Unplesant dealings with FlaminPyro...

So as many people have seen, FlaminPyro seems to have a major problem with me, he claims that I have lied to him and in fact sold him a laser that was not orange like I claimed it was. Here's my side of the story, complete with messages between us.

The sale page for the laser is listed here with the laser being advertised as

Melles Griot 612nm Helium Neon Laser with power supply 2mW, $100 w/o Power supply $150 w/ Power Supply

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I would assume most people would interpret that as being a 612nm Heluim Neon Laser being sold. I sent an message to FlaminPyro and recieved this back (I cut out some small parts containing payment information)

I would like to know a couple things about the laser, do you have any idea how many hours are on it to the closest say 100hrs ? , is it 120 volt AC or 12 volt DC input, and it is an orange/orange red color right ? beam shot not nessary they never look right as far as color goes. and you would garrentee it not be DOA ? (covered in shipping insurance I guess)

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Here was my reply

The laser was removed from a piece of equipment that was only slightly used so I would say that it has 1000 hours or less on it. It has a 18-24V input for power. The color is a nice orange color.

I can assure that the laser will not be DOA

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Now at this point, I assumed the buyer knew he was buying a 612nm HeNe laser from me based on the sale thread, the title of the messages, and my statements.

Now from another thread, he writes this,

He was supposed to sell me an ORANGE laser and he sent me a RED one insted he states it's orange in his eyes but I have had several red HeNe's in my life time and it looks just like the rest RED. I spec asked him befor the sale if it was a orange/orange red and his answer was ORANGE. now I'm looking at a very expensive RED HeNe.

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I never claimed it's "orange in my eyes", I stated the wavelength, and the factual color for the wavelength, look up in any scientific source and you fill find that 612nm is classified as orange, that's not my definition.

Later, he says this:

Thats it Thats it Tomarrow I'm going to put this frickin RED HeNe laser on a one pound charge and blow the hell out of it. when it comes back down to earth I'm gona pick it up put it in a box and send it back to you BEN ..

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A few posts later, I tell him this,

I'll tell you what pyro, why don't you send the laser back to me, I will test it with the spectrometer and take pictures of everything for you. If it turns out to not be 611nm, I will refund your money, the entire $160 of it and give you a publicly apologize to you. If it turns out to be 611nm, I will ship it back to you and you can apologize to me.

Does that sound fair? No one else here on the forum has a spectrometer and can test it the way I can. Plus, if you were to ship it to someone else, it would kill any chance of a paypal dispute.

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Seems pretty reasonable to me, I don't see anything wrong with that request, however, he never even replies to the thread or to my request to show him that it was correct or make the deal right.

Later on in totally different threads, he starts hounding me about the same HeNe,

if a person isnt happy with the outcome of a sale what else can he do but talk about it to others if the other party involved won't answer PM's or act responsible. I could have opened a paypal dispute guess I should have, o well to late for me. I could have negtive rep'ed you like you did me for talking about our deal, and befor you call it lieing you would be saying 26 other people are lieing that have also seen the laser you sold me, but I have more class than that, you have insulted me for the last time on this matter so heres one for you insult me here again then you will get neg reped by me again.

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Now, I don't see any reason to start listening to what he has to say, he has been rude to me and in my opinion, a horrible buyer throughout the whole process. My recommendation is to avoid him at all costs.

And again, if you don't have something to say about this specific problem, please keep it to another thread...

You said it has a very nice orange color, right there. I'm on nobody's side but you said it right there.

Regardless if you didn't said it is orange in your eyes and you gave him the wavelength, you said it's orange

Here's your quote

The laser was removed from a piece of equipment that was only slightly used so I would say that it has 1000 hours or less on it. It has a 18-24V input for power. The color is a nice orange color.

I can assure that the laser will not be DOA


personally to me it's easy to see why he'd be confused

edit: How long did you wait for a reply and did you send more than one message

ben has stated numerous times that it was tested at ~612nm with a spectrometer. i apologize if im mistaken..

612nm is considered orange although everyones eyes are a little different. what seems orange to one person may look more red to another. just like some people can see IR or blu-ray better than others.

as long as it was tested and verified at ~612nm then i have to side with ben on this one... 612nm IS considered ORANGE.

take a look at this PDF. they classify 612nm as orange as well...
Catalogues - 594nm-yellow-and-612nm-orange-lasers - research-electro-optics

Do you see where there could have been confusion though?

themandalorian said:

Do you see where there could have been confusion though?

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honestly.. no. it was stated in the thread that it was 612nm. ~630nm still looks orange to me so 612 would have appeared orange as well. it seems the only confusion was caused b/c pyro's eyes dont pick up on orange that well...

OK my .02. Check the color graph at the bottom. To me 612 is clearly orange, not red-orange, not red.

http://laserpointerforums.com/group...hs-performance-lds-drivers-mauswiesel-35.html

Even if his eyes did not pick up orange well, he would still associate what he sees with other orange colors. So the laser would still be the same color as an orange to him regardless if its green to us. Am I making sense? If I look at an orange, and cant see very well, I still have a reference to the color I'm seeing even if its not correct. So if the laser does not look like an orange to me, its not orange. It does not matter how his eyes perceive the color, because no matter what color it is we have a reference. Get it? We are not talking blu-ray. That goes into the visual spectrum which is not the same.

Just shine a "red" HeNe next to the 612nm HeNe. The difference is visually pronounced.

Hell, Ship it to me. I will do a visual comparison for you.

I have an "orange" HeNe. Both Gooeygus (and a few others at the laser meet) and ScopeGuy20 have seen the output. It is most definitely orange.

Peace,
dave

Red -- Orange -- Yellow -- Green

I'm going to have to side with Ben on this one too - being as he gave the factual statement regarding wavelength (612nm) the subjective issue of how ones' eyes interpret color isn't relevant to the sale or Ben's credibility (and if it supports a case for "buyers remorse" that's not Bens' problem or responsibility).

I also don't think it was Bens' obligation to explain the subtle differences in wavelength, either - his sale info was factual and IMHO without omission, the responsibility of making an educated purchase lies with the buyer in this case (again, IMHO).

I'm curious how you find wavelength using an oscilloscope?

ElektroFreak said:

I'm curious how you find wavelength using an oscilloscope?

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Inquiring minds want to know . . . .

My offer to arbitrate (for the cost of shipping) stands. Here are a couple of more comparison shots

Orange -- Red




Peace,
dave

Im guessing he mens spectroscope (sp)

Yes, the wavelength was tested using an Ocean Optics USB4000 Spectrometer with integrating sphere.

robjdixon said:

Im guessing he mens spectroscope (sp)

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lol i had a brain fart... it was about 4am when i posted that.

Who's to say Ben isnt lieing about the wavelegnth ? has anyone else seen this spectrometer read out? or only him?

Like Daguin stated, send the laser to him to do a comparison shot.

oh and be careful what you post here, lil benny will give you a neg rep just because he deems your comment rude, when he is extremely rude himself.

i dont have money to buy my rep points like he does.

Arenared said:

i dont have money to buy my rep points like he does.

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I had no idea it worked that way. In that case, I've got 5 rep points for sale or trade for a decent green laser.. Any takers? All I've ever wanted is my own greenie!

Im glad I was a part of you learning something new . .