ALERT: Bad Selling Experience with "Electron"

electron said:

Bull crap buddy! You DID post that EXACT message in PP, I just copied it straight out of PP. Yes though you did also then send that message AFTER the one I just block copied out of PP resolution center.

Nothing more than STILL trying to strong-arm me into closing a dispute based on nothing more than a tracking number. At that point I wasn't going to trust you.
You could have just sent me anything with a tracking number and then you'd have your "proof" that I got the "replacement", not saying you would BUT at this point my blood was and is boiling over this, up until this time I was willing to keep it open as a dispute and hoping the package arrived, and I then could close the dispute. You were clear you wanted it closed, and until the laser arrived I was not going to do that at this point.

Had you offered me that "deal" in your PM to do that, during the time-frame that PP allows and not insisting me to wait, I wouldn't have even open up a case with PP.

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I edited my comment a few moments after I posted it, to make it clear that I was calling you a LIAR with respect to your pretending you escalated based on that earlier PM.

You're dancing around the issue here. You had 20 days to turn the dispute from a "dispute" into a "claim".

December 2 (6:21 GMT) - You opened the "dispute".
December 2 (Throughout the Day) - We commented back and forth twice.
December 2 (15:15 GMT) - I posted my comment:

"I will ship a replacement tomorrow or monday, with tracking. - I will add that tracking number to Paypal for verification. - If you still persist in not closing this dispute, I will escalate this dispute to a claim, and allow Paypal to review the information submitted, and arrived at a just conclusion."

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December 2 (15:31 GMT) - You escalated to a "claim".

There's no way to dance around this -
15 minutes after I told you that I was going to get a tracked replacement out to you the next day, you escalated to a claim.

Get it through your thick skull, I already posted that you did post that 2nd message too AND I rejected your offer by escalating it to a dispute. You went back and edited your post to save face here...I'm not 10 yrs old either......Epic FAIL.

electron said:

Get it through your thick skull, I already posted that you did post that 2nd message too AND I rejected your offer by escalating it to a dispute. You went back and edited your post to save face here...I'm not 10 yrs old either......Epic FAIL.

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You said you based your escalation on my statement:
"If the buyer will close this Paypal dispute, I will then ship a replacement item."

I'm not disputing I worded it that way early on. I had to look back and double check, but you're right - initially that's how I phrased it. Don't criticize me for editing posts 3 minutes after I write them here. I realized that the way I worded my post was not the way I intended it to come across, and I fixed that. Focus on the issue.

The quote above: "If the buyer will close this Paypal dispute, I will then ship a replacement item."
That was an earlier comment, towards the beginning of our discussion. As we got further into the process of discussion, I unequivocally offered to ship you a replacement, tracked, BEFORE having you close the dispute. IE, while it remained open. This unequivocal offer is what IMMEDIATELY prompted you to escalate to a claim.

There's nothing cryptic here. The final stage of discussion, 15 minutes before you escalated the claim, was me telling you, that I planned to ship you a tracked replacement the next morning.

"I will ship a replacement tomorrow or monday, with tracking. - I will add that tracking number to Paypal for verification. - If you still persist in not closing this dispute, I will escalate this dispute to a claim, and allow Paypal to review the information submitted, and arrived at a just conclusion."

That comment is what immediately motivated you to escalate the dispute to a claim. Period.

You STILL don't get it, I said

"I rejected this because of the following:

"If the buyer will close this Paypal dispute, I will then ship a replacement item."

You then sent the 2nd message STILL trying to dictate to me how it was going to be "resolved" and then after I got the tracking # (not the package) you wanted it closed, or you would escalate it yourself. What part of this don't you get by trying to twist it around? Again had you offered this originally in the PM I would have accepted and I already told you that. That's the crust of the problem, you kept trying to dictate how it was to be "resolved".

Keep trying, I'm sitting right here and following this nonsense, I've got plenty of time this evening, finally.

Edit:
I didn't actually close this at that exact moment I stated I rejected your offer, I actually did wait for a reply from you to see what else you had to say, and AGAIN you did the same thing trying to force me to do it only your way; otherwise I would have waited for the original laser you said you shipped. AGAIN after I read that first statement from you I made up my mind to escalate, but actually didn't pull the trigger yet, though I guess I shouldn't have given you one last chance to allow me to keep it open for the original laser to arrive. Stop focusing on the freakin wording, it doesn't change a thing you still tried to force me to close it and I wasn't allowing you to dictate to me. Hey I edited my post now too instead of posting a new message like you should do trying to make your post come across differently.

Dance around the issues all you want, but the language of my final Paypal message is right there, and it's very clear.

I told you that a replacement and a tracking number to accompany it would be sent in your direction the next day. This is THE MOST you could expect of a seller. By that point, I wasn't asking you to wait any longer, I wasn't asking you to close the Paypal dispute before I sent a second item, I wasn't asking for insurance money to come through first, I wasn't asking for you to contribute, or even toss in a few bucks to pay for shipping. I had given in, capitulated,, I offered to provide you with the fullest remedy I could - a complete replacement, sent to you with fast trackable shipping the very next day.

15 minutes later, you escalated the dispute to a claim to prevent this.

Let's try it this way then, this is a block copy from PP resolution center; no more who said what & when;

View dispute comments

• 12/2/2011 12:31 PST - PayPal: Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.
• 12/2/2011 12:31 PST - Buyer: In that case since you are bent on ruining my online rep and now threaten to escalate this dispute, I can see that I can no longer do business with you and therefore would have no way to know what ever you should to me would even work at this point; so NO I can't accept that. You told everyone on the forum not to do business with me, and like wise I can't do business with you. File your insurance claim with the carrier, I'm done with you and all the bad mouthing you are doing on a public forum about me.
• 12/2/2011 12:15 PST - Seller: You're correct about the Paypal response timing. That was my error. I had typed a response, hit "Post Message", and then didn't realize that there was a second confirmation screen. I had though I had sent the message many hours ago, but I was mistaken. And you'll notice that I actually EDIT - corrected this part of my comment in the public thread you referred to. You commented that: "Now you say something different about shipping to me" I don't believe I have ever said anything different about shipping. I have consistently said the same thing (which is the truth). I shipped your package the very next day after payment was received, using a non-trackable service that DOES provide shipping confirmation, though apparently not tracking. The delivery standard is 4 to 6 weeks for ground parcel. At any rate, I am going to proceed as follows: - I will ship a replacement tomorrow or monday, with tracking. - I will add that tracking number to Paypal for verification. - If you still persist in not closing this dispute, I will escalate this dispute to a claim, and allow Paypal to review the information submitted, and arrived at a just conclusion.
• 12/2/2011 12:03 PST - Buyer: The package still has not arrived, and orders from China placed after this order from other sellers have already arrived. My local PO tells me after 30 days they would consider this MIA. In additionally I only have 45 days to do anything about this and I already explained that to you. So you would have had me not have any recourse on this after this time period expired. Now you say something different about shipping to me again, and at the same time post badly about me on a public forum, while I tried to handle this matter between the two of us. Because of that, I don't find this agreeable. You even post I have even answered the paypal message, you I didn't the notice until 2:40pm; check with paypal that's when I got the message and here I am 20mins later replying, it obvious what your are attempting to do.
• 12/2/2011 11:39 PST - Seller: The package was shipped with standard ground parcel to the US from Canada. The delivery standard is 4-to-6 weeks, and that is a "standard" from CanadaPost, not a "guarantee". The shipping method that the buyer paid for, ground parcel, is not trackable. However, it does provide me with a proof of shipment receipt, showing the recipient's address, a description of the goods for customs purposes, and a stamp from the post office confirming that shipment occurred. I have scanned this proof of shipment, and will provide those files to Paypal at their request. I note that we are only now at the 4 week mark. We are not even at the outer bound of the expected delivery standard, which is 6 weeks. My proposal is the following: - If the buyer will close this Paypal dispute, I will then ship a replacement item. - However, the buyer must agree to ship one of the two items back to me when (or if) the original as well as the replacement arrive.
• 12/2/2011 03:21 PST - Buyer: This item still has not yet arrived.

View case history

• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Case closed
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Refund issued
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Refund initiated
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Case under review
• Dec 5, 2011 - PayPal: Case under review
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Seller: Tracking information received
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Buyer: Dispute escalated to claim
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Buyer: Dispute filed
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Buyer: Dispute filed

Back to Resolution Center

Before anyone takes issue - I'm 100% cool with him having posted that.

And I think if you read it again Electron, you'll understand why it so strongly suggests that you basically just wanted money.

BTW - for your own benefit, you might want to edit out those paypal hyperlinks. They might reference something private to your account - I'm not sure.

EDIT: Adding your quote to my reply, for posterity. (though minus hyperlinks)

electron said:

Let's try it this way then, this is a block copy from PP resolution center; no more who said what & when;

View dispute comments

• 12/2/2011 12:31 PST - PayPal: Buyer escalated this dispute to a Claim.
• 12/2/2011 12:31 PST - Buyer: In that case since you are bent on ruining my online rep and now threaten to escalate this dispute, I can see that I can no longer do business with you and therefore would have no way to know what ever you should to me would even work at this point; so NO I can't accept that. You told everyone on the forum not to do business with me, and like wise I can't do business with you. File your insurance claim with the carrier, I'm done with you and all the bad mouthing you are doing on a public forum about me.
• 12/2/2011 12:15 PST - Seller: You're correct about the Paypal response timing. That was my error. I had typed a response, hit "Post Message", and then didn't realize that there was a second confirmation screen. I had though I had sent the message many hours ago, but I was mistaken. And you'll notice that I actually EDIT - corrected this part of my comment in the public thread you referred to. You commented that: "Now you say something different about shipping to me" I don't believe I have ever said anything different about shipping. I have consistently said the same thing (which is the truth). I shipped your package the very next day after payment was received, using a non-trackable service that DOES provide shipping confirmation, though apparently not tracking. The delivery standard is 4 to 6 weeks for ground parcel. At any rate, I am going to proceed as follows: - I will ship a replacement tomorrow or monday, with tracking. - I will add that tracking number to Paypal for verification. - If you still persist in not closing this dispute, I will escalate this dispute to a claim, and allow Paypal to review the information submitted, and arrived at a just conclusion.
• 12/2/2011 12:03 PST - Buyer: The package still has not arrived, and orders from China placed after this order from other sellers have already arrived. My local PO tells me after 30 days they would consider this MIA. In additionally I only have 45 days to do anything about this and I already explained that to you. So you would have had me not have any recourse on this after this time period expired. Now you say something different about shipping to me again, and at the same time post badly about me on a public forum, while I tried to handle this matter between the two of us. Because of that, I don't find this agreeable. You even post I have even answered the paypal message, you I didn't the notice until 2:40pm; check with paypal that's when I got the message and here I am 20mins later replying, it obvious what your are attempting to do.
• 12/2/2011 11:39 PST - Seller: The package was shipped with standard ground parcel to the US from Canada. The delivery standard is 4-to-6 weeks, and that is a "standard" from CanadaPost, not a "guarantee". The shipping method that the buyer paid for, ground parcel, is not trackable. However, it does provide me with a proof of shipment receipt, showing the recipient's address, a description of the goods for customs purposes, and a stamp from the post office confirming that shipment occurred. I have scanned this proof of shipment, and will provide those files to Paypal at their request. I note that we are only now at the 4 week mark. We are not even at the outer bound of the expected delivery standard, which is 6 weeks. My proposal is the following: - If the buyer will close this Paypal dispute, I will then ship a replacement item. - However, the buyer must agree to ship one of the two items back to me when (or if) the original as well as the replacement arrive.
• 12/2/2011 03:21 PST - Buyer: This item still has not yet arrived.

View case history

• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Case closed
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Refund issued
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Refund initiated
• Dec 6, 2011 - PayPal: Case under review
• Dec 5, 2011 - PayPal: Case under review
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Seller: Tracking information received
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Buyer: Dispute escalated to claim
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Buyer: Dispute filed
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
• Dec 2, 2011 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
• Dec 2, 2011 - Buyer: Dispute filed

Back to Resolution Center

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I'm glad your cool with me posting it, as I really don't like doing that; but I'm tired of all the back & forth. If/when the package arrives I will REJECT the package and it will then be on it's way back to you. as long as I don't open it the local post office already told me I could bring back to them and it will be marked "REFUSED", that I don't need to be concerned if I come home & find it in my mailbox; naturally they stressed don't open it.

Beyond this, I think we are just going to have to agree on disagreeing with each other; what more can be said that 5 pages didn't already cover :undecided:

That sucks dude, I hope you get it resolved

electron said:

I'm glad your cool with me posting it, as I really don't like doing that; but I'm tired of all the back & forth. If/when the package arrives I will REJECT the package and it will then be on it's way back to you. as long as I don't open it the local post office already told me I could bring back to them and it will be marked "REFUSED", that I don't need to be concerned if I come home & find it in my mailbox; naturally they stressed don't open it.

Beyond this, I think we are just going to have to agree on disagreeing with each other; what more can be said that 5 pages didn't already cover :undecided:

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Agreed.

Though might I make one request. If it does actually arrive, instead of taking it back to the post office and just tossing it into the system again, untracked, could you instead take the package (you don't have to open it), properly address it back to me, and then ship it back to me with some sort of trackable service ?

I think the potential for even further dispute would be greatly lessened by that

I live in Oklahoma and bought a 1.25w 445 from rhd. Took exactly five weeks wich was long yeah but completely fine with it. I just kept a correspondence back and forth so we both knew what was up after it hit a month. In my opinion that is the only way to handle the situation until the timeframe for shipping is up. Thank you rhd and I hope your dispute works out.

Both Of you guys just need to calm down and not jump to conclusions, I agree with both of you so far,
1. You shouldnt have filed a dispute in the first place.. and you should not escalate it further..
2. You should wether or not you recieve the item in all circumstances preserve each others repute.
3. We are peaceful people and I believe no one is trying to prove anything, just being selfish a little.. and that is perfectly normal but let it go for now until 44th day.
3. We are adults , i mean come on! Just be friends already, dont treat another person like a buyer/seller all the time, we share a lot in common here, those postal services are the root cause because of the distance in locations you "had to" use them..

electron said:

Still trying to stir the pot here Ehh Jerry:gun:

I rejected this because of the following:

"If the buyer will close this Paypal dispute, I will then ship a replacement item."

That is clearly advised not to do, regardless of anything you have to say about it Jerry. I'm very sure after reading a lot of your stuff over the years, you'll come back with something sarcastic.:tinfoil:

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Nothing to do with stirring the pot. That post was not addressed to you...
It was in response to RHDs post... It can be interpreted as I outlined.

Sorry to disappoint you.. you seem to be doing fine on your own...:crackup:
FWIW... I also would never deal with you..... I've heard too many
horror stories about your dealings...:beer:


BTW... your continued Double Posting is getting annoying..
You can easily Edit your posts using the [EDIT] button under
your posts.

SRESAL said:

This is just nonsense...

Why do you suppose FedEx makes those stick-on plastic sleeves then

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This post got me to do some tests in the shop this morning...
We have about 7 different PS2.. RS232 and USB Hand Held
Barcode scanners in the shop from a previous project.

I scanned a Canada Post PayPal generated shipping label
printed on standard printer paper with all of them.

I then put the label into a plastic Zip Lock bag and scanned
the Barcode again with all of them.
Then I put 2 layers of clear tape over the Zip Lock bag and
scanned the barcode again with all of them....

I'm sorry to say that I was wrong...:yabbem: In each case above the
7 BarCode scanners I have in the Shop were all able to read
the barcode in each test...

From now on I'll just tape over the entire label...

Previous post will be updated...
Thanks for getting me to do the tests....


Jerry

Yea I would never ever send you any $$$ Jerry after buying that crap lpm-1 was it called that back then? that you were pushing on fleebay years ago. I couldn't even give that stupid thing away after getting stuck with it, lesson learned real quick.
Forward years later, you asked me if I would calibrate one of your lpm's against my top-of-line professional commercial meter. :wtf:

electron said:

Yea I would never ever send you any $$$ Jerry after buying that crap lpm-1 was it called that back then? that you were pushing on fleebay years ago. I couldn't even give that stupid thing away after getting stuck with it, lesson learned real quick.
Forward years later, you asked me if I would calibrate one of your lpm's against my top-of-line professional commercial meter. :wtf:

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There you go Bull$htting again trying to pull the wool over the
eyes of the members here.....
Your mommy must be so proud....

You NEVER bought a LaserBee from me nor would I sell you one.
Get your facts straight... The LPM-1 that you have in your Sig...
comes from Andover...

Why don't you show us a pic of the LaserBee I with a piece of paper
that has your LPF Username and today's date on it that I sold you.
And by all means tell the members here the Serial Number of that
mystery LaserBee..

D4thing Laser Meter (3W's max), Andover Holography LPM-1, Optic kits, and Certified Safety Glasses for Green, Red & Blue Lasers.

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Oh yeah I remember me asking you to check a new LaserBee product
against your New LabMax for a fee... but you would only do it if I gave
you a >$300.00 Deluxe LaserBee for ~15 minutes of work...
That quickly fizzled out because of your Greed....


Jerry

Try and control yourself Jerry, I said "lpm-1 was it called that back then that you were pushing on fleebay years ago"

Has nothing to do with any of the Meters in my sig, those all are great thank you very much. :beer:

I was referring to the very first photocell based gizmo you sold back then with those pigtail wires to a DMM.

Geezz why are some people way up north so thick headed? Must be the extreme cold weather. :crackup: