are the good ones with a low internal resistance and a small voltage drop when under load.

There is somwhere a threat about on how to measure the internal resistance and the voltage drop of each battery. You must make sure you are using really good batteries for such a high powered laser.
 

Stix62

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Hi Honeyx
Batteries have been mentioned more than once to me but I don't think its that. 90%+ sure its a driver issue
I've got 4 x 16340's at the moment, 2 were from Max, 2 from Ebay. The 2 from Max are slightly better than the other 2 in that they seemed to be the ones giving the slightly higher LPM readings. Really good 16340's seem difficult to find. An extension tube to fit 2 x 18650's would be ideal :D
If it was due to batteries, then I'd have to ask why a company is sending out high powered lasers with batteries that can't cope - doesn't make sense. As far as I'm concerned, I should be able to put the batteries in that came with the product and see the result declared on the power certifcate. A few % out wouldn't matter, but 50%+,,,,I don't think so!!

Even at those low powers the Rifle was still very impressive (I thought),,,, I can't wait to see a true 1200mw+ :D

edit: The 16340 count has just gone up. The Postmans just dropped 2 Trustfire 16340's through the door ( 2 TrustFire RECHARGEABLE CR123A 16340 BATTERIES 880mAh | eBay ) Dammit,,,nothing to test them in now :D
2nd edit: Talking of 16340's again, I keep noticing AW's getting mentioned for being good at handling high current draw - I may need to look into that a bit more.


Update 4: Paypal Dispute Opened. I feel awful having to do that but I did inform Max yesterday as to why I was. I have every faith in Lazerer, but the clock is ticking now. 20 days and counting - I hope the postal services don't cause any delays.
 
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ginhev123

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Don't open a dispute, the chinese people (Max in this case) doesn't like it all. They will probably just slow it up. And when you sent the package - I hope you chose to have tracking with it? Some chinese companies have been lieing about not receiving the item.
 

Stix62

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Dispute has already been opened.
Max doesn't seem too annoyed about it. His response was ...'It is always frustrated to see any dispute no matter on paypal or somewhere else. However I am still very happy to see we are in good atmosphere of communication. By openning a dispute on paypal we will going into next state of returning the product. (I hate copy and paste the following template lol)'

He 'lol'ed :D

There would be no point in slowing it up, I WILL escalate to a claim in 20 days if I do not have a working 1.2 in my hands. A tracking number saying its on route will not suffice. I'll escalate to full claim and ask if Max can have more time because item on route but not arrived (I don't know if thats possible), but I'm not allowing any time limits to run out and lose any 'protection' I have.

If the Chinese don't like that (or ANY seller using Paypal),,,, not my problem. I've spent far too long on ebay and I'm well aware of all the shady practices etc. Provable on-line tracking is a big deal - I know what you're saying ;-)

I must stress, this action is solely for my protection. I have every faith in Max but these things happen and 'a mans gotta do what a ...blah blah' :D
 

lasersbee

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Don't open a dispute, the chinese people (Max in this case) doesn't like it all. They will probably just slow it up. And when you sent the package - I hope you chose to have tracking with it? Some chinese companies have been lieing about not receiving the item.
That is irrelevant..... It is a Dispute and not a Claim...
it is still only between the Buyer and Seller. PayPal has
not yet been involved..

There are ways of doing things correctly and this is one.
It has nothing to do with trust... It has to do with business.

Jerry
 
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Stix62

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