BHWOLLEN: Negative transaction

This is my first post on LPF. I have been a member and active buyer for approximately nine months. I have bought items from Jayrob, Daquin, DTR, Wannaburn, Mohrenberg, Steviediez, Sparkles. All of these transactions where trouble free. If the item was gonna be delayed, I was informed up-front.

On June 6, I sent bhwollen $350 via pay pal for a 1.8W Saik build. I have not received the item. The latest email I received was on June 25 and it went like this:

"There has been some further complications with your laser. It is still having some issues, so there are one of three options...
-You can wait a little longer, unsure how much longer, could be a week or less.
-I have another laser, same power and everything, but runs off of two smaller batteries so it has shorter battery life. I will ship you this asap with 4 batteries. If you are interested I will send you this laser and refund $75. Let me know if you would like pictures.
-I sell the laser stated above to somebody else, then refund your money."

How about, you send me my money back immediately because you are unable to deliver as advertised. Needless to say, disappointing...


I am editing my original post per request of an LPF member who is both a senior moderator and an individual with whom I've had several positive transactions with in the past.

I received the item as advertised on July 19. I was satisfied with the quality of the build as well as the included battery and Ultrafire charger (and I promptly relayed this information to BHWOLLEN via personal email). I remain unsatisfied with BHWOLLEN's business practices for several reasons. I pp'd the requested funds on June 6 and did not receive the item until July 19. I consider this to be an unacceptable delay given the item was advertised as available and I had planned accordingly. BHWOLLEN accepted my pp transfer, offered a string of excuses for not shipping the item, and refused to refund me in full. Thus, I was forced to file a pp complaint and freeze the funds as I feared I was being scammed.

I am sympathetic to the fact that BHWOLLEN may have had personal issues that interfered with the transaction and I attest to the quality of the final product. Nevertheless, BUSINESS is BUSINESS and of the many transactions I have had with members of LPF, this was the worst (note: public post count and forum facilitated transactions are independent variables). I would not order from BHWOLLEN again and I would discourage others from doing so, based on his poor business practices (which by the way, reek of a 16 year-old kid selling builds out of his bedroom in his parent's house).

You have 45 days from the day that you made a PayPal
payment to open a Dispute/Claim if the Seller does not
deliver the purchased goods or does not refund your
money before that deadline...

BTW... welcome to the Forum....
A Welcome post would have been nice for your
first post....

Jerry

Looks like he's just trying to give you some alternatives to cover his mistake, and thats OK.

Did you ask for your money back?

BH is probably not intending to do anything wrong here. However, IMO, option 4 should very clearly have been to refund your money.

I would suggest asking him for that directly, before filing a paypal dispute. You've got a bit of time, so why not just ask for a refund?

Tech_Junkie said:

Looks like he's just trying to give you some alternatives to cover his mistake, and thats OK.

Did you ask for your money back?

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I agree with TJ and rhd. Not defending anything here but nobody's perfect & it seems he's trying to make up for something not working out on his part. Stay in touch with him on the matter & get it settled before calling fraud & taking possibly unnecessary, adversarial action IMO :beer:

Hello guys, I haven't been around much because I am dealing with a loss in the family and had to go out of town. I tried to make contact as fast as possible with him, and offered him these three options as the laser was not working properly when I tested it before shipment. I don't have the money to refund him so that is why I was asking him about the other laser. If he wanted his money back, I would have sold to somebody else. I am about the reply to the last email he sent me which was yesterday.

Sorry, for the confusion...

I have dealt with bhwollen before, and have one of his builds that we negotiated a deal for (review coming soon). In my dealings with him he was upfront and honest, he is certainly is not looking to screw people over.

I also commissioned the build that I received from him, but it was agreed that I would send payment (in my case another item) when the laser was completed and ready to ship. This process took a couple of weeks due to the fact that some of the parts had to be ordered which he was also upfront about, and we both agreed on the wait. Maybe in the future it would be wise on both accounts to not exchange any money until the final product is working and ready for shipment. best regards, -Matt

Yeah, Bhwollen is a very upfront fella. But, BH, it wasn't that bright to sell something, receive money, spend money (or however you lost the money) before you got the product to him

Had to use it to get to a sick relative....

Wolfman29 said:

Yeah, Bhwollen is a very upfront fella. But, BH, it wasn't that bright to sell something, receive money, spend money (or however you lost the money) before you got the product to him

Click to expand...

I suppose that's a good reason (one of the few). By the way, sorry for your loss.

bhwollen said:

Had to use it to get to a sick relative....

Click to expand...

Wolfman29 said:

I suppose that's a good reason (one of the few). By the way, sorry for your loss.

Click to expand...

I'm also sorry for your loss. That's always rough to go through.

I also have to agree with Wolfman on the general point he made - ie with respect to future transactions. Other people that may be reading this thread. It's just generally a bad idea to take payment ahead of actually having an item created. I really can't think of many situations where this is a good idea. - Perhaps a really custom item that wouldn't have value except to the person commissioning it. But for a 445 laser, considering the vast number of 445 lasers moving through these forums constantly, I just don't know that it makes any sense for buyers/sellers to exchange money ahead of goods actually being available.

The laser was available but there were problems with it while it was being tested before shipping...

Whilst I sympathise with BH's situation, $350 is a LOT of money, and I can understand why the OP is concerned.

If they can reach an amicable solution then thats great, if not, then you may be forced to open a PP case, you have 45 days from the origonal transaction date IIRC.

Yep

I would be worried if my 350 dollars was in someone elses hands aswell

Its obvious that BH wasn't trying to harm anyone, I have been in his shoes trying to do ANYTHING possible to get to someone before its too late, and I'm sorry if it sounds rude, but if that means someone will be out some money for a little while extra, then so be it because they can be refunded at ANY time, a sick relative may be leaving for good... In all honesty If I was the buyer, I would be more than happy that I was able to help him get to his relative, life and saying goodbye when that time comes is more important than getting money or product in a timely fashion... I've missed the chance to say goodbye before and that is something you regret for a lifetime unlike being late for payment or product.

bhwollen: You did what you had to, I'm sorry for the loss, don't feel like you've done wrong by any means. Concentrate on recovering as much you can...

-Dustin

Also, I wanted to let you guys know I offered him a refund of $200 now, and the rest when I sell the alternate laser I offered, but he refused.